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Old 08-08-2018, 04:34 PM   #476
Mattkguns
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Just a thought, maybe it's been covered somewhere else.

Why not replace the OEM pump with a solid state relay, and wire your aftermarket pump off that?

SSRs should be able to handle the switching demand. Therefore extending pwm control to any larger pump.
Or am I missing something there?

Nevermind, I hadn't read the thread in a while and forgot that's how this started.

Carry-on!
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Last edited by Mattkguns; 08-08-2018 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 08-09-2018, 01:55 PM   #477
stu
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I had been having problems with my relays frying, so I bought a couple of these on amazon and have had good luck for a little over a year now.


https://i.imgur.com/9Vv0DbA.jpg
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Old 08-09-2018, 03:57 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stu View Post
I had been having problems with my relays frying, so I bought a couple of these on amazon and have had good luck for a little over a year now.
Sounds like your relays were inexpensive and spec'd for limited duty. You exceeded the cycle count and they failed.

Even SSD's have a cycle limit, but usually higher than electromechanical.
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:32 PM   #479
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Yah that's the tech term for frying.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:24 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stu View Post
Yah that's the tech term for frying.
Did the relay coil die, or the contacts burned/fried?
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Old 08-10-2018, 10:31 PM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stu View Post
I had been having problems with my relays frying, so I bought a couple of these on amazon and have had good luck for a little over a year now.


https://i.imgur.com/9Vv0DbA.jpg
So those have any sort of heatsinks? The number 1 killer is solid state devices is heat and constant switching generates lots of heat.
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Old 08-13-2018, 12:17 PM   #482
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Yah no heatsinks. So far it has only gotten warm. I run a twin aeromotive 340 intank.
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Old 08-13-2018, 01:39 PM   #483
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Well if it keeps dying its getting to warm. Do you have a suppressor diode across the motor to minimize the inductive kickback? Over-voltage and heat are really the only thing that kills solid state components.
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:02 PM   #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
So those have any sort of heatsinks? The number 1 killer is solid state devices is heat and constant switching generates lots of heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stu View Post
Yah no heatsinks. So far it has only gotten warm. I run a twin aeromotive 340 intank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Well if it keeps dying its getting to warm. Do you have a suppressor diode across the motor to minimize the inductive kickback? Over-voltage and heat are really the only thing that kills solid state components.
If it's a full plastic case, not sure how much a heatsink will help.
If it's a partial plastic case with a metal back, then some heat transfer grease and some amount of heatsink won't hurt.
You can get heat transfer grease in small tubes at an auto parts place. Used commonly on domestic HEI ignitions for various modules. Permatex is a common brand.
If the parts guy has no clue, look on a wall rack or lazysusan rack in an aisle, or ask for, "GM ignition module grease".
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:29 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stu View Post
Yah no heatsinks. So far it has only gotten warm. I run a twin aeromotive 340 intank.
My bad, I thought you were in on the SSR PWM discussion. Are you killing them running 100% on or PWM speed control?

Just noticed that's an electro-mechanical relay
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Old 08-13-2018, 02:37 PM   #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
If it's a full plastic case, not sure how much a heatsink will help.
If it's a partial plastic case with a metal back, then some heat transfer grease and some amount of heatsink won't hurt.
You can get heat transfer grease in small tubes at an auto parts place. Used commonly on domestic HEI ignitions for various modules. Permatex is a common brand.
If the parts guy has no clue, look on a wall rack or lazysusan rack in an aisle, or ask for, "GM ignition module grease".


I was thinking about something like this if it where a SSR. I went with a panel mount and heat-sink similar to this.

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Old 08-14-2018, 06:16 PM   #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Well if it keeps dying its getting to warm. Do you have a suppressor diode across the motor to minimize the inductive kickback? Over-voltage and heat are really the only thing that kills solid state components.

The one in the picture is the one that's working great, using the stock FPC hardwired. And yes it is a mech relay.
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Old 10-29-2018, 04:06 PM   #488
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BACK STORY/IMPORTANT INFO

I'm having a very frustrating time with my fuel pump and am looking for some advice.

The backstory is when I bought my WRX (2003) the previous owner had a wacked off kill switch in the car. He told me it was run off the fuel pump relay. If I put the car in the ON position, nothing would happen until the I pushed the button, then the pump would prime.

