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Old 07-19-2017, 04:58 PM   #1
KillerBMotorsport
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Default Killer B Motorsport V4 CAST Performance Oil Pan

You may have heard the rumors, or even seen a sneak peek at one of the events we attended this summer, but it's true... We have started production.



New for 2017 Killer B Motorsport V4 Cast Aluminum Performance Oil Pan

Features:
Track Tested High Performance Oil Pan
Thick Walled Aluminum throughout
Advanced Heat Treatment for Improved Toughness and Strength
Machined FLAT Flange Surface for Leak Free Installs
Precision Machined Mounting Holes
6 quart capacity
M20 Port (OEM)
1/2NPT Port
Uses OEM Dipstick Tube
Includes Hardware

Let me know if anyone has any questions
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:38 AM   #2
boostinsticnd
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makes for hard welding oil returns now
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Old 08-30-2017, 01:17 PM   #3
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makes for hard welding oil returns now
Nah. Welds the same as the sheetmetal pans
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Old 08-31-2017, 01:57 PM   #4
Twisty mountain road
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what is the difference in this and your current model (assume both for ej25)
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:41 PM   #5
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Since these are now cast, are they going to be cheaper than the current welded units?
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Old 09-01-2017, 08:49 PM   #6
Aczwild
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Yesssssssssssssss! Racecar was in need of an upgrade!
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Old 09-02-2017, 11:01 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jigga View Post
Since these are now cast, are they going to be cheaper than the current welded units?
We're not a company known for doing anything on the cheap. The advanced casting process we use allows for thinner, stronger, and lighter products.

A good comparison is look at our intercooler end-tank inlet/outlet. We can have a horn shape taper at the edge, a thinner wall provides a larger opening (more flow), and the thin wall means better exposure with less turbulence going into and out of the core.

For the pan is means no tapered walls, which means no compromise to oil capacity, and an small improvement in strength, without a significant weight tax.

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Originally Posted by Aczwild View Post
Yesssssssssssssss! Racecar was in need of an upgrade!
From a performance perspective, there's no change. Both versions can handle anything you can throw at them. The cast pan is now our mainstream product, but we are still making the weld-porn fabricated on a made-to-order basis.
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Old 09-02-2017, 12:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
From a performance perspective, there's no change. Both versions can handle anything you can throw at them. The cast pan is now our mainstream product, but we are still making the weld-porn fabricated on a made-to-order basis.

Perfect. I'm speculating here, but since you're starting to really dip into cast aluminum fab and are more race-centric are you going to possibly focus a little on the rear of our cars in the near future... you know in the diff area
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:19 PM   #9
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Default Killer B Motorsport V4 CAST Performance Oil Pan

Are these shipping already with your 3-piece ej25 pickup, pan and baffle? Thanks
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Old 09-04-2017, 08:13 PM   #10
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Perfect. I'm speculating here, but since you're starting to really dip into cast aluminum fab and are more race-centric are you going to possibly focus a little on the rear of our cars in the near future... you know in the diff area
Rear end? Like what specifically?

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Are these shipping already with your 3-piece ej25 pickup, pan and baffle? Thanks
Yes they are!
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
We're not a company known for doing anything on the cheap. The advanced casting process we use allows for thinner, stronger, and lighter products.

A good comparison is look at our intercooler end-tank inlet/outlet. We can have a horn shape taper at the edge, a thinner wall provides a larger opening (more flow), and the thin wall means better exposure with less turbulence going into and out of the core.

For the pan is means no tapered walls, which means no compromise to oil capacity, and an small improvement in strength, without a significant weight tax.



From a performance perspective, there's no change. Both versions can handle anything you can throw at them. The cast pan is now our mainstream product, but we are still making the weld-porn fabricated on a made-to-order basis.
I'm not insinuating that you are a company that does things on the cheap. I could only make the deduction that since you no longer have a skilled professional slaving over welding up these oil pans from individual pieces of aluminium, and you can now knock these things out like proverbial sausages, savings might be passed on to the consumer. Would you say that casting the oil pans is a more labour intensive process than your previous construction technique?
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by jigga View Post
I'm not insinuating that you are a company that does things on the cheap. I could only make the deduction that since you no longer have a skilled professional slaving over welding up these oil pans from individual pieces of aluminium, and you can now knock these things out like proverbial sausages, savings might be passed on to the consumer. Would you say that casting the oil pans is a more labour intensive process than your previous construction technique?
I think you are solely looking at material costs and assuming after the pour they are completed. There is far more process time that goes into the cast product than the fabricated version. The machine work requires a CNC operator with some experience, so you're also trading welding labor for CNC labor.

Castings require a material cert at melt (samples for the mass spectrometer), the pour, band-saw trimming gates/vents/etc., x-ray inspection, grinding gates/vents/flashing/etc. flush and any other abnormalities, inspection, heat treat to T5, test, heat treat to T6, test, bead blast, then off to machining, post machining inspection reports, welding the baffles, final fitment and QC checks, then washing.

With the previous process the sheetmetal certs from the supplier (made in the USA of course), laser cut, inspected, CNC brake, inspected, fit-up, welding, finishing, final fitment and QC checks, etching, and washing.

