Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday January 26, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo)

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-06-2020, 05:49 PM   #1
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default First Car Project with my son

Hello,
It is tradition in our family that your first car comes with parts in the back seat and being towed home.

My son (14yo) has selected a 2013 STi for his project. I have done the same with my older kids (Mustang GT/SC and Jeep Wrangler). It's fantastic quality time with my kids and teaches them the value of sweat equity. I grew up with a mechanic as a father and I am a mechanical engineer and still love working with my hands.

The STi we purchased has spun bearing and many performance upgrades. Being this is his first car.. we don't need 400hp or even anything over the stock 300hp. But while I have this block split, I want to put quality parts back in it that will stand up to future tunes as he gets more mature. We have about one hour more work and the block will be on the engine stand.

I'm looking for some advise on how you would build this bottom end and the suggested pistons and rods. Also, how you would configure this engine for a new driver.

Car currently has the following

Engine:
Aem Intake
Perrin inlet tube
Agency Power unequal length headers
Invidia catless down pipe
Nameless catless back exhaust
Grimmspeed external waste gate up pipe
Tial MV-S EWG
Tial Q 50mm BOV
Grimmspeed boost solenoid
Process West TMIC
Deatschwerks 1,000cc injectors
Deatschwerks 65C fuel pump
Tomei fuel pressure regulator
Grimmspeed Air/Oil Separator
Koyorad aluminum radiator
AP3 Sub 003 Cobb acc port

Tuned by Mike Adkins at M-Tuned

Suspension:
Eibach front/rear sway bars
Perrin front/rear end links
Fortune auto 500 series coiloverswith swift spring upgrade
Front Cusco strut bar
GT Spec full trunk cage
Enkei rims
Hankook Ventura Evo 2's

Defi Boost gage
Defi Oil Pressure gage
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 11-09-2020, 10:26 AM   #2
BlackFighter
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193940
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Black
RalliSpec Shortblock

Default

Your son is only 14yo? So he will learn how to drive on a STi? IMHO this is only a good idea if you are in control of the tune and keep it as low hp as possible so in 2 years he doesn't show off in front of his 16 yo friends and something happens. Even in a stock 300hp STi that's to much power to control for a new 16 y/o driver.


Now, that out, are you guys going to be building the eng yourself or having it built by a shop and just dropping it in? you need to decide if you want a build that holds power or longevity for a person who is learning how to drive not just a car, but a car on stick and way above the average car power range. It sounds to me that you want longevity out of it since it will be 2 years before anyone even starts driving it.

For longevity and something that can take a beating from a new driver (especially if you going to keep it stock power at first) I would recommend getting the stock SB or the RA SB from the dealer, drop it in and tune properly. That will be more forgiving and not to upsetting if your kid forgets to check the oil and has a spun bearing. The RA SB can hold 350 whp so will be a good SB to learn on and upgrade. Increase the hp a lil by lil with longevity. Then later down the road when you see fit, you can rebuilt the eng or drop in a built one for large power. Just my 2 cents.

If you don't care and want to go balls to the wall then just buy a IAG staged block or have RalliSpec build you a eng. But by the time you want your kid driving a 450whp car, that block would probably need a rebuild.

Does it have a stock turbo? If going to stay stock level with stock turbo, at first, I would get rid of the EWG and put in a stock or a 20g IWG turbo. There is just no need for all of that EWG sound for a stock level STi. Also not sure what state you live in since your profile is blank, make sure the car will pass inspection with the catless exhaust. And when it comes to tune, I would recommend Jr from JRTune

Last edited by BlackFighter; 11-09-2020 at 01:13 PM.
BlackFighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2020, 02:09 PM   #3
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default

BlackFighter, thanks for the response.

I will be in control and possession of the Accessport and he will have to earn tunes as he matures. My oldest drove a Mustang GT that he had to rebuild the engine as well. He has zero accidents or tickets and is 21 now. Stick is a requirement of mine. I see more accidents from my kid's friends who are driving easy-to-drive low hp cars and lack engagement with the driving function. I'm not concerned. We are a gearhead family. My wife drives an AMG. My daughter a lifted Jeep TJ that she modded. It's just in the blood.

The major point of this project is for him to learn the details of engine building and function. So buying a SB or having someone build one defeats that purpose. For the price of a factory short block, I can rebuild this one with forged quality components. He will be driving this car to learn on so, that starts in March 2021 with his learners permit.

It is a stock turbo and no emissions testing here in Central Florida. I'm not married to the EWG either, but I could also mod the downpipe to recirc the EWG.

Car has 90k miles and cylinders still have the crosshatch visable but one cylinder has slight scoring. So we will be boring these to 99.75mm, cleaning up the head and block surfaces, and servicing valves and seals. We have been doing a lot of research and are leaning toward Manley pistons, eagles rods, king races, and some ARP studs.

