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Old 06-02-2015, 04:09 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
if by low you mean under 2% then **** yeah I'd do a 72 month loan.
That's what I did on my current car.
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:43 PM   #77
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if by low you mean under 2% then **** yeah I'd do a 72 month loan.
I did 65 months @ 1.24% and 1.49% in the past year. Cheap money is good, and I can certainly put it to better use elsewhere.
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Old 06-02-2015, 10:51 PM   #78
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But I'm sure you could get a 72 month loan at a "low rate" and get those payments to like $100/mo. You, too, can afford a new miata!
Ah, the modern American dream.
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Old 06-03-2015, 03:34 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Then you don't have the money for a new car to begin with
strike 1.

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Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Ah, the modern American dream.
strike 2.
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Old 06-03-2015, 06:25 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
Well, the embargo is over and C&D hit 60 in 5.9 sec in the US spec Miata, Motor Trend's took 5.8:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ub-test-review
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rz_comparison/

That makes the new car a half second at least faster than the NC, and IMHO officially fast enough. Might very well be my WRX replacement when the time comes...
Uh... Anyone else see this post?

0-60 in 5.8, 1/4 mile in 14.5 at 95mph, Street of Willow in 1:29.91. It bested the BRZ in all three.

That's...uh... really goddamn quick for a stock Miata. Even with the lower curb weight, it sounds like those are a very healthy 155 horses. Could be SkyActive is helping put it to the ground too.

Last edited by Skunkers; 06-03-2015 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:51 AM   #81
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I saw that post...

Yea, very healthy 155 horses. I suspect the performance is due to the "area under the curve" of the Skyactiv's broad power band, though I'm sure a low friction drivetrain helps too.

We've seen this kind of thing a lot recently. The "240 hp" 228i is within a whisker of the same speed as the old 333 hp E46 M3.
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Old 06-03-2015, 02:25 PM   #82
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Just to put that into perspective, a 1998 BMW M3 Convertible is listed as 5.9 zero-to-sixty and 14.3 in the quarter.

Witchcraft.
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Old 06-03-2015, 04:28 PM   #83
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strike 1.







strike 2.

Feel free to let me know which part you disagree with
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Old 06-03-2015, 05:42 PM   #84
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Just to put that into perspective, a 1998 BMW M3 Convertible is listed as 5.9 zero-to-sixty and 14.3 in the quarter.

Witchcraft.
It could be witchcraft, but I'm wondering if they are shipping car magazines ringers. Call me old, but under 6 seconds to 60mph is a fast street car in my book.
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Old 06-03-2015, 05:55 PM   #85
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Mazda isn't Ferrari... sheesh.
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Old 06-03-2015, 07:24 PM   #86
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It could be witchcraft, but I'm wondering if they are shipping car magazines ringers. Call me old, but under 6 seconds to 60mph is a fast street car in my book.
Maybe Mazda is repenting for past sins by actually UNDER rating instead of OVER rating HP like they have in the past.

I recall a car magazine stating (years ago) that their definition of "fast" was a car that traps the 1/4 mile in the 90's. Today, if a full-size pickup can't do that, it is considered an under-powered turd... living in a golden age.
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Old 06-04-2015, 08:48 AM   #87
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Everyone ships "special" cars to magazine reviews. Not quite the white-glove custom tuned cars Ferrari supplies, but they'll all get fresh tires, fresh brakes, fresh alignment, double-checked for all the latest and greatest software and calibration updates, etc.

I didn't think my NA Miata was slow, and it wasn't under 6 seconds to 60. It was likely a little quicker than stock as Hondaslappy put a lightweight flywheel on it before I bought it. Still, I'm looking forward to taking a new Miata for a drive. Probably going to order the Club edition. I think it looks great.
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Old 06-04-2015, 12:43 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
Well, the embargo is over and C&D hit 60 in 5.9 sec in the US spec Miata, Motor Trend's took 5.8:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ub-test-review
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...rz_comparison/

That makes the new car a half second at least faster than the NC, and IMHO officially fast enough. Might very well be my WRX replacement when the time comes...
Meh. The $400 road tune I had done on my NC probably puts it on par with the ND. And it's easy enough to find extremely low mile NCs out there. "Adding lightness" is a cool trick they performed on the new Miata, but it's not enough to make me want to trade mine in.

