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Old 03-30-2008, 11:33 AM   #1
RenMaxi
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Default Update on the Sport 2008 WRX Rally Car

Hello Orlando, this is Carlos, who some of you know as the driver of the 2008 Impreza WRX rally car for Sport Mazda-Subaru.



Having driven this car in 3 rallycrosses now, I feel that I know the car extremely well, and have learned all its quirks...

... which it doesn't have any of!

I know a lot of people have reacted unfavorably to the car based solely on its looks, and I agree - it's a big change from what we're used to. But what is most important is how it DRIVES.

The drivetrain is excellent. The boost comes in quickly... much more quickly than the previous WRX. This is VERY important for the type of driving I do. When I come out of a tight corner in a rallycross, I need the power to be there right away, not 5 seconds later. And this car delivers. I've never had any moment during racing where I thought to myself "Come on, come on, come on, where's my turbo?" It's there... all the time. The transmission also works excellently too. The shifter action is beautiful. I've never ground or missed a gear, even during racing, and I love the way it's geared. I'm always in the right gear going into or coming out of a corner.

The suspension works great for me as well. Yes, I understand that there is increased body roll from the previous WRX. But don't let that mislead you - the car handles better than the old car. It handles very neutrally; it does not have pronounced understeer or oversteer. It's very forgiving for a novice driver. But at the same time, it's very responsive to an experienced driver. Anytime I've left-foot braked or given it extra gas at an apex of a corner, it rotates perfectly.

Many people are bemoaning the traction control in place of the rear LSD. Although I MUST say that turning the traction control off is something you should only do with caution and under conditions in which you can still maintain control of the vehicle without it (I won't be hold responsible if you make a mistake while the traction control is off and crash your car), I have had very good results with the traction control turned off, even without the LSD.

I absolutely love this car, and firmly believe that it will carry me to many future victories in the upcoming 2008 rallycross season.

Now, a couple days ago, Sport Mazda-Subaru granted me the opportunity to drive the new STi:



I put this car through its paces as well, and I must say that it is a significantly different car from the WRX and from the old STi. Because of its price and performance, I think it competes in a different class than the WRX.

I've driven a BMW 335i before, with the new twin-turbo 6cyl, and a similar power output. The BMW is a very, VERY nice car... and it's fast too. When you put your foot down, you accelerate smoothly and calmly, but then when you look down at the speedometer, you realize just how fast you're going.

The STi makes similar numbers, but has a more brutal and visceral feel to it. Initial take-off throws you back in your seat... hard. In the corners, the STi communicates to you more effectively than the BMW, which also handles well, but feels a bit numb. Like the WRX, it handles very neutrally but also responsively, just more so. The suspension is stiffer with less body roll, the tires return more grip, the brakes jam even harder. It is all the things I enjoyed about the old STi, just that those things are even better now.

If I had to choose between the BMW or the Subaru, I would go with the Subaru. The BMW is a very nice car… but the Subaru is just more fun

Subaru has not lost sight of their vision when designing these cars. They are still world-class performers, and when the WRC car debuts, I feel confident that Subaru will put themselves back on top where they belong.

I've immensely enjoyed this opportunity that I have been given to demonstrate Subaru's new product, and I sincerely want to thank the Sport Auto Group. They are doing something that other dealerships aren't doing: letting the product advertise itself. A billboard can only say so much, but actual results that show the product's performance go above and beyond that. The Sport Auto Group understands that people shopping for these cars want to know how it performs, and by allowing me to put the car through its paces and bring back trophies, I've been able to SHOW how it performs.

The Sport Auto Group doesn't just race cars though; they're a fully operational car dealership. Owned by Don Mealey, who has been in the automotive dealership business in Orlando for many years, this dealership has the experience and resources necessary to meet its customers' demands. If you're in the market for a new Subaru, whether it be a new STi or a new Tribeca, Sport knows how to accommodate you.

