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Old 10-19-2007, 04:33 PM   #1
hikeeba
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Default Anyone here use an aluminum water/beverage bottle? And why?

Do you use and aluminum water bottle? Why? Do you like it? Would you reccomend one? Or is it just a trendy eco Euro fashion statement?

I have always been mysteriously attracted to the aluminum SIGG water bottle, but I have never really understood why I would want one. As far as bottles go, I have used the Nalgene wide mouth bottles forever. The wide top makes loading and unloading easy, they're inexpensive, they don't transfer heat and cold as bad as aluminum, they can go in the freezer, and they're durable. But today, I found a SIGG bottle calling to me, and i thought I'd feel out OT, the absolute authority on everything, before I take the $$$ plunge.

Thanks.
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:35 PM   #2
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Ummm what?
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:36 PM   #3
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Ive never liked them or saw the point. I use nalgenes or old gatorade bottles

FTW
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:37 PM   #4
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Ummm what?
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:37 PM   #5
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i had one that came with my lunch box - i recycled it


i just reuse a 24oz arrowhead bottle
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:38 PM   #6
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Allgededly makes the stuff taste better. I'm stilck to my Nalgene.
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Aluminum – Constitutes 8.4 – 14% of earth’s crust – but is of no value in animal metabolism. Aluminum, (specific gravity 2.7) in soda/beer cans, aluminum foil, pots and pans, leaches out in acidic or water-soluble circumstances. There are aluminum additives in cheese products, baking powder, deodorants, antacids, lipstick and other cosmetics, hair spray, pizza, cake mixes and more. Aluminum accumulates in the body over time, and in the brain where it’s considered a prime suspect in various brain diseases, including Alzheimer’s. Coffee tends to aggravate the brain problem, as caffeine increases stomach hydrochloric acid levels. When the stomach fluids become excessively acidic, any aluminum present in one’s diet or in one’s drugs will collect and be transported in the bloodstream to the brain. Coffee is also the major dietary source of cadmium, a toxic heavy metal. Even mildly elevated levels of aluminum can influence memory disturbances in adults and hyperactivity and learning disorders in children. Aluminum plus coffee is especially toxic. (The aluminum industry is a strong financial supporter (influencer) of ARDA, the (American) Alzheimer’s and Related Diseases Association). In many municipalities, aluminum powder (alum) is added to the water supply to clarify it, and in some areas also iron, which can also promote dementia – some localities have correspondingly higher incidences of Alzheimer’s, and other brain diseases such as ALS in Guam and on Kii (Japan) – a 100 fold higher than normal incidence where the ground was exceptionally rich in aluminum and manganese. Children especially are at risk of absorbing aluminum and heavy metals from food, milk and water until the kidneys are at full filtering capacity. All cooking pots and pans should be non-aluminum. Much excess aluminum is stored in bones which, as a result, become brittle.
........
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:54 PM   #8
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^^

wow


i never knew
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:58 PM   #9
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+1 on the Alzheimer's. Screw stupid trendy crap. *takes a sip of Sun Drop from an aluminum can*

Quote:
Originally Posted by hikeeba View Post
As far as bottles go, I have used the Nalgene wide mouth bottles forever. The wide top makes loading and unloading easy
If you're 'loading' into a Nalgene .. ur doing it rong! Just dig a small hole, then cover it up.
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:58 PM   #10
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Thanks bobt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGG
I have heard stories about the safety of aluminum. Should I be concerned about drinking from an aluminum SIGG bottle?

No, not at all. SIGG bottles have been thoroughly tested both in Europe and in the USA to ensure 0.0% leaching – so absolutely no migration of either the liner or the container into the beverage. Having been in this business for nearly 100 years, you can trust SIGG Switzerland to produce products of the highest quality and safety standards in the world.

"According to the results of our evaluation, use of a SIGG bottle does not add to the beverage any particles and/or components which are harmful to human health."

– Dr. Ulrich Nehring, European Institute Nehring
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGG
Can dents in the bottle damage the SIGG bottle's inner coating?

No, the SIGG inner coating is highly elastic. Dents cannot crack or chip the internal lining and the SIGG bottle remains perfectly usable. In fact, many hikers and climbers consider the dents in their SIGG to be badges of honor, illustrating their toughness as well as the bottle's. See 20 year old "trophy SIGG" above.


Can I fill SIGG bottles with apple juice?