I'm not being down on the ND at all, I just can't muster up too much excitement about it.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:06 PM   #89
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Meh. The $400 road tune I had done on my NC probably puts it on par with the ND. And it's easy enough to find extremely low mile NCs out there. "Adding lightness" is a cool trick they performed on the new Miata, but it's not enough to make me want to trade mine in.

I'm not being down on the ND at all, I just can't muster up too much excitement about it.
No reason you should trade a perfectly good NC. The ND is undoubtedly evolution, not revolution, but the actual performance should shut up all the naysayers who thought the ND would be slower than the NC with "only" 155 hp.

Quote:
I recall a car magazine stating (years ago) that their definition of "fast" was a car that traps the 1/4 mile in the 90's. Today, if a full-size pickup can't do that, it is considered an under-powered turd... living in a golden age.
Very true. The brick-on-wheels Ford F150 with the one-step-up-from-fleet-truck Ecoboost 2.7 does 0-60 in under six seconds and traps 95 mph in the quarter mile. Just as quick as this Miata, and undoubtedly easier and less abusive to repeat given the automatic transmission and turbo torque curve.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:11 PM   #90
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Nshut up all the naysayers who thought the ND would be slower than the NC with "only" 155 hp.
I'd like to take this moment to point out I didn't care one way or the other if it was slower than the previous gen miata; I just care that it's slow, like the twins.

That said, this has practically the same skyactive engine my GF's mazda 3 does, which is a good thing. It's a nice engine; move the 3 just fine. I never expect the miata to become a performance car with actual balls; I just want it to, since mazda seems intent on not making any actual performance vehicles any more in the fashion I want (rwd coupe).

It's like there isn't a single foreign company that wants to tango with the american GT coupes. The two that I can think of that try fail hard (370z and genesis coupe).
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:17 PM   #91
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It's like there isn't a single foreign company that wants to tango with the american GT coupes. The two that I can think of that try fail hard (370z and genesis coupe).
Not head to head.

Right now they are too hard to even get even with, much less beat. So it's best to go the markets above and below them.

or take a different approach like lightweight handlers.
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Old 06-04-2015, 02:01 PM   #92
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One of the interesting things about a Miata is that it doesn't have "high performance" or "race inspired" or anything else competitive as one of its primary design goals. This means that when they do get slightly faster, it was a secondary goal or it was a side effect of some other design/engineering decision. Mazda knows that they just need to keep to the original formula so they don't ruin it.

Think of all the 2-seater sports cars that have come and gone since 1989.

The downside is that they are always competing with the used Miata market. A good problem to have.
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Old 06-04-2015, 02:13 PM   #93
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or take a different approach like lightweight handlers.
That's exactly what I'd like to see, but as it is, all these lightweight cars still need a bump in power to be competitive. I'd buy a 30k+ jap car what had the same HP/Weight ratio as a mustang GT, albeit much smaller (even an actual 2 seater!)and lighter. I don't need utility; my fiance has that covered. I suppose I already have the car I'm looking for, in the form of my s2000, but I'd love the opportunity to buy a new, modernized s2000. I love my track car, but it's not the same as the experience I have with the EVO which can only come from being the original and only owner throughout the car's whole life.

^That highly illogical side of me that I can't seem to shake

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Old 06-04-2015, 02:18 PM   #94
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Think of all the 2-seater sports cars that have come and gone since 1989.
I can think of plenty that have also been actually better cars. I'm an avid believer, based on past history experiences, that the best performance cars are the ones companies lose money on. They come up every so often as an exhibition of a company's ability, knowing full well they'll likely just break even, and often end up losing money. Then those cars die and it's another eon before some enterprising, enthusiastic person comes along in the company and somehow swindles the purse string holders into thinking "maybe it will work this time!"

