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Old 02-10-2015, 10:47 PM   #251
seanathanq83
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I just don't see how a 45 would work because I would be pointing towards the ground, maybe a 120 fitting so it points up

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Old 02-10-2015, 10:49 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanathanq83 View Post
I just don't see how a 45 would work because I would be pointing towards the ground, maybe a 120 fitting so it points up

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Ideally you'd want more volume below the turbo to act as a sump. But even with an AN fitting and a T-fitting I doubt it would be enough volume. The 120 would essentially make it have 0 volume below the turbo.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:49 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Fobia is saying to just use a couple fittings in place of the sump. It seems like this should work fine, but it's almost guaranteed to back up oil into the turbo and smoke on start up. Even if you have a check valve on the pump side there will still be oil on the feed side that will fill the turbo and then just sit there because it has nowhere to go.
Depending on how you have the -10 lines? The -4 line has a little oil in it and with a bigger -10 drain and say a foot and a half of line below the turbo it should have room to sit with out making it to the turbo. Also has a the vent line too it would back up into and fill that space. You could run a check valve before the turbo too?
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:53 PM   #254
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The drain killer bee runs is tiny if his works I don't see why some fittings so t work

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Old 02-10-2015, 10:56 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fobiawrx View Post
Depending on how you have the -10 lines? The -4 line has a little oil in it and with a bigger -10 drain and say a foot and a half of line below the turbo it should have room to sit with out making it to the turbo. Also has a the vent line too it would back up into and fill that space. You could run a check valve before the turbo too?
How would you run the lines so that you have over a foot of empty hose? The way I have mine now, all the hoses point up. Fluid will all just level out, so unless it's actually below the turbo itself it won't help.

I did some volume calculations on -4 AN and -10 AN lines. Depending how long your feed line is it can be a decent amount of volume. The numbers are posted a page or two back. A check valve on the feed wouldn't work because that's the same direction the oil has to flow to go into the turbo.

IMO, you could probably make this work, but you'd have to pile up enough fittings and extra lines that you'd basically just have the same volume as the sump had in the first place. So I'm not sure you'd really be gaining anything. Properly sized lines and check valves in the right spot could minimize this though.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:58 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanathanq83 View Post
The drain killer bee runs is tiny if his works I don't see why some fittings so t work

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Someone fill some fittings up with water and measure out how much volume they hold.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:59 PM   #257
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Well also I think the numbers you ran for sizes are wrong as you proved when you can't push a -10 line over the 5/8" factory drain, but that may not be enough to matter, also with check claves you could keep basically all of the oil on the drain side in the line
And if you really wanted they make check valves for -4 which you could put right before the turbo, making it so nothing really drains either way

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Old 02-10-2015, 11:00 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanathanq83 View Post
The drain killer bee runs is tiny if his works I don't see why some fittings so t work

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Yeah, but I'm sure he figured out the volume of oil that the chra and the return line would hold. So it's probably appropriately sized for that amount. You don't have to put the sump directly under the turbo, you could use a fuel filter canister without the filter cartridge in it and mount it off to the side by the radiator support as long as it's below the turbo it'll do the same thing.
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:27 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fobiawrx View Post
So i started thinking after looking at killerbees mini sump and thought about just using a -10 45 double female fitting into a male "t" fitting and having the line itself vent and just skipping the tank all together? Any thoughts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
The feed side will still drain down into the turbo and likely cause it to smoke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fobiawrx View Post
Also has a the vent line too it would back up into and fill that space. You could run a check valve before the turbo too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanathanq83 View Post
The drain killer bee runs is tiny if his works I don't see why some fittings so t work
Trying to group similar details together so if I miss something, let me know.

We tried the 'fitting' method a few times experimenting with different sizes, orientations, etc. Some worked better than others, but none worked 100% of the time. You need some volume for the oil to collect with a low point outlet to the pump. Fobia, if you decreased your cylinder size and height and put a bung in the bottom, it would be a pretty sweet setup. This is what I wrestled with and why it made more sense to just machine a piece vs fabing sheetmetal.

I think with the fittings, it works great on flat level ground, but these systems are dynamic. The ports locations, size, etc., needs to take into consideration significant side loads you will see on track or when I'm taking a clover leaf off ramp like a boss Oil will pool on the wrong side (Murphy's Law) depending on the loading and then potentially backup into the turbo's drain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
Pump flow rate > turbo oil flow rate. Excess air will be pulled from the vent and it'll just suck up the oil as it gets it. The sump should be mostly empty during normal operation.
If it's designed properly this is exactly how it should work ^

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Fluid will all just level out, so unless it's actually below the turbo itself it won't help.