I just need to find a good machine shop locally that has experience with Subaru, not a Ford/Chevy shop. I have access to my machine shop at work and the CMM, but we are not an engine shop.
Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2020, 04:14 PM   #4
BlackFighter
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193940
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Black
RalliSpec Shortblock

Default

Quote:
Stick is a requirement of mine
Man after my heart. I believe it should be mandatory to know how to drive a manual car to get a drivers lic in the states. If you understand how the machine works, you will be a better operator. And that goes for anything, especially cars.

So looks like you are on the right path then. Manley pistons are good and tested but there are many for the EJ eng, like CP, Wiseco, JE, Manley, and Cosworth. My fav and what I use are Cosworth pistons in my build. a little more expansive but I love the quality and how quite and tight they sound even after 50k+ miles of hard driving pushing 450whp.

I would also change out all of the fluids, brake, tranny, diff, etc... And upgrade to SS brake lines. Replace the clutch while you have the eng out too. Will save you lots of headache down the road. Or you can leave the old one in for your kid to learn and burn the hell out of it haha. A brand new clutch might be a little difficult at first for people learning how to drive a manual.
BlackFighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2020, 10:55 AM   #5
Max Capacity
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 149347
Join Date: May 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Tolland, CT
Vehicle:
05 LGT,09 SpecB
Black/silver

Default

Little different advice, I would suggest when it comes time to teach him how to drive, you take him to a empty parking lot on a Sunday morning. My work place was built for over 12,000 people. So there are many internal roads and lots to drive in and out of. He can practice using the end of the parking lanes as a stop sign. Back into and out of parking spots, do burnouts, all without any other cars or things to hit.

You can teach him how the car will handle under heavy braking and may be even in the snow.

My son really enjoyed doing that by not having the stress of worrying about hitting something on the streets.
Max Capacity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2020, 11:05 AM   #6
BlackFighter
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193940
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Black
RalliSpec Shortblock

Default

Good advice. I hope that how they going to do it. Isn't that how we all learned how to drive? In a empty parking lot? Who goes out on the street with cars the first time you get behind the wheel? Never forget my time learning.
BlackFighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2020, 03:57 PM   #7
Vancouver98STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 459287
Join Date: Dec 2016
Chapter/Region: VIC
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Vehicle:
1998 JDM Impreza STi
V4 GF8 White

Thumbs up My maiden voyage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFighter View Post

Isn't that how we all learned how to drive? In a empty parking lot? Who goes out on the street with cars the first time you get behind the wheel?
<Puts hand up>

It was 1970. I was 14 years old, and I was with my dad at my grandfather's house shortly after my grandfather had passed away. It was only my dad and I who were there. My dad was upset. His father had just died. He downed a few drinks of scotch. It was obvious he was in no shape to drive when it came time to go home. Seizing the opportunity, I suggested to my dad that I could drive us home. My only experience with the car at that point was moving it backwards and forwards a few times in my parents' 40 ft driveway! Because my dad was a bit inebriated (and perhaps more easily convinced), he agreed to my proposal. So I drove the two of us in our '67 Chevrolet Bel Air the five miles home through light city traffic. Would've taken about 15 minutes. I might add that no other motorists or pedestrians were harmed in the process. The ol' Chevy remained unscathed. I was very focused (and relaxed) behind the wheel, and remain so 50 years later.

As successful as my first drive was, I would not suggest that this is the best route to go for most learners... especially at age 14!
Vancouver98STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2020, 06:23 PM   #8
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default

Both of my older kids have learned to drive in a old parking lot or some of the remote roads between the phosphate mines south of here. We are on the edge of rural in this county. Some nice dirt roads to test that AWD too! No snow here... just lots of rain! Hurricane tonight!

I learned to drive early on the farm, backing up trailers and moving cars around. By 17 I was driving a truck and trailer for the local tractor dealer delivering tractors.

My first car was a full size 78 Blazer with 36" tires and a hopped up 350 with headers and blown out glasspacks that we towed home. Loud as hell but I could break all four tires loose. It was a beast. By my senior year I had a 65 Mustang.

Like I said, we work on cars for fun and family time.

Found a good machine shop in Pensacola, FL called Emerald Coast Performance Machine.
https://www.facebook.com/ecperformancemachine/
Probably use them.
Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2020, 03:54 PM   #9
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default

Got the engine out....two spun rods and lots of metal in the pan and a stuffed Killer B pickup!
Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2020, 03:57 PM   #10
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default

But on the positive side... I ran across a long block from a 2018 with 6k miles and at a bargain. So we pushed the easy button for now. Maybe rebuild the original engine later with a closed deck.
Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2020, 04:28 PM   #11
Max Capacity
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 149347
Join Date: May 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Tolland, CT
Vehicle:
05 LGT,09 SpecB
Black/silver

Default

Just have to ask, why was the 6k engine taken out of the car it came in ? Good find if its in great shape.

