STI vs WRX suspension Question

[IJust8Chris]

Is it even possible to make a standard WRX handle at least NEARLY as well as the 2004 EVO or the 2004 STI... without spending a Grip of money?

Im wondering if a WRX with bolt on suspension mods like coilovers or Strut/plate/Spring inserts will ever handle like an STI?

It seems like the WRX is obsolete compared to all the new Gadgets like the DCCD and AYC and such...

With the DCCD, it seems like the STI can kick the tail loose and even slide through corners in and out of apexes... I would LOVE to do that in a normal WRX...

Is that possible without having to spend thousands of dollars to add a center differential to my car?

I know this is a noob question but i would appreciate any advice!


makes me wanna trade in my car for an STI... hehe

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[Mark Avery]

There's a reason they put that stuff on an STi - it's better. There's a reason they don't put in on a WRX - $$$. Every car is a compromise, the STi just a lot less than the others.

That said, a WRX can be made to handle very well. Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?

-Mark

[buster]

The STI Suspension costs $825 per corner Canadian. After riding in a STI, I know why it is so much.
BTW, will a 04 STI Strut and spring bolt right into a 02 WRX??

[cnk]

You can make any car handle the way you want it if you're willing to spend the money. I've got Cusco Zero 2R coilovers, Cusco front and rear strut bars, Cusco rear sway set at 23mm, Perrin Endlinks, and 17" SSR Comps with Falken Azenis ST-115 tires. My car handles exactly the way I want it to now, but I paid for that handling. Corners like it's on rails, yet I can break the end loose if I want or 4-wheel drift the car through a turn.

It all depends on what your idea of a lot of money is. The Cusco Zero 2R's and rim/tire combination above will cost around $4k alone.

Calvin

[dorifto88]

Originally posted by buster
The STI Suspension costs $825 per corner Canadian. After riding in a STI, I know why it is so much.
BTW, will a 04 STI Strut and spring bolt right into a 02 WRX??

YES

[z3coupe]

It all depends on what your idea of a lot of money is. The Cusco Zero 2R's and rim/tire combination above will cost around $4k alone.

Well, not completely. I still have my Zero2 GDA coilovers for sale for $800. Too bad he missed out on my OZ Superlegeras and Azenis tires and MRT rear swaybar. He could have had it all for about half that price.

[buster]

Originally posted by dorifto88


YES

Sweet... thanks!

[dbarnblatt]

For MY 02 and 03 Subaru had (and might still have) a complete suspension kit available that effectively installs on the WRX (suspension wise) exactly the same components found on the STi. For the sedan the kit includes:

Smaller front swaybar
Aluminum control arms
Stiffer springs
Inverted struts
Rear crossmember bushings
Rear transverse link bushings

It really tightens up the WRX and it is so much fun to drive! Expect to pay about $2000 including a hefty installation charge for labor. The rear bushings are ALOT of work.

[jimb]

What a silly question. The answer is a resounding *YES*. In fact, I'd wager a guess and say that there are very very many WRXs around that will simply stomp all over an STI in power, handling, and breaking. STI does not involve any expensive magic pixy dust coating of their cars, despite what STI owners may think..

Simple answer, remove STI suspension, bolt suspension to WRX. You now have a WRX that will handle identically to an STI (I'll throw a disclaimer in here about 'Almost handling as well', you can't discount the effects on handling the fancy differentials will make).

jb

[thechickencow]

I've got AGX'es and RA springs, a rear sway bar, and better tires on 98 RS wheels. I've got up/dp (so I'm still lower on power), and I was almost identical time wise to a good driver in their STi at the last autox, the other STi's with newer drivers were slower. I've invested less than $700 into the suspension ($389 struts, $180 springs, $75 sway & endlinks), not counting wheels/tires and I think its comparable to a stock STi suspension.

tcc

[leecea]

...but I can see where the question is coming from. If you have a WRX and are looking at spending big money to improve it, would you be better off just trading for an STI?

Looking at my local region autoX results, only the top WRX and RS drivers are matching the Evo and STI times. Their cars are heavily modded STS or SM cars. To take my WRX to that level may cost more than trading for the STI and with the STI I would avoid warranty and insurance issues with all the mods.

Since I don't aspire to that level of performance, I'll stick with minor tweaks to my WRX and know that my car will never be that fast.

[gtguy]

Originally posted by buster
The STI Suspension costs $825 per corner Canadian. After riding in a STI, I know why it is so much.
BTW, will a 04 STI Strut and spring bolt right into a 02 WRX??

You'd need to change the rear strut tops to '02-spec tops, however.