Fast forward a bit and I did some heavy modifications to the car over the course of a year or so. I finally get it buttoned back up and go to fire it over and the pump no longer primes. So I look at his ghetto wiring and decide to pull it all out. I chase the wire down and the only wire that was running to anything other than a relay he had was to the MAIN relay. Not the fuel pump relay. So I get everything removed and placed back to where it looks like it goes. Still wont prime. So I head down to OReillys and pick up a cheap fuel pump relay since I wasn't hearing it click on anymore. Still doesn't prime and the new relay doesnt click over either. So, thats what lead me to this thread. I figure if I hardwired it then it would bypass any wiring issues that still existed from the previous owners hackjob?

So I bought this deatschwerks kit
https://www.maperformance.com/produc...hoCMPkQAvD_BwE

Now, the final 3 pieces of info you may need to know is I have a walbro 255 pump that is almost 2 years old but has less than 100 miles run through it, the car hadn't run in over a year and I have a relocated battery that is under my passenger seat that has a terminal disconnect switch on the negative side.

ACTUAL PROBLEM

I have my relay hooked up exactly like the original post. Wired into the yellow/black wire on the pump connector. Originally had it grounded back to the battery since it was so close but then didnt know if that caused the issue so I grounded on the chassis now. When I put the car in the "ON" position again, still nothing happens. The new relay doesnt click, pump doesnt prime, original relay doesnt click. Nothing. HOWEVER, and this is the weird part, if I have the key removed and touch the ground to the negative terminal the new relay clicks. But then when I put it in the "ON" position again it doesnt so.

So the new relay will ONLY click if the vehicle is totally off and if the negative wire from the relay is grounded to the battery itself. And since thats the only way it will click I still cant see if it'll prime the pump since the vehicle isnt in the "ON" position.

So after reading this novel, what seems to be the issue? Is my pump just gone? Is there a bigger electrical nightmare somewhere that I am not finding?
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:01 PM   #489
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damn, no one?
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:13 PM   #490
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If you supply power and ground right from the battery just quickly does the pump turn on? If so your pump is good. You would need to check for 12v always hot a 12v switched ignition and also a good ground. From what your saying it sounds like you have a bad ground and your wiring is wrong
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Old 11-04-2018, 10:56 PM   #491
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So I figured through a ton of trouble shooting that there's something wrong with the engine harness or bulk head harness Connection in the engine bay thats tripping the fuse. Here is a video that shows that every time I try to touch the engine harness ground to the motor it's sparks and then will trip the fuse. What the hell is the problem?https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5bdfb16b...104_183248.mp4
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:02 AM   #492
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You car will never prime if you don't have you injectors grounded to the intake manifold.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:23 PM   #493
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Sorry to drag back an old thread, but I do have a pertinent question.

My fuel system consists of 2 in tank pumps and 2 external pumps. One in-tank and one external run full time while the other pair of pumps kick in as needed. I have separate relays controlling power to the primary and secondary pumps.

I have my *primary pumps* hooked up as shown here on Post 305 of this thread: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...&postcount=305


It works just fine. Primes like stock, and gives no issue.

The problem I'm having is with the secondary pump operation. The secondary pumps have their own relay that is wired as follows:
- ECU Aux output trigger to 86
- OEM FPC ground to 85
- switched 12V battery power to 30
- Fuel pump positive to 87.
- Fuel pump is grounded to chassis


Expected behaviour:
- ECU output 1 runs primary pumps.
- ECU output 2 runs secondary pumps.
- Staging Output 2 to kick in while Output 1 is on already results in the secondary pumps joining the primary pumps to boost fuel flow to the engine when needed.

Actual observed behaviour:
- ECU output 1 alone runs primary pumps
- ECU output 2 alone causes primary *and* secondary pumps to run at the same time
- Staging Output 2 to kick in while Output 1 is on already results in just the primary pumps running, so it is impossible to stage the outputs.

Things I have tried I:
- Chassis ground to 85 for the secondary pumps, but after doing this, the primary pumps just run continuously with with the Key ON.
- I have checked the ECU, and all outputs are working properly.
- Checked wiring, and both halves of the fuel system are independent of each other.

I know that a lot of people advocate ditching the OEM FPC, but I do want the system to work stock-like in how it primes the fuel system and then stops the pumps running until the engine is cranking over.

Any ideas as to how I can gain actual control of my secondary pumps independent of my primary pumps?
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:13 PM   #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigga View Post
I know that a lot of people advocate ditching the OEM FPC, but I do want the system to work stock-like in how it primes the fuel system and then stops the pumps running until the engine is cranking over.
The general rule of thumb is:

1. OEM based ECU (Cobb AP, etc.) - keep the FPC.
2. Standalone system - replace the FPC with a relay.

Note that the priming function is part of the ECU and has nothing to do with the FPC. Standalone systems normally prime, then stop the pump until cranking RPM is detected. This is a requirement of almost all motorsport rule books.