I also need to thank a couple other people who, through this same opportunity, have been able to demonstrate their own superior products:

Rally Armor, maker of mudflaps for rally cars, have graciously given me a PROTOTYPE set of mudflaps developed specifically for the 2008 Impreza. They have held up magnificently, protecting the side of the car while not even receiving a scratch. I destroyed a set of brand-new tires at Homestead in February on the horrible gravel terrain, but the RallyArmor mudflaps looked as good as they did when I first installed them. They make the BEST mudflap out there, and I would not use anything else on my competitive car.

I also want to thank Total-Elf Lubricants, who have supplied me with lubricants for the car. The biggest difference I am able to notice from the driver's seat is in the gearbox. Under racing conditions, normal gear oil will get too thin and the synchros will get reluctant to engage, causing slow shifting or even grinding. The Total oil has done no such thing. I've never had a problem engaging a gear, no matter what the conditions. I stand behind their product, and will continue to use it in this car in future events.

Thank you all for reading this, and please, if you can, come out April 13th to the next Tamp rallycross, and see IN PERSON what this is all about!
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:25 AM   #2
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wow no coments.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:39 AM   #3
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Nice commercial.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:45 AM   #4
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Got a link to results? Action shots? Videos?
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:23 PM   #5
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Agreed. I will also fish around for the final gear and ratios on each one of the gears on the 08 WRX. For some reason, I don't think they are any different than the 06/07 WRX, so I am unfamiliar with what you are referring your comparison to when discussing the "old WRX". From my limited experience, nothing touches the RS or the FXT's 5MT when it comes to well placed tight ratios in 1st and 2nd (what you would be using when rallyXing).

Thanks.

- dow (off searching for numbers)

Edit: So, after looking at the numbers, it appears the 07 FXT has the 06 WRX tranny with a center diff that matches the 4.44 rear. Having driven the FXT, it has tons of getup and go. I am sure the rotated turbo adds some goodness, but I am not sold on the 08WRX yet. I would still like to see more data from those you are running with using the car.



Sources:
---
2006/2007 WRX
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/imprez...tml#mechanical
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/imprez...tml#mechanical
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cars101_07
5speed manual 1st- 3.454, 2nd-2.062, 3rd- 1.448 4th- 0.88 5th- 0.78, final 3.7[edit: I am assuming 3.0 they have is WRONG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cars101_06
5speed manual 1st- 3.454, 2nd-1.947, 3rd- 1.366, 4th- 0.972 5th- 0.738, final 3.7
---
2008 WRX
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/imprez...i2008.html#std
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cars 101_08
5speed manual; 1st 3.166, 2nd 1.882, 3rd 1.296, 4th 0.972, 5th 0.738, final 3.900
---
2007 FXTSC Manual:
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forest...007.html#cargo dimensions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cars101_FXT07MT
XT Limited turbo Manual:1st 3.454, 2nd 1.947, 3rd 1.366. 4th 0.972, 5th 0.738, rev 3.333. Final 4.444
---
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_...2008_-_MY08.29

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The next generation Impreza WRX photos have been released earlier than the embargo deadline by Motor Trend.[5] The official unveiling took place at the 2007 New York Autoshow in April 2007. A 5-door hatch and a sedan version will be available. The engine used is still the EJ255. Peak power and torque as the same, but the peak power will output at 5200 rpm (400 rpm lower)and the peak torque delivery will be at 2800 rpm (800 rpm lower). The 0-60 time for the WRX maintains the 0-60 sprint of 5.8 seconds, like the predecessor, while decreasing the 50-70mph time due to the improved torque delivery. The transmission is similar to that of the previous model, only the ratios are slightly wider in the low gears with a final drive ratio of 3.9 instead of 3.7. The sedan version has a two exhaust outlets while the hatchback will have one exhaust outlet on the right. The car is based on a shortened Legacy platform. The front suspension uses a MacPherson strut setup while the rear is a new double wishbone suspension. The steering ratio will be 15:1. The interior will borrow from the Legacy interior. The US-spec WRX will revert back to a 2-piston/1-piston sliding calipers (dropping the 4-piston/2-piston fixed caliper setup), but have grown 0.1in. larger in the front and 0.1-0.2in larger in rear with premium package. The calipers and rotor setup are the same found on the BL5-chassis US-spec Legacy 2.5GT and Spec B. The wheels will be 17" x 7" and will wear 205/50 R17 all season tires. The gas tank has grown from 15.9 gallons to 16.9 gal. The car's weight has decreased and will be 3142 lb (1425 kg) for the 5 speed manual and 3208 lb (1455 kg) for the 4 speed automatic. The Impreza WRX was sold to the public starting July 2007 as a 2008 model year car in Canada, and in the United States in October 2007. During the New York Autoshow unveiling of the next generation WRX, a spokesman announced that the next generation Impreza WRC will be based on the hatch version of the car. Bluetooth functionality was expected, but is not present in the GPS-equipped September 2007 cars although the manual for the navigation unit contains a chapter on phone connectivity.

