https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...s-a7824554938/

But, we don't listen to CR. Unless they say something negative about Subaru, right?

Subaru's reliability "issues" have always just been a fake news meme.

Not really that impressive when you still use ancient motors, AWD systems, and Fisher Price head units. A paper bag from the grocery store is pretty reliable unless you overload it with weight.

Well, that depends on who you're trying to impress, eh? I can easily say that 8 out of 10 of the people I interact with that are new to Subaru did so for two top reasons. Safety and longevity. Not necessarily answered in that order. Those that are returning customers say the same thing. Usually starting with the longevity reason, though. Do they care it's because of a 13 year old engine design? Why would they if they are getting the long lasting car they came for?
I do think, however, Subaru dodged a bullet after those years with all the recalls without taking much, if any, hit to their reputation. Which they may get hit in the used market in the coming years.

Subaru's true, core, loyal(very high customer retention) customers are loyal for a good reason. You say people buy cars because of "popularity". Is 4% of the total market a "popular" thing? This still goes back to my core debate. You can go get a more modern engine. A more modern AWD(that will overheat and leave ya stranded in the snow....for a time at least). State of the art head unit pumping a deafening awesomeness of sound. More MPG. MAYBE safer. But, you are not going to get ALL of that in ONE package at a price Subaru offers their car. You're going to pay more. The price is usually still more on an equally equipped direct competitor. And there will be a sacrifice of something to do it. It comes down to what you are willing to sacrifice. Don't mind a lesser AWD for few extra MPG? Or do you want a more capable car for a sacrifce of a "better" sound system(not arguing Subaru's is good. I'm not an audiofile and it's not "important" to me)?

Subaru has spent 1/5th of their existence offering something "fun"(subjective. My Justy in Japan was arguably as fun to me as my STi here. But, who here is going to call 58hp fun?) to a group that has tried to call themselves "loyal". Their definition of that word and mine are WAY different.

Where do get this bs? Because that’s utter and complete bs.

Which AWD system is going to overheat because of pedestrian snow driving again? Probably none, and that comment was pulled out of an orifice.

I have some neighbors, two ladies, married. Their BRZ had issue after issue and Subaru never could correct it. It went in for something and they fixed it but then gas smell was permanently present. Subaru never could fix it, so they sold it. Their Crosstek had some issues also but it was really the anemic motor they got tired of. So both were offloaded in favor of Toyota products. They swore by Subaru but one was problematic, the other was the engine for the most part and they are long gone from the brand like many of us here.

I never said people buy vehicles for popularity. I said most buyers buy for image, or for some capability the vehicle has, that they will never utilize.

The only reason (I can see...) that Subaru retains the top spot, is their legacy use of "Not broken, don't fix it" Parts Bin way of running things. Should a Hybrid be available with potential problems mirroring that of Toyota's Hybrids (Toyotas Tech), Subaru would for sure be Top 10, just not #1. New tech from non-sense Govt Regs (All Questionable Legal Wise, now that the Chevron Deference has been defeated), have caused automakers to make rapid changes in tech, whilst also saving money in production location and costs ( = Poor Quality Control - Toyota Tundra Engine Shavings Conundrum). Throw some new Hybrids in there.. well we'll see. What if they Retain #1 again next year? That would be interesting.

Subaru today is what Toyota was in the 2000s. Toyota would make the same crap every year, and then do appearance updates every few years and call it the “all new Camry.” Obviously reliability was good because they made the same garbage for over a decade, using the same outdated parts and tech. This is literally Subaru right now with every model.

Well, OK. I wasn't referencing pedestrian driving more so the overall capability. And I get that from comparison videos that(Driving Sports amongst others I'm not recalling at the moment), yes, are not the typical daily driving. BUT, Subaru still has the reputation OF capability whether a person uses it to its max or not. And that is a "sacrifice" Subaru makes versus more MPG. But, I'd wager a Subaru customer is more likely TO use it's capability. And I've heard many stories of how a person's Subaru DIDN'T get stuck where they had been stuck with other cars(likely not AWD) and even ones where their 4WD trucks had got stuck and their Subaru didn't. Small stories. Here and there. Reputation. OK. Not "popularity".......but, "image". What kind of "image" does Subaru have? Just yesterday had a customer say to me why she came from Toyota to Subaru. It was more for a change and friends had Subarus and loved them; but, even said she guesses she now has to become a lesbian. SURELY she didn't come to Subaru because of that image. And, no, Subaru isn't perfect and I have seen several lemons over the years. I've seen Toyota lemons and my sister once had a Honda lemon. So? No company is perfect.

The perception of capability sells. But it is what it is, perception. They sell it, they market it, they made it into their image. But it's just a curtain. Their cars are no more capable than other similar brands. Anecdotally, I've driven 'round quite a few stuck Subaru's in my Toyota.

Reliable? Okay, whatever. They had to come out with a 10 year warranty on their transmission because it's not a long-term transmission, and not really serviceable. Is that "reliable"? Maybe for the throw-away society who buys a new car every 5 years.

Never said they "couldn't" get stuck; but, are certainly less likely to. And if we're JUST talking basic everyday AWD "needs"; sure, i'll say others are fine. But ultimately a RAV4 or a CRV are not keeping up with a Forester. Can't wait for the hybrids to come out and get compared. People will bitch and moan that a Subaru doesn't get the same MPG that a RAV4 hybrid gets but, that RAV4, in ANY condition will become 2WD when the traction battery is depleted. The Subaru will still be able to Subaru.