A check valve on the feed wouldn't work because that's the same direction the oil has to flow to go into the turbo.

IMO, you could probably make this work, but you'd have to pile up enough fittings and extra lines that you'd basically just have the same volume as the sump had in the first place. So I'm not sure you'd really be gaining anything. Properly sized lines and check valves in the right spot could minimize this though.
See above, but fluid is almost NEVER level in any sump. Think about when you're driving, the forces are changing constantly, as will the orientation of oil in the sump. Drag racing; oil sloshes violently backwards at launch and during shifts. Same with breaking; oil will climb the front and back of the sump. Take whatever sump design, or fitting combination you choose and now tip it 50 is every direction. Watch the 'level' as it moves around. The worst case scenario is tipping 50 away from the drain port as it will allow the maximum amount of oil to pool and then potentially slosh in any direction.

A spring operated check valve on the supply WILL work if it's installed correctly... in the same direction of flow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstroy View Post
Yeah, but I'm sure he figured out the volume of oil that the chra and the return line would hold. So it's probably appropriately sized for that amount. You don't have to put the sump directly under the turbo, you could use a fuel filter canister without the filter cartridge in it and mount it off to the side by the radiator support as long as it's below the turbo it'll do the same thing.
There are volume calculations, but they are less important than the actual sump design, that takes into consideration the car's movements. The volume calculation only comes into play once you turn the car off. At that, you can get around that with a timed relay to run the pump (we run it for 5 seconds after shutdown, although with the latest sump revision I don't think it's needed).

Running a remote style sump off to the side is a bad idea IMO, for the many reasons stated above. You load the car in a certain direction and it just fills in a bad way. Sump below drain, outlet port as low as possible (on the bottom preferably) works best.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:01 AM   #260
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Thanks for all the info.

I think I'm going to stick with my large sump from Fobia. I think it will give me the least problems.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:05 PM   #261
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I picked up a -12 AN line and fitting for the oil return. It makes -8 AN look tiny. Haha.



Installed with just a bench vice and adjustable wrench so they're not perfect. Good enough for me though.

EDIT: Last night I finished hooking up everything to the sump and the boost controller/EWG. I also cut a hole in the bumper for the exhaust dump.


Last edited by xluben; 02-12-2015 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 02-13-2015, 01:36 PM   #262
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Unicorn fitting arrived. 3/8" NPT to -12 AN.





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Old 02-13-2015, 03:22 PM   #263
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Are planning to put any heat wrap or shielding around that bundle of hoses? Looks pretty close to the hot stuff.


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Old 02-13-2015, 03:29 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
Are planning to put any heat wrap or shielding around that bundle of hoses? Looks pretty close to the hot stuff.


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I made sure to keep them near the compressor housing instead of the turbine or center section. I had the main electrical harness and some vacuum lines sitting on the sompressor housing on my last rotated setup and they were fine, so I hope this will be OK. I'll also have a turbo blanket on the turbo. If I'm way off base, let me know.

More side angle showing the hoses next to the compressor housing:

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Old 02-13-2015, 03:49 PM   #265
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that there is a thing of beauty.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:20 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Trying to group similar details together so if I miss something, let me know.



We tried the 'fitting' method a few times experimenting with different sizes, orientations, etc. Some worked better than others, but none worked 100% of the time. You need some volume for the oil to collect with a low point outlet to the pump. Fobia, if you decreased your cylinder size and height and put a bung in the bottom, it would be a pretty sweet setup. This is what I wrestled with and why it made more sense to just machine a piece vs fabing sheetmetal.



I think with the fittings, it works great on flat level ground, but these systems are dynamic. The ports locations, size, etc., needs to take into consideration significant side loads you will see on track or when I'm taking a clover leaf off ramp like a boss Oil will pool on the wrong side (Murphy's Law) depending on the loading and then potentially backup into the turbo's drain.







If it's designed properly this is exactly how it should work ^







See above, but fluid is almost NEVER level in any sump. Think about when you're driving, the forces are changing constantly, as will the orientation of oil in the sump. Drag racing; oil sloshes violently backwards at launch and during shifts. Same with breaking; oil will climb the front and back of the sump. Take whatever sump design, or fitting combination you choose and now tip it 50 is every direction. Watch the 'level' as it moves around. The worst case scenario is tipping 50 away from the drain port as it will allow the maximum amount of oil to pool and then potentially slosh in any direction.



A spring operated check valve on the supply WILL work if it's installed correctly... in the same direction of flow.