Kevin

[buster]

Whoa, if you can point me to a better description or more info that would be awesome I will have this done within a month so I need to make it easy when the time comes. What makes them different?
Couldn't I use the strut tops from my existing setup?

[ha-evolution]

Originally posted by jimb
Simple answer, remove STI suspension, bolt suspension to WRX. You now have a WRX that will handle identically to an STI jb

What about the additional front chassis stiffening? What about the different front suspension geometry? The STi is NOT just a WRX with upgraded shocks and springs no matter how much some WRX owners would like to think it is.

[buster]

What is so different then?
Let's all agree though, "almost" as good is very realistic.

[ha-evolution]

It's not vastly different but there are more differences than simply changing a few suspension pieces. I already pointed out two of them.

All this is not to say a WRX can't be made to handle better than an STi. I'm merely contesting simplistic statements which are not true.

[jimb]

Can you provide us with some real information about what additional stiffening was done and what suspension geometry differences there are? I mean, if the struts/springs are essentially identical (can be swapped between both cars), I can't imagine any significant suspension differences between the cars if these parts can be swapped easily (i.e. if the suspension geometry was so significantly different as to make for a huge performance increase how could the springs and struts still be identically bolt-compatible between the two cars). Hell, if indeed there are, the differences are probably in the control arms, ok, so swap those as well. Problem solved. As far as front end 'stiffening' goes, throw on a strut tower bar and a chassis underbrace, there you go you'll likely be just as stiff (again totally subjective).

Or, throw on a set of decent coilovers along with some nice camber plates, and a decent set of race rubber. You now have a car that'll outhandle anything but an STI with a set of decent coilovers, some nice camber plates, and a decent set of race rubber..

Again, I find it hard to believe there are any significant differences in suspension except for the springs having a higher rate, and the struts offering higher damping.. I dunno, I'm a suspension newbie here, but c'mon, it's not like there is some fancy pants suspension in the STI.

jb

[z3coupe]

Suspension notwithstanding . . . . . . the STi will STILL spank a WRX. After having mine built for the new STX class and racing it for a year, and now just driving a stock STi - you can't overcome the lowend torque/power of the STi with suspenion only!!!!!! As most WRX's can not shift into 1st gear (mine now could after the trans was rebuilt with new updated parts!!!), coming out of a slow speed turn in 2nd was my biggest downfall. There was NOTHING there at all to get me going! But this STi is incredible! At almost any RPM, you have grunt to kick you back into your seat. Sure, you can add gobs of goodies to the WRX - but all they do is help the top end - more for track or drag racing.

So sure, the STi costs a WEE BIT MORE (if you get it for MSRP) than a WRX. But then you have one hell of a platform to build upon and make it even more than a WRX could ever be.

[dbarnblatt]

Originally posted by ha-evolution


What about the additional front chassis stiffening? What about the different front suspension geometry? The STi is NOT just a WRX with upgraded shocks and springs no matter how much some WRX owners would like to think it is.

The components are a simple bolt on option. The SPT kit has all you need. The "geometry" is a setting not a component. Additional front chasis stiffening is a strut tower bar (not on US models) or a lower brace which is an option only on all STi's and WRX's (overseas option only). The WRX and the STi are nearly identical suspension wise when WRX owners upgrade to the STi/SPT inverted suspension kit. In fact the STi/SPT suspension is even higher performance than what's found on the US spec STi... it is the Type RA set-up. Now brakes, engine and drivetrain... those are things the WRX will never come close to without HEAVY modification.

[z3coupe]

Another thing to think of, is if you will ever do something with your FREE SCCA membership. If you decide to try your hand at AutoX (Solo II or PRO Solo), then you are extremely limited to what you can do depending on what class you want to run in. There is an excellent discussion sticky in the motorsports section here.

Basically, if you want to run stock class, then shocks, cat back, and front swaybar (other than R compound tires) are all you are allowed. So here the stock STi would be the one.

If you want to modify it with suspension and a few items (NO TOUCHING THE BOOST though!), then STX is the class - but only the WRX is allowed due to the 2.0L and under forced induction rule.

Now, if money is no object, then the SM (Street Modified) class is for you and ANYTHING just about goes there. So you could soup up the WRX to near STi specs, but then why not modify a genuine STi and have an even better base to start with? Or even get an old model RS and plop a JDM WRX engine setup in it?

So for me, getting the STi was perfect! That and the fact that a LOT of local police are hassling any modified cars now. So to have a car that is near perfection in all ways, yet is STOCK so the cops can't mess with you about your CAI, exhaust, missing emmisions (CATS!), noise levels, non OEM HID's, ect . . . the STi is the choice!