The FPC is an inertial switch (fuel cut on crash) and a means of reducing pump speed to reduce noise. That is all. The reason it needs to be retained on a stock ECU based system is that the ECU receives a diagnostic signal from the FPC. Standalone systems don't care about this and the wire is removed or just left as a N/C pin @ the ECU.

That in mind, do you have a standalone or an OEM ECU?
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:27 PM   #495
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If you have a Cobb AP or Tactrix, I remember seeing settings for the FPC based on....throttle position??? IIRC.... 33%, 66%, and 100% were the three settings. If you really want 100% all the time, I imagine you could just have those fields modified all to 100%.
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:21 PM   #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
The general rule of thumb is:

1. OEM based ECU (Cobb AP, etc.) - keep the FPC.
2. Standalone system - replace the FPC with a relay.

Note that the priming function is part of the ECU and has nothing to do with the FPC. Standalone systems normally prime, then stop the pump until cranking RPM is detected. This is a requirement of almost all motorsport rule books.

The FPC is an inertial switch (fuel cut on crash) and a means of reducing pump speed to reduce noise. That is all. The reason it needs to be retained on a stock ECU based system is that the ECU receives a diagnostic signal from the FPC. Standalone systems don't care about this and the wire is removed or just left as a N/C pin @ the ECU.

That in mind, do you have a standalone or an OEM ECU?
Thanks for the response

To answer your question, the answer is "both". I do have a standalone running the car most of the time, but my stock ECU does have to go back in occasionally for emissions purposes (and will have to go back into the car in a few weeks again actually), hence part of the desire to keep the stock FPC in the loop.

As is now, I can switch the stock ECU back in easily by just plugging it in and it is able to run the primary pumps on the car without issue, as it can power up the relay running the primary pumps, and run them at a constant speed.

Last edited by jigga; 01-11-2019 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:27 PM   #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper_crazy View Post
If you have a Cobb AP or Tactrix, I remember seeing settings for the FPC based on....throttle position??? IIRC.... 33%, 66%, and 100% were the three settings. If you really want 100% all the time, I imagine you could just have those fields modified all to 100%.
Yes, I do have Accessport on my stock ECU, and I believe it runs at 100%.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:30 PM   #498
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I updated my fueling to include a DCCD FuelPro controller. It is working great so far (7k miles so far)..

Here is link to the post containing details:

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=36
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Old 01-23-2019, 06:26 PM   #499
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So I'm hard wiring my fuel pump on a 2019 sti with a DeatschWerks Fuel Pump Hard-wire kit and am having a hard time understanding the instructions. What wire goes where? thanks
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:00 AM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bettner12 View Post
don't mind the messy lines. but this is what the wiring should look like, based on my interpretation of everything.



Finding a SSR that had fast enough cycle times was tricky though, I found this waveform on another thread on here about the fuel pump controller. IF it is accurate, then only two SSR's will be fast enough to keep up with the factory controller.


the two SSR's that come closest to working, assuming that waveform is accurate would be:

1) $84.02
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...859-ND/2780519

Spec sheet here: http://www.crydom.com/en/Products/Ca...c_ip20_100.pdf

^ notice the amp rating dies off above 9000Hz, and you will need to add that largest heat sink they make for it, $24 if I remember.

2) the power I/O HDD-06V75E, will do 20,000 Hz, ( if the waveform is accurate, this is the ONLY relay ive found that can keep up)
http://ww6.aitsafe.com/cf/add.cfm?us...oducts/hdd.htm

Specs:
http://www.power-io.com/products/hdd.htm



And the Diode i would use:
$0.54
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...SCT-ND/1139945
i'm thinking the power-io suggestion is the best option. especially for people that want maintain PWM for their fuel pump like me. i dont want my oversized fuel pump pumping 100% and heating my fuel while im setting in the parking lot at walmart.

why not wire the power-io module to the factory FPC where fuel pump used to be. then let the power-io module power the fuel pump/s. the HDD-06V75E is good for 75amps and dont forget the freewheeling diode across the load.

this is what i plan to do. in my case i have a lift pump in the tank and a surge pot pump in the trunk. i'm going to power both pumps from the 1 power-io module.

thanks for the clue above - i hope my plan works - i'll try to remember to post back after i test this out.
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