And that 10 year warranty? Pretty much for those older CVTs? Yeah. Give it some time and I can see that going away now that they are doing much better.



Throw away....every 5 years? You forgetting Subaru customers? Average 8-10 years of ownership. We've had numerous 10-14 year old trade ins in the last 2 months. A couple cash cars. Some sold used within 24-72 hours.

In a hybrid, the traction battery is not often depleted, it's just not a realistic thing to be scared of.

I'm still into all ICE mountain vehicles though. No desire for hybrid, which is where I feel like the highlander awd system is pretty darn good.

The past 10-15 years, Subaru's grew really quickly and definitely took a hit in reliability. In 2017, Subaru made a concerted effort to work towards fixing its quality issues. There's lag in realizing those actions. Subaru is now seeing the fruit of its labor. SBR's new CEO was the person in charge of fixing quality. Subaru's recalls are way down from decade's long run of abnormally high (for the brand) recalls.

There's no such thing as a perfectly reliable brand anymore. Every brand's vehicles are more complex than ever and everyone has issues. Subaru is currently the brand with the least amount of issues.

Well said and especially the bolded part IMO. Toyota is supposed to be the reliability king, ask any "regular" person (non-car people) what brand is the most reliable and they will probably say Toyota. Yet Toyota has been plagued with issues over the last few years, some of which are pretty damn major (Cablegate, Tundra/Lexus LX motors exploding, etc.).

Pick a brand, any brand, and you will find issues. Subaru has come a long way and while they've gotten a lot better, they still have some issues (although I would definitely say more minor issues vs. inherent design flaws as previous). As always it's up to the consumer to do their own research so that they know what they're getting into and are aware of potential issues down the line. Unfortunately not everyone does this and many folks still just buy blindly based on brand name alone. That's why Toyota still sells so well and they still get away with something as asinine as not letting a customer spec and order their own vehicle.

Hmm. Maybe, but, back with the XV Crosstrek Hybrid, we had customers come in for service with the battery "dead". The ONE time I got to drive a Crosstrek PHEV(bribed the owner)........battery dead. VERY frustrating. Now, I am one person. IS it "uncommon" for the traction battery to be depleted? I'd hope so. But, I also would think YOU are thinking in just every day driving. I'm talking getting it off pavement and having what I call fun. At some point, I would wager a RAV4 battery not being regen'd enough to stay with charge having to help out soo much. Thus bringing it to the 2WD stage. The Forester Hybrid is going to perform even better than any previous Forester while the battery is useful, then........STILL be useful when IT'S battery is depleted. If a customer doesn't want to "Subaru", then a Subaru hybrid certainly isn't the best option. Then......shopping a Subaru was a waste of time to begin with. But, if you still want to be able to "Subaru", they you will be able to.....with a Subaru.

I'm not really sure a hybrid is a place to be if you're looking for off-road chomps, imo. It's just simply not what they're designed to do. Subaru, Jeep, whatever, doesn't matter.

But regardless, a "dead" hybrid battery is a failed powertrain - IE lacks reliability. Hybrids are designed to never let the battery fully deplete, the engine should always be pumping power into the battery to keep it charged for use. I believe for Toyotas if the hybrid battery is "dead", the car is undrivable, you need to have it towed to a shop.

Exactly. The whole point of a hybrid is the battery is never dead. The ICE starts and the system will go motor to motor through the battery if needed to move the vehicle until there is enough charge in the battery to run in EV mode.

I could see if the system control wise was stuck in series mode you could only use the battery to power the motor(s) to move. However, the ICE should still kick-in and start you moving after some time of the other motor charging the battery.

Toyotas are parallel systems and should still move. Sounds odd.

Peace,

Greg

I, for one, am happy that Subaru is *mostly* sticking with parts known to work. The alternative is new and expensive parts that fail in new and expensive ways.

Toyota's hybrids use the battery to power the rear and gas to power the front. There are times when the battery needs to charge, so the vehicle is fwd only. Subaru's implementation has been to integrate the electric motor with the transmission so that all power is available to all wheels regardless of where that power is generated. They are still AWD even with the battery in regen. It's also AWD in EV mode. The RAV4 is not AWD in either scenario.

That's fine. But, Subaru has a reputation for being "capable". Soooooo, if I'm going to want a hybrid, AND still use my Subaru the way I'd like, they make what I want(will be anyway).



As for "dead" battery, I was using that just as a term. It may still have had a charge and not completely dead; but, at no time did the car drive in EV mode. That's what I'm getting at along with SoDealer's explanation. When I am going to explore off pavement, I don't want to have to worry. And I never will with a Subaru. That's what Subaru will be providing.

Off pavement? What does that mean exactly? I go off pavement, and a bunch of people I know. We aren’t in Subarus either. SXS, ATV, MX. When I do it I’m on a 450 4 stroke, in full gear. What I see “off pavement” is vehicles from the powersports store. You’ll see some Jeeps, maybe a Taco, and they are usually banged up in one way or another. Don’t see Subarus. Perhaps you are referring to lifestyle/image off pavement which consists of some chintzy dirt road.

Are they making their own new hybrid system? Or still using Toyota's?

Ask me again when the details have been officially released; cause, there will be misunderstandings and semantics involved.

So... Toyota.

Very curious about how they're going to differentiate themselves when they're hamstrung by buying another manufacturer's system.

Toyota quality has nosedived since the pandemic. And their cars are more expensive than the competitors. I wouldn’t buy one - maybe a GRC or a Supra with the 3.0 but I would never touch any of their trucks or plain Jane offerings. Big ripoff.