It will never be a good idea, but I applaud them every time they manage to do it. I get cool things that way
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Old 06-04-2015, 05:37 PM   #95
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they'll all get fresh tires, fresh brakes, fresh alignment, double-checked for all the latest and greatest software and calibration updates, etc.
Shouldn't that be what you get when you buy a brand new car fresh from the factory anyway? I mean, I know some cars come with wonky alignments and stuff, but all of the above is what *should* happen. Maybe I live in a dream world

The new design is really growing on me
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Old 06-05-2015, 09:22 AM   #96
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Shouldn't that be what you get when you buy a brand new car fresh from the factory anyway? I mean, I know some cars come with wonky alignments and stuff, but all of the above is what *should* happen. Maybe I live in a dream world

The new design is really growing on me
Yes you get those with any new car, but coming off the end of the assembly line with an alignment that is simply "in spec" is different from a media car with a very specific alignment done in one of the vehicle dynamics garages in Dearborn. Similarly the OEM brakes coming off the line are going to work just as they should, but something going to a media event might already have the pads and rotors bedded for ideal performance.

I know of a certain vehicle which will have a summer tire option. This option also adds a different cooling fan and I think different radiator. This option exists only to benefit media days where the car will see excessive, hard use and they need it to NOT overheat. 99% of buyers will never buy this package as they don't care about the summer tire option. It exists purely to help the car on media days.
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Old 06-05-2015, 03:32 PM   #97
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Yes you get those with any new car, but coming off the end of the assembly line with an alignment that is simply "in spec" is different from a media car with a very specific alignment done in one of the vehicle dynamics garages in Dearborn. Similarly the OEM brakes coming off the line are going to work just as they should, but something going to a media event might already have the pads and rotors bedded for ideal performance.
And we shouldn't be surprised that they do this. It's also very different from giving magazines a "ringer" the way Ferrari does. Any owner should be able to take their car to a good alignment shop, break it in carefully, and get the same car the magazines got. Also, even auto makers don't grab a new car off the line for every magazine test, they have a fleet of press cars. It's entirely reasonable to put the cars through tech inspection and rehab after each magazine gorilla has abused them.

On the other hand, giving magazines a car which does not really represent the product available to consumers is not cricket. It's a fine line that many manufacturers have tiptoed across in the past. Is that magazine alignment specified in the service manual, or does it include settings which affect handling balance which would not be achievable within the limits of the factory specs? Unless you go to a shop that knows and services autocross & track day enthusiasts, it's almost impossible to convince them to go outside the factory specs.

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I know of a certain vehicle which will have a summer tire option. This option also adds a different cooling fan and I think different radiator. This option exists only to benefit media days where the car will see excessive, hard use and they need it to NOT overheat. 99% of buyers will never buy this package as they don't care about the summer tire option. It exists purely to help the car on media days.
Does the summer tire option state clearly to a buyer that it also includes different radiator and cooling fan? If not, that really pushes the boundaries of ethical marketing. Speaking for myself here, I'd generally forgo the summer tire option and use the OEM wheels for the snow tires, then buy some good aftermarket summer wheels & tires. If I found out later that the seemingly overpriced summer tire option also included radiator and cooling fan, things of real value to me, I'd be pretty ticked off. It's the kind of thing we've come to expect from domestic brands but not from imports. That type of thing is the source of lots of the negative brand equity in the domestics. Sad to see it still going on.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:01 PM   #98
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Does the summer tire option state clearly to a buyer that it also includes different radiator and cooling fan? If not, that really pushes the boundaries of ethical marketing. Speaking for myself here, I'd generally forgo the summer tire option and use the OEM wheels for the snow tires, then buy some good aftermarket summer wheels & tires. If I found out later that the seemingly overpriced summer tire option also included radiator and cooling fan, things of real value to me, I'd be pretty ticked off. It's the kind of thing we've come to expect from domestic brands but not from imports. That type of thing is the source of lots of the negative brand equity in the domestics. Sad to see it still going on.
I believe it'll be called a "driver's package" or "black edition" or something stupid like that. I don't know if it'll specifically state anything about cooling upgrades. That's not my department. But what you've said is exactly what I expect to happen. Most won't tick the extra box for summer only tires and would instead buy a tire of their own choosing and mount them on some fancy new wheels. While the package shown for media events is a "real" option no one is going to ever buy it. On the other hand this isn't exactly a vehicle I expect anyone to take to the race track. It is a pretty fun car though, especially considering its size.
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:16 AM   #99
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Reminds me of the press Lincoln MKZ cars having Pilot Super Sports (iirc), when that's an option that precisely no real buyers would select.
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Old 06-06-2015, 09:31 PM   #100
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Pretty much exactly what I was talking about.
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