2008 WRX Spec
4-cylinder 224Bhp Subaru Boxer Turbo engine
All-Wheel-Drive
5-speed manual or 4-speed semi-automatic racing sports gear shift; manual/automatic
MacPherson struts front, double wishbone rear suspension
Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC) (Replaces Limited Slip Differential)
Brake Assist (ABS)
17" 8-spoke aluminum alloy wheels
Touch-screen GPS navigation system (optional)
4-speaker audio system with single-disc CD player (standard) or 10-speaker w/ in-dash 6-disc changer including satellite radio capability (with Premium package)
Auxiliary inputs for portable multimedia devices
60/40-split flat-folding rear seats
Reinforcement Frame body structure

Last edited by dowroa; 03-31-2008 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Updated with sources.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:16 PM   #6
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Well, first off, one of the things Carlos likes is that he doesn't have to constantly shift gears while racing, which is a big drawback of a short gearbox.

But aside from that, the slightly taller 1st and 2nd gear ratios will have very little effect on acceleration when the final drive ratio is shorter.

Also, even disregarding the final drive ratio, the fact that the boost comes in a lot sooner and provides a lot more power at low rpms will furthermore negate any loss in acceleration due to a very small change in gear ratios.

And please don't use Wikipedia for any serious research. The 2008 WRX DOES NOT have Legacy GT brakes. Not the calipers, not the rotors, not the pads, not any of it. They are identical to the 02-05 WRX brakes. The part numbers even cross-reference.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:28 PM   #7
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I'm sure it's fun, and would make a great rally car, but the 2.5RS still owns all on a rallyx course... and costs about 1/5 as much as one of these. And looks a WHOLE lot better.

Cool car, though, and good for you for actually doing something interesting with it, that it was actually designed for - unlike all the drag racers and pimps around here.
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Old 03-31-2008, 02:42 PM   #8
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Hence the multiple references, but I was just trying to get something done on my lunch. Wikipedia is still a valid reference when used in combination with multiple sources for verification, as anyone should really do when not able to get the information from the horse's mouth (geeze, at least I stated my sources).

Regardless, it is just interesting to know what is there, and how people react to those mechanical differences with driving experience.

Mostly, I wanted to know if he was comparing his experience against the 2.5L WRXes or the 2.0Ls.

Unfortunately, I cannot argue with Fred due to lots of practical experience, but sometimes, straight up numbers and FTC1 FTC2 doesn't always tell the story... as I *know* I have seen a certain Sonic Yellow WRX set FTC1 and a beatup Red RS set FTC2 as well

But, in generally for rallyX, i would like to see this car take on a RS, but I don't see it being faster from practical experience.


- dow
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:15 PM   #9
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How fast will the 08 WRX go in 2nd gear?
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:14 PM   #10
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What about the drivers?

Sure a slower car can post big numbers if the driver in the slow car is a professional, and the driver in the fast car is an amateur.