Yes. The inner coating has been tested with various drinks, highly acidic fruit juices in particular. The SIGG bottle passes this test with flying colors. Tip: drink apple juice within 12 hours of filling the bottle. Heat and oxygen may initiate a fermentation process, which by the way is natural and can take place in any bottle, regardless of material.
Perhaps I'll break down and try one just to put my curiosity to rest. I'm thinking about a smaller one, maybe a flask. I'll see y'all in the Alzheimer's wing in about 30 years!
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:58 PM   #11
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I only use Sigg bottles for camp fuel.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:18 PM   #12
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Bobturismo: Source, please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/Facts_about_dementia/Risk_factors/info_aluminium.htm
Aluminium and Alzheimer's disease

A number of environmental factors have been put forward as possible contributory causes of Alzheimer's disease in some people. Among these is aluminium.

There is circumstantial evidence linking this metal with Alzheimer's disease but no causal relationship has yet been proved. As evidence for other causes continues to grow, a possible link with aluminium seems increasingly unlikely.

This information sheet looks at the circumstantial evidence and current medical and scientific views.

Researchers believe that, in the majority of those affected, Alzheimer's disease results from a combination of different risk factors rather than a single cause.

Such factors, which vary from person to person, may include age, genetic predisposition, other diseases or environmental agents.

The chief symptoms of Alzheimer's disease are progressive decline of memory and other higher mental functions. These changes are associated with the loss of brain cells and the development of two kinds of microscopic damage in the brain - the so-called plaques and tangles. Plaques consist of an abnormal deposit of a particular protein called beta amyloid between the brain cells. Tangles occur within cells and are formed from abnormal thread-like deposits of a protein called tau, which is normally part of the cell's 'skeleton'.

For a discussion of other factors see the Alzheimer's Society information sheets: Am I at risk of developing Alzheimer's disease? and Genetics and Alzheimer's disease.


Evidence linking aluminium and Alzheimer's disease

The 'aluminium hypothesis' was first put forward in 1965 when it was shown that the injection of aluminium compounds into rabbits caused tangle-like formations in nerve cells.

However, these experimental tangles differ in structure and composition from Alzheimer tangles and the human brain.

Since then a number of other circumstantial links between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease have been claimed.

* Aluminium has been shown to be associated with both plaques and tangles in the Alzheimer brain. Some groups have disputed these claims and, in any case, the presence of aluminium does not prove a causal relationship - it is more likely to be a harmless secondary association.
* It has been claimed that the brain content of aluminium is increased in Alzheimer's disease. However, recent studies in which Alzheimer brains were carefully compared with normal brains failed to find any difference in the overall amount of aluminium.
* Various investigations have suggested that Alzheimer's disease is more common in areas where the aluminium content in water supplies is highest, but the method and results of these studies have been questioned. In any case, the amount of aluminium present in water supplies is minute compared with other dietary sources.
* Studies of other sources of aluminium such as tea, antacid medications and antiperspirants have also failed to show a positive association with Alzheimer's disease.
* People with kidney failure are unable to excrete aluminium and yet they frequently have to be treated with compounds that contain aluminium. Studies of the brains of such patients have shown that aluminium accumulates in nerve cells that are particularly vulnerable in Alzheimer's disease. However, even after years of high exposure to aluminium, patients with kidney failure do not develop dementia or the hallmark pathological changes of Alzheimer's disease.
* Treatment with desferrioxamine (DFO), a drug which binds aluminium and removes it from body tissues, has been reported to slow down the mental decline in patients with Alzheimer's disease. However, the effect is small, the drug has to be given by injection into muscle and it also has a major effect on iron stores in the body. Since there is evidence that iron is involved in age-related 'oxidative' damage to tissues, the effects of DFO may have nothing to do with aluminium.
* There have been many experimental studies on animals and on isolated cells showing that aluminium has toxic effects on the nervous system, but in almost all cases the doses of aluminium used were much higher than those occurring naturally in tissues.

Sources of aluminium

The main sources of environmental aluminium are:

* Food - many foods contain small amounts of aluminium.
* Packaging - food may come into contact with aluminium through packaging or using aluminium foil or trays for freezing, storing or cooking. However, the amount of aluminium added to food in this way is usually negligible.
* Pans - cooking in uncoated aluminium utensils can increase the amount of aluminium in certain foods such as fruits which are high in acid. Cooking foods in coated, non-stick or hard anodised aluminium pans adds virtually no aluminium to food.
* Medicines - many antacids used for treating indigestion contain large amounts of aluminium compounds but normally little of the aluminium is absorbed.
* Water - aluminium is naturally present in some water and, in addition, aluminium sulphate is widely used in the treatment of public water supplies. However, intake of aluminium from water is very small in comparison with other sources.
* Air - some aluminium from the air may enter the lungs as dust but this form is highly insoluble and hardly any reaches the rest of the body.