There are volume calculations, but they are less important than the actual sump design, that takes into consideration the car's movements. The volume calculation only comes into play once you turn the car off. At that, you can get around that with a timed relay to run the pump (we run it for 5 seconds after shutdown, although with the latest sump revision I don't think it's needed).



Running a remote style sump off to the side is a bad idea IMO, for the many reasons stated above. You load the car in a certain direction and it just fills in a bad way. Sump below drain, outlet port as low as possible (on the bottom preferably) works best.


Right, unless it's a dd car and sees grandma driving on a regular basis. I'm thinking of a gr body where there is a ton of room in the fenderwell and you angle the remote sump downward at a 45* angle while it's mounted by the rad support and the inlet to the sump is still below the turbo. Looking at the fobia ff there's still an inch or so of gravity drain. And there's the fact that the scavenge pump is positive displacement so it'll keep drawing a vacuum even if the pump is dry.
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:11 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
Are planning to put any heat wrap or shielding around that bundle of hoses? Looks pretty close to the hot stuff.


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Here's another shot that's even more from the side to show how I tried to keep the hoses away from the heat as much as I could.



You can also see the blanket installed on the turbo and that I cut down the downpipe/exhaust dump.

I hacked it off with my angle grinder and then Fobia cleaned it up and made it pretty with his belt sander.







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Old 02-14-2015, 09:11 AM   #268
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There any way to clock that compressor housing differently. You can see the elbow hanging below the bumper. I know with my luck that t-bolt/hose would catch a driveway/parking lot entrance and rip that coupler right off

Great job on the bumper trimming!

You might want to consider a metal trim ring to protect the plastic some...



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Old 02-14-2015, 09:25 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
There any way to clock that compressor housing differently. You can see the elbow hanging below the bumper. I know with my luck that t-bolt/hose would catch a driveway/parking lot entrance and rip that coupler right off

Great job on the bumper trimming!

You might want to consider a metal trim ring to protect the plastic some...

[IMG]http://photos.killerbmotorsport.com/i.ashx?gallery=494656&mid=82971181&mt=Photo&standa rdsize=640x480[IMG]

[IMG]http://photos.killerbmotorsport.com/i.ashx?gallery=494656&mid=89694507&mt=Photo&standa rdsize=1600x1200[IMG]
Yep, it is the lowest point. I know thats not ideal but there really isn't anywhere else to clock it unless you start hacking up the frame. The ground clearance should the same as Crystal or anyone else with Fobia's kit that is using a PTE turbo since this is basically the only way you can clock it. Maybe I'll just have to put a big lip kit (with two lips stacked)like all the other Bugeye guys. Haha.

I was planning on doing a trim ring. I just wanted to figure out the size first. It's a 3" pipe but it is at an angle so the cross section is oval. I used a 3.25" hole saw and I had to do some Dremel work opening it up, so I think 3.5" will be perfect for the trim ring. I'll order one soon.
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:02 PM   #270
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I just talked to the owner of this setup:



He's running with no sump under the turbo. Just a -10 AN 90 fitting to a -10 line going to the pump. He said he runs it for a few seconds after shut down and it works fine. But if he forgets to run it then it smokes like crazy. I don't think he has any check valves though.
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Old 02-15-2015, 11:53 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
I just talked to the owner of this setup:



He's running with no sump under the turbo. Just a -10 AN 90 fitting to a -10 line going to the pump. He said he runs it for a few seconds after shut down and it works fine. But if he forgets to run it then it smokes like crazy. I don't think he has any check valves though.

You're going to dd this car once it's built right? I hope you are because <3.
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Old 02-16-2015, 12:10 AM   #272
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I think I mentioned it earlier but no one with a low mount setup can actually dd it correct? It's strictly a sunshine only pray to God no babies get sucked up the turbine kinda car?
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Old 02-16-2015, 12:11 AM   #273
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I'm going to daily mine

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Old 02-16-2015, 12:12 AM   #274
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You're going to dd this car once it's built right? I hope you are because <3.
Are you referring to me or the owner of that car I posted? I don't know about the owner of that car, but I do plan on street driving mine. I'm not sure how "daily" it will be though. Depends a lot on how obnoxious the fender dump ends up being. I have to drive through suburban housing developments to drop off my daughter at daycare every morning. If it's too annoying I'll probably just save the car for weekends.

Here are some new shots with the chopped off dump tube and various intake setups.


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Old 02-16-2015, 12:14 AM   #275
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You don't have yours set up for standard exhaust as well

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