[buster]

So a USDM STI suspension will bolt into a 02 WRX and improve it's handling immensly?! Right?! Cause I will have my suspension in a month and am pretty excited!
Someone give the FAQ on these suspension codes too!!

For those of us who haven't been able to make a STI fit into the budget, we can drive the piss out of our cars, modify them slightly and hope that the guy behind the wheel of the STI is 80% the driver we are.

Interesting, I have had no problem downshifting my WRX into 1st...was this a common problem?

[z3coupe]

Interesting, I have had no problem downshifting my WRX into 1st...was this a common problem?

Perhaps it was on earlier models, mine was an early 02. But SoA said that you can't shift into first over 15 MPH. But the updated parts in my trans rebuild DID allow me to shift into 1st now. But that car is now gone and I am an extremely happy camper with the STi except for a few minor things I am looking into.

Oh, I should add that when I had to drive my old WRX after a few days with the STi (had it in for some due bill work), I thought that either my parking brake was on, or the turbo had blown! It was THAT different in power! And to think that many thought my WRX was fast! And so did I! So trust me, the STi is WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!!!!!!!!!!

[buster]

I seem to remember shifting down around 35km/hr before....hmm, the STI's torque makes it seem a bit quicker too.

[jimb]

Only after a good 25,000 miles on my transmission could I reliably shift into first without problems... I can easily drop down to first at 25mph if I so desired. It does take a second for the synchros to catch up, but some light pressure towards first and a seconds worth of patience, and it slips right in without complaint.

I don't think anyone is knocking the STI here, don't worry, anyone who bought one really is lucky to own one.

Second, ya know, sometimes we can't all trade up to a new car if we wanted to. I would love to trade in my car towards an STI, but you know what, in my area, I'd get absolutely raped on the trade in value and I would need to drop well over 10 thousand dollars to get into a new STI. I'm sorry, but for that 10k difference, I can buy the STI RA suspension, a set of stoptechs or brembos, a UTEC/18G/Injectors etc, and have a car that **WILL** absolutely spank anything but an STI modded with as much enthusiasm.. So you know what, while it looks like a no-brainer to buy the new car, in some cases it really isn't.

And lastly, some of us feel a certain bond, a certain relationship with our bug-eyes. Hell, I love my car, I spent **DAYS** under this thing bolting on mods, screwing around with uppipes, etc etc. I'm not so sure I just want to toss her away for the next best thing. So, I'll continue to mod away on her, hell, everything I put on is bolt-on-compatible with the STI anyway, and when I finally get one in a year or two, you better believe every single mod on the WRX is going to get transferred over to 'er.

jb

[z3coupe]

So, I'll continue to mod away on her, hell, everything I put on is bolt-on-compatible with the STI anyway, and when I finally get one in a year or two, you better believe every single mod on the WRX is going to get transferred over to 'er.

Jim, there was a reason I was able to get the STi, it was not fun - check your mail later.

From your quote I fully understand where you are coming from, but here in LaLa Land that is almost getting to not be an option anymore. Thanks to Fast & Furious and now 2F-2F, as well as a large number of deaths due to illegal street racing - the cops here are going gestapo on ANY modified car! I am an older guy at 48 and white - and until the cop pulled me over and seen who was the driver . . . I was PROFILED! My WRX had gold OZ SL's, Cusco's that were only mildly lowered (NOTE*** The WRX is a rally car, the suspension geometry works better if still high, though a touch lower than stock is ok), a Supertrapp exhaust with the discs on it (about 10), and my SCCA stickers on the 1/4 glass. He came from the oposite direction and pulled behind me and then stopped me for a LOUD exhaust that then turned into VC 27151 illegal exhaust. And when he DID see that I was even older than him, and thus not some kid who would roll over and die for him, he got even more nasty to me! Search for my post about Friendly Officer Ortiz in Ontario and see what went down. I DID win the case through the mail (thanks to TicketAssasin.com), but let me tell you it was a long major hassle! And now the cops are stopping any modified looking car and going inside, outside, and UNDER the car and writting up folks for anything they want! They have damn near carte blance to do whatever it takes to stop the illegal street racing - even if it means hassling legitimate folks and those who only race on tracks or AutoX events! So, I kind of had to look for a car that I could still have crazy HP and handling it - but be as STOCK as possible. Thus for me, either the STi, EVO, Mini S, 350Z or RX8 would do. And, I just loved my WRX so much, none other could compare. So I hope that helps to explain the situation a bit