Most of us Legacy GT guy's buy a new OEM ej257 short block, have our heads rebuilt and get the engine gasket set for your year car.
Max Capacity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2020, 08:05 PM   #12
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Capacity View Post
Just have to ask, why was the 6k engine taken out of the car it came in ? Good find if its in great shape.
Engine was pulled from 2018 STI and replaced with IAG built long block now pushing 600hp. This was the plan when the car was purchased new.
I ran a leak down test and scoped each cylinder. Engine looks new in every way.

Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2020, 09:15 PM   #13
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

Good path thus far it appears.

I would recommend doing any hose/engine bay clean up to make up for the lack of getting to learn the engine process. I found that engine bays tend to overwelm people more than most in these cars due to the shear amount of hoses and such. Be a fun project for you as you toss that engine into its home.

You mentioned pistons then bought a long block, but if/when you build it look into having a custom piston made. Mine cost less than the highest end off the shelf but more then a basic CP, made it so I could match the size to the smallest bore size jump needed to clean things up.
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2020, 10:37 PM   #14
supermarkus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6971
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Edmonds, Washington, USA
Vehicle:
2008 WRX STi
SSM

Default

Probably goes without saying but delete all that secondary air injection system garbage but keep the driver side valve with the port blocked off, pull the fuse and relay for it, then have your tuner delete all the codes associated with the air pump system.
supermarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2020, 11:35 PM   #15
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by supermarkus View Post
Probably goes without saying but delete all that secondary air injection system garbage but keep the driver side valve with the port blocked off, pull the fuse and relay for it, then have your tuner delete all the codes associated with the air pump system.
Plan is to delete the air pump, purge/evap, and TGV. But tuner said that he would have to re-tune the car to do that. Seems extreme to turn off some codes.
Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2020, 10:11 AM   #16
BlackFighter
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193940
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Black
RalliSpec Shortblock

Default

Let him retune it, its not just "turn off some codes".
BlackFighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2020, 03:01 PM   #17
supermarkus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6971
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Edmonds, Washington, USA
Vehicle:
2008 WRX STi
SSM

Default

oh yeah I forgot that he will have to adjust the cold start to stop it from dumping extra fuel now that the SAI system is gone. With the TGV delete and SAI delete there is definitely a bit of tuning involved. Most tuners are familiar with the adjustments necessary to delete that trash, and yours is on the money.
supermarkus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2020, 05:06 PM   #18
T_Chayal
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 511156
Join Date: Jan 2020
Default

Lucky son, and awesome dad. Hel look book on these days one day for sure.

Project is looking good..
T_Chayal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2020, 06:01 PM   #19
Sconi07
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 487768
Join Date: Jun 2018
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Idaho
Vehicle:
2007 Impreza WRX STI
Pearl White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Chayal View Post
Lucky son, and awesome dad. Hel look book on these days one day for sure.

Project is looking good..
Couldnít agree more!! Iím excited to see the outcome on this project. Will keep coming back for updates
Sconi07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 10:05 PM   #20
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default

Progress thus far.

Killer B oil pickup and baffle


Subaru engine gasket set
New o-rings on sensors and AVCS solenoids


AVCS sprockets disassembled and cleaned.
Gates timing set with Japanese parts.
Aisin water pump
Subaru thermostat
New OEM oil cooler
Gates molded hoses


TS TGV deletes.

Last edited by Mowrer; 01-03-2021 at 10:50 PM.
Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 10:47 PM   #21
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default

Perrin Inlet cleaned and installed
All connections for TGV, EVAP, and SAI dielectric grease packed and taped up
Unused nipples capped
Defi oil press sensor


Deatschwerks injectors cleaned and flow tested


Barometric sensor removed from SAI valve and mounted


Throttle coolant bypass


SAI ports capped
Subaru nipple installed for cyl 4 cooling mod


BOV hose removed and capped
Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2021, 10:08 PM   #22
Mowrer
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520062
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default

Dropping it in the car tomorrow morning.



Mowrer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2021, 02:15 PM   #23
Jay11STI
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 492422
Join Date: Oct 2018
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North Jersey
Vehicle:
2011 STI

Default

Nice man, good work!

Did you do the turbo inlet after the intake manifold was already on? How was that to do with the manifold on already?
Jay11STI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2021, 04:08 PM   #24
BlackFighter
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193940
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Black
RalliSpec Shortblock

Default

Already dropping the eng in the car? Seams a little fast for a project car for your son thats only 14 y/o. So he wount be able to drive the car for 2 years and its almost done?

Looks like it's a project more for you then your son. But I know you had to tell your wife it was for your son so she let's you spend the money j/k

Why did you go with a silicon inlet? You had the Mani off already, should have went with a hard pipe.
BlackFighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2021, 04:18 PM   #25
BlackFighter
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193940
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Philly
Vehicle:
2004 WRX STI Black
RalliSpec Shortblock

Default

Also are you going to run speed density? Because you do not want to use a bov on these cars with maf. If you going to keep maf then get a bpv. I had a built eng at 420whp mustang dyno maf with a forged bpv. I would discuse this with your tuner before you finish everything.
BlackFighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.