We are trading labor for materials and process. The costs are within a few dollars of each other (not including the +$30K we've got into casting tooling costs). The fabricated version price will go up though (and only available directly through us), since they will no longer be production batch made, but instead MTO, so there are losses in productivity.
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Old 09-07-2017, 04:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post

Castings require a material cert at melt (samples for the mass spectrometer), the pour, band-saw trimming gates/vents/etc., x-ray inspection, grinding gates/vents/flashing/etc. flush and any other abnormalities, inspection, heat treat to T5, test, heat treat to T6, test, bead blast, then off to machining, post machining inspection reports, welding the baffles, final fitment and QC checks, then washing.
You are X-ray inspecting these? Have you found any defects? My earlier comment about harder to weld, Is the fact that cast is a dirty metal and much more difficult to weld, 90% of time cast isn't welded its replaced
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Old 09-07-2017, 05:50 PM   #14
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You are X-ray inspecting these?
In my opinion this is an absolutely critical step, especial early on when you're optimizing gates, vents, etc... The casting software simulations have come a HUGE way since they first came out, but nothing replaced real world testing and verification.

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Originally Posted by boostinsticnd View Post
My earlier comment about harder to weld, Is the fact that cast is a dirty metal and much more difficult to weld, 90% of time cast isn't welded its replaced
It's not harder to weld? It requires some adjustments, but lots of cast aluminum things get welded, like our cast endtanks to our intercooler cores We make three different kinds of headers that use a cast collector section as well.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by boostinsticnd View Post
My earlier comment about harder to weld, Is the fact that cast is a dirty metal and much more difficult to weld, 90% of time cast isn't welded its replaced
A whole lot of sportbike motorcycle rear swingarms consists of cast pieces welded together.

Billet is just a huge chunk of cast metal.
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:52 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by spdracerut View Post
A whole lot of sportbike motorcycle rear swingarms consists of cast pieces welded together.



Billet is just a huge chunk of cast metal.


You are 50% correct, Billet is also formed by hot rolling as well as continuous casting.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
In my opinion this is an absolutely critical step, especial early on when you're optimizing gates, vents, etc... The casting software simulations have come a HUGE way since they first came out, but nothing replaced real world testing and verification.



It's not harder to weld? It requires some adjustments, but lots of cast aluminum things get welded, like our cast endtanks to our intercooler cores We make three different kinds of headers that use a cast collector section as well.
Have you found any defects in your castings yet?
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:03 AM   #18
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Gummy bears are awesome, and so are KillerB parts
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Old 09-09-2017, 01:24 AM   #19
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So.. how much are these?
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:24 PM   #20
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Wow some manufacturing experts maybe should build there own! Just my 2 cents billet has to be cast first before it can be rolled or forged.
And the quality of a cast is totally dependent on the person and process doing the cast. Last but not least, go buy that other companies cast aluminum subie oil pan if you think your getting ripped off. Oh wait what company was that?
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:14 PM   #21
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Last but not least, go buy that other companies cast aluminum subie oil pan if you think your getting ripped off. Oh wait what company was that?
ARC made one.
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Old 10-15-2017, 07:06 PM   #22
2slofouru
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-When will it be on your site so we can check cost?

(edited, somehow missed the capacity)

Last edited by 2slofouru; 10-29-2017 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:34 PM   #23
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-Is it lower down than the oem pan / less ground clearance?
-Does the oil pickup tube have to use adapters to lower like on your other oil pan?
-What do the internal baffles look like?
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:41 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by boostinsticnd View Post
Have you found any defects in your castings yet?
No casting is perfect. If you've seen enough billet, even it can have imperfections. The casting process we use produces parts on the high end of the casting scale in regards to capabilities and quality. At this point we've processes just under 500 units and there were 2 units that had a visible void beyond my comfort level. So we hit them with the TIG torch to see how they react. So far, it's been uneventful, adding a dab of filler rod and all is good. a 'bad' void will have contaminants or may be so deep it can blow through the thickness once you apply heat. We've not seen this yet.

As far as QC goes, the parts pass through several hands for visual inspection and x-ray inspection. Anything questionable gets evaluated to determine a coarse of action; back into the pour, scrap, or rework.

Having worked with many castings over the years, I am really impressed with the process. As far as durability goes, I would say these are stronger than our fabricated version.


Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
So.. how much are these?
Same price. The fabricated pans will be having a price increase probably around the 1st of the year. They take a ton of time to make.

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Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
ARC made one.
Yes they did. It was widely accepted too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
-When will it be on your site so we can check cost?

(edited, somehow missed the capacity)
If you buy through the site, you will get a cast pan. We're going to be updating the pics soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
-Is it lower down than the oem pan / less ground clearance?
Yes. It still fit under the OEM bellypan though

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
-Does the oil pickup tube have to use adapters to lower like on your other oil pan?
Yes, when going to a deeper pan, the pickup needs to be brought down with it. We've been using this setup since ~2010 without issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
-What do the internal baffles look like?
Same as on the fabricated units, flow through style. This design performs much better than anything we've ever seen or have test data on. The flat baffles (or worse baffle plates sandwich between pan and block) are horrible, some performing worse than OEM.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:04 AM   #25
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Cool deal. Anyone have a photo of one installed yet, and ground clearance?
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