The first rallycross I ever did, I co-drove my car with Carlos' brother. He has a decent record of his own, and he came in second place behind Carlos in a prepped 2nd-gen Eclipse. He beat every WRX and STi in my beat-up old-ass stock and nonturbo 1991 Legacy.

So, yeah, if you have a very good driver in a 2.5RS and you have a novice driver in a WRX, I would expect the 2.5RS to win.

But a GC/GM 2.5RS still has some 70hp less, an old and wobbly chassis, and outdated suspension. Level the playing field by putting the same driver in both cars, and it would be virtually impossible for the 2.5RS to win.

I really don't think a slight change in gear ratios is going to hurt the WRX bad enough to lose to a 2.5RS.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:20 PM   #11
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Ha. I have yet to see anyone beat an RS with a good driver... ever. Not even close at "SCCA" speeds.

Oh, and yes, with National Level drivers... but I am not stating that I don't like reading the OPs thread.

There are just too much weight and too much wheelspin to the "newer" larger cars.

Hmm... don't want to start a troll fight either. I just haven't ever seen it proved otherwise than teh RS is THE car to have in rallyX, as far as Subarus go.

- dow

Last edited by dowroa; 03-31-2008 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
What about the drivers?

Sure a slower car can post big numbers if the driver in the slow car is a professional, and the driver in the fast car is an amateur.

The first rallycross I ever did, I co-drove my car with Carlos' brother. He has a decent record of his own, and he came in second place behind Carlos in a prepped 2nd-gen Eclipse. He beat every WRX and STi in my beat-up old-ass stock and nonturbo 1991 Legacy.

So, yeah, if you have a very good driver in a 2.5RS and you have a novice driver in a WRX, I would expect the 2.5RS to win.

But a GC/GM 2.5RS still has some 70hp less, an old and wobbly chassis, and outdated suspension. Level the playing field by putting the same driver in both cars, and it would be virtually impossible for the 2.5RS to win.

I really don't think a slight change in gear ratios is going to hurt the WRX bad enough to lose to a 2.5RS.





You just proved your ignorance of rallyx right there. That was unbelievably awesome. Thanks for that.



Wow.

So anyway, does anybody know how fast an 08 WRX will go in 2nd gear? I'm still curious.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:29 PM   #13
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Also - back to the 08 WRX rallyx car that started this thread...

What kind of things have you modified? And why?

How twitchy is it under braking from higher speeds (like around 55-60)? My 05 WRX wagon was pretty twitchy, getting sideways easily.

How well does it pull in the direction you're pointing the steering wheel when exiting turns under full throttle? Or do you have to stay off the throttle until you get straight?

How well does it change direction compared to other Imprezas you've driven? All the WRXes I've driven have felt enormous compared to my RSes. Just wondering if the new suspension helps it hide the extra 400 (500?) lbs.



I like the Rally Armor mudflaps - I have a set of them on my 2000 RS. Just wish they extended downward a little more in the front. You should talk to them about making them with maybe a rubber piece attached that extends down a couple more inches, so that they'll flex in case you bump them on something under compression.

The traction control is pretty worthless on our FXT on dirt. It would be interesting to see how different the WRX is, although I expect it's worthless as well. The 99 RS I just sold didn't have any issues with grip, though, so I don't think an open diff is too much of a liability back there. That could be part of why your WRX turns so well as you stated, because I noticed that my 99 with the open diff turned into corners a lot easier than my 00 and 01 do.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:54 PM   #14
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Hmm... just want to add that I only have taken interest in this thread as I am interested to hear about the real performance of the car, hence the comparisons.

Thanks for all your reporting, RenMaxi, and we would just like to hear a little more of the real "meat" of the situation.

Thanks

- dow
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Old 03-31-2008, 07:55 PM   #15
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Awesome!!! The car looks great. I hope someday I can have the same opportunity to drive and test cars like you have!!!
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred
You just proved your ignorance of rallyx right there. That was unbelievably awesome. Thanks for that.
You're welcome. I figured my COMPLETE lack of experience in rallycrossing would entertain you...