Only a minute proportion of the aluminium we ingest from these various sources is absorbed by the body, and even this small fraction is usually excreted in the urine or harmlessly deposited in bone which acts as a 'sink' to remove aluminium.

So effective are these mechanisms that it is estimated that the adult human body contains 30-50mg of aluminium - far less than the amount in a single antacid tablet!


The expert view on aluminium

There have been numerous conferences on aluminium and health ever since the idea that the metal might be a risk factor for Alzheimer's disease was first proposed.

The medical research community, international and government regulatory agencies and the aluminium industry all review the evidence at frequent intervals.

The overwhelming medical and scientific opinion is that the findings outlined above do not convincingly demonstrate a causal relationship between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease, and that no useful medical or public health recommendations can be made, at least at present.

It has proved extremely difficult to devise studies which could resolve this problem one way or another.

Alzheimer's is a common disease with multiple causes, while aluminium is widepread in the environment and there are no methods that allow us to measure an individual's 'body burden' or lifetime exposure to this element.

It is possible that suitable 'transgenic' animal models which develop the pathological features of Alzheimer's disease in their brains will enable scientists to determine if such changes are accelerated or exacerbated by aluminium at levels which correspond to normal human exposure.

Alzheimer's Society Information Sheet June 2002
Emphasis added by me. If the Alzheimer's Society (in the UK) doesn't think there's a link, I'm going to believe them.

That said, I carry water in a lexan bottle I got for free the last time I donated blood.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:22 PM   #13
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Bobturismo: Source, please?



Emphasis added by me. If the Alzheimer's Society (in the UK) doesn't think there's a link, I'm going to believe them.

That said, I carry water in a lexan bottle I got for free the last time I donated blood.
That's just an article I found, the one I was looking for was about how the aluminum balls up into a gallstone or a kidney stone, I wasn't able to find one yet.

Either way, the aluminum collects in your body.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:25 PM   #14
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I generally will not buy any eating or drinking equipment that cannot be washed in the dishwasher. I don't have the time, energy or will to wash out bottles.

So if your fancy bottle comes in a dishwasher-safe configuration, go for it, if not, skip it.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:28 PM   #15
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All metals can cause disease through excess, deficiency, or imbalance. Malabsorption through diarrheal states can result in essential metal and trace element deficiencies. Toxic effects are dependent upon the amount of metal ingested, entry rate, tissue distribution, concentration achieved, and excretion rate. Mechanisms of toxicity include inhibition of enzyme activity and protein synthesis, alterations in nucleic acid function, and changes in cell membrane permeability.
http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic113.htm

There's a good article there with data to support it.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:32 PM   #16
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Never heard of it, but it appears to be some sort of ritzy bullcrap trend. My bike waterbottle is a Specialized from a cereal box mail in from the mid 90s and says Cactus Cup 1994 on it. I can't tell you how much mud and filth that thing has endured. I'm still here and not thirsty.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by banman View Post
I only use Sigg bottles for camp fuel.
They are very good for that.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:38 PM   #18
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I just have to


Quote:
In fact, many hikers and climbers consider the dents in their SIGG to be badges of honor, illustrating their toughness as well as the bottle's. See 20 year old "trophy SIGG" above.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:45 PM   #19
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^^My reaction as well. Once SIGG bottles get a dent or two, they look like crap. Nalgene OTOH is almost indestructible.
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Old 10-19-2007, 05:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jds View Post
Bobturismo: Source, please?



Emphasis added by me. If the Alzheimer's Society (in the UK) doesn't think there's a link, I'm going to believe them.

That said, I carry water in a lexan bottle I got for free the last time I donated blood.
He's talking about A-lum-in-ium. You're talking about Al-U-min-i-um.
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:00 PM   #21
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I believe there is supposed to be an anti-microbial property of aluminum. Perhaps that would be another reason (beyond trendy) folks use the aluminum bottle. I can't remember offhand if that was pseudoscience or fact.
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:06 PM   #22
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I'll have to agree with the people quoting possible long-term ill-effects from aluminum. My wife's grandfather is a retired chemist, and he says to stay away from anything aluminum for food/drink...that's all I need.

Yes, the jury is still out on the possible long-term effects to your brain, but why take the chance?
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:24 PM   #23
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I use Nalgene.
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:47 PM   #24
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I don't know what all the hub bub is about. They bake a lining into the bottle.

Besides, I've been using lead cups for years, and there is nothing too wrong with me!
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Old 10-19-2007, 07:53 PM   #25
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Just as in an Aluminium soda can.
There is a clearcoat on the inside of the can, just to prevent this, and the aluminum affecting the taste of the beverage.
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