I'm not going to antagonize this ridiculously stupid argument any longer. This is a thread that Carlos is trying to promote the 2008 WRX and his sponsors with, and I - for one - am going to stop interfering with it.

But I am going to say that it's stuff like this that has completely destroyed my interest in the Subaru lifestyle.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
I'm not going to antagonize this ridiculously stupid argument any longer. This is a thread that Carlos is trying to promote the 2008 WRX and his sponsors with, and I - for one - am going to stop interfering with it.

Thank you! Now move along.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:18 PM   #18
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nice ride Carlos, good luck with the rally racing
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:38 PM   #19
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So this is probably the wrong thread for a question like this but I have been wondering... Why did Subaru get rid of the red 4 piston calipers in the new model??

~ Chris
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subyluvr2212 View Post
And please don't use Wikipedia for any serious research. The 2008 WRX DOES NOT have Legacy GT brakes. Not the calipers, not the rotors, not the pads, not any of it. They are identical to the 02-05 WRX brakes. The part numbers even cross-reference.

Not sure where you got your info from but the rear brakes are different from the 02-05. I just tried replacing the pads last night. They are close, but the caliper and brake pad are SLIGHTLY different in size and will not accept the pads form those years. Fronts are the the same as 02-05.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:18 AM   #21
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Since we're getting technical here, the 02 WRX had different calipers from the 03-05 WRX. The 02 had the same ones that came stock on my 2000 RS.



So was this thread just started as an announcement, or was it meant to be interactive? (still waiting on answers from OP)
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:55 AM   #22
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I think Fred should drive one of his fleet of RSes down to FL and show the locals what is up

- dow
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:18 PM   #23
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Bring it on next event will actually be at the european rally school in starke may 17 in florida a real rallycross 6 stages 4 miles each 26 miles in total street legal cars with no cages excepted, come on out and challenge me.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:27 PM   #24
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If it was only a couple of hours away, I'd go play with ya'll. But I hate Florida, so it's not worth the drive to me. West Virginia, different matter entirely - I need to get up there soon. But Florida... (I could send one of my minions - dowroa, perhaps?)

Have fun. And post some video, so I can see if it actually might be worth the long trip & having to endure Florida. Lots of seat time, but is it quality seat time?
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:32 PM   #25
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And...

Quote:
Also - back to the 08 WRX rallyx car that started this thread...

What kind of things have you modified? And why?

How twitchy is it under braking from higher speeds (like around 55-60)? My 05 WRX wagon was pretty twitchy, getting sideways easily.

How well does it pull in the direction you're pointing the steering wheel when exiting turns under full throttle? Or do you have to stay off the throttle until you get straight?

How well does it change direction compared to other Imprezas you've driven? All the WRXes I've driven have felt enormous compared to my RSes. Just wondering if the new suspension helps it hide the extra 400 (500?) lbs.

What speed does it top out at in 2nd gear?

I like the Rally Armor mudflaps - I have a set of them on my 2000 RS. Just wish they extended downward a little more in the front. You should talk to them about making them with maybe a rubber piece attached that extends down a couple more inches, so that they'll flex in case you bump them on something under compression.

The traction control is pretty worthless on our FXT on dirt. It would be interesting to see how different the WRX is, although I expect it's worthless as well. The 99 RS I just sold didn't have any issues with grip, though, so I don't think an open diff is too much of a liability back there. That could be part of why your WRX turns so well as you stated, because I noticed that my 99 with the open diff turned into corners a lot easier than my 00 and 01 do.
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The OFFICIAL 2008 MAIC Rally/Rally-X Calendar! Jard Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC 25 08-17-2008 08:17 AM
Update on the car!!!! GotTurbo Legacy Forum 11 10-16-2007 01:07 PM
Update on the Rally Racer Reality TV Scam- If you signed up and got screwed read here Kostamojen General Community 3 08-16-2003 09:51 PM
Updates on the Rally-X? AaronB South West Impreza Club Forum -- SWIC 10 03-08-2001 06:40 PM

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