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Old 01-03-2009, 05:23 PM   #1
drkramm
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Default ceramic coating ..plus heat wrap ?

im getting a turboxs downpipe ceramic coated but i was wondering would getting the header wrap help also ? or just help destroy the downpipe

im gonna talk to the coaters and see what they think too since they are coating it but wanted some other opinons
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:26 PM   #2
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will it help, yes
will it corrode the downpipe faster (due to water being trapped), yes.

you wont notice any problems with it anytime soon however
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:34 PM   #3
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put wouldn't the ceramic coating help negate the water issues?
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:40 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by drkramm View Post
put wouldn't the ceramic coating help negate the water issues?
yes it would. i would still wrap it though. ceramic really doesnt do much at all to hold heat in.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:01 PM   #5
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i would just wrap it

I just saw a header that was coating and its all coming off
I dont see spending a 100 bucks for it just to come off after a year

just wrap it and put that 100 into something else
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtasti View Post
i would just wrap it

I just saw a header that was coating and its all coming off
I dont see spending a 100 bucks for it just to come off after a year

just wrap it and put that 100 into something else

sure that wasn't just heat paint ?
i was under the impression that it will last a long time ( most places i looked at had lifetime warrentys on the coating of new parts
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:24 PM   #7
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sure that wasn't just heat paint ?
i was under the impression that it will last a long time ( most places i looked at had lifetime warrentys on the coating of new parts

nope not just paint its the coating grimmspeed offers

not bashing there stuff at all but hey an extra 100 bucks seem to be a lot if its not going to last

heres a link

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/engine-d...l-sti-lgt.html
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:26 PM   #8
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If it's heat you're worried about, wrap it, don't coat it. OTOH, if it's simplicity and good looks you want, coat it.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:30 PM   #9
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ive also seen numerous pipes with the ceramic coating starting to come off after a year or so. not worth the money as stated IMO
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:37 PM   #10
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not to mention if you CC pipes pre turbo it flakes off and damages your turbo
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtasti View Post
not to mention if you CC pipes pre turbo it flakes off and damages your turbo
I feel like a good reputable coating company's coating wouldn't flake.... i feel like they would get to many suits with this... i personally don't know other than my coating hasn't seemed to flake at all (even on the outside and i ran well over 10k with no heat wrap on my headers and no splash guard and i even when on some light rally riding on dirt/rocky roads in VT and in the gravel/sand/snow and not a single chip or sign of ware on my headers outer coat)

I have GTspec V2 headers/uppipe ceramic coated and i just did thermo tec copper heat wrap and then on top of that the copper spray.

To tell you the truth, before i wrapped them, i could drive around like a daemon and then pull into my garage and by the time i jacked up my car the headers would barely be warm to the touch. This was on like a 50 degree day but still...

but really the issue is keeping in the heat for the two reasons of promoting scavenging and reducing under hood temps/ the heating things that should be as cold as possible (more in the case of uppipe/DP)

DON'T quote me on this but:

I think the coating is mainly to help with the scavenging part (promoting smoother/faster free flow of exhaust gases in the exhaust system by keeping them hot rather than heat dispersing through the metal cooling gases inside along the tubing and thus slowing flow. probably isn't THAT effective at this either but better than not i suppose) but it probably doesn't so much help with the 'not heating the things that need to not be heated' part

in conclusion for the mess above, DO BOTH! can't hurt, tho in the case of headers people argue wether they make them more prone to cracking....i'm not worried about it though, you take risks to gain performance at almost every turn, just be prepared for it and know how you can fix it/how involved a fix would be for a likely problem... either way no big problems with this

my 2

-GreenLantern
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Old 01-03-2009, 07:52 PM   #12
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Ceramic coating works well, mine grimmspeed uppipe is holding up very well. I have the car all apart at the moment and will prob wrap and spray everything
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtasti View Post
i would just wrap it

I just saw a header that was coating and its all coming off
I dont see spending a 100 bucks for it just to come off after a year

just wrap it and put that 100 into something else
correct,U will find that the heat wrap hold to much heat for the ceramic coat(over its heat rateing) what will cause it just to flake off,Some ppl will crap on and say that u got cheep crap coating,but there just dribbleing ****.Ive seen all type's and brands of coating just fall to **** once heat wrap is aplyed over the top.
Its simple,do 1 or there other,not both as u will be just wasteing your cash.

Kris
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:07 PM   #14
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I recomend jethot or swaintech. The coatings also have heat ranges, dont go beyond them or your shooting yourself in the foot. Talk to the people that are doing your coatings. I recomend a heat range that goes to at least 1700* as your exhaust can get that hot. This stuff works, its used in aviation,NASA, WRC, TOPFUEL,US MILITARY ect. They wouldnt use it if it didnt work. BUT use it as the manufacture recomends. As for the grimmspeed exhaust manifold in the link, I can almost garantee that it was wrapped. But you internet "professionals" do what you want to.
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sku81 View Post
correct,U will find that the heat wrap hold to much heat for the ceramic coat(over its heat rateing) what will cause it just to flake off,Some ppl will crap on and say that u got cheep crap coating,but there just dribbleing ****.Ive seen all type's and brands of coating just fall to **** once heat wrap is aplyed over the top.
Its simple,do 1 or there other,not both as u will be just wasteing your cash.

Kris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
I'm pretty sure you can't tap any aftermarket header as the pipes are too thin. Additionally, my vote is for coating followed by wrapping. I prefer Swain Tech over Jet Hot as white Swain Tech headers bling like no tomorrow and it's much thicker than Jet Hot's offering. Wrapping is bad ju-ju for mild steel headers, I'm living proof of that, but I haven't seen any horror stories on here or elsewhere with SS exhausts cracking/corroding with wrap. If you go that route, BE SURE to use their high heat spray to seal the wrap. That spray makes a lot of difference in both heat retention, safety, and durability.
as seen here---> http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689030

hummmm.... I'm going with Unabomber on this one...
if you get a good coating its unlikely to flake off man, not gonna lie, when you said that above it got all sketched out but then did somemore research and became confident again. especially with unabombers words up there
and remembering:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenLantern;
i personally don't know other than my coating hasn't seemed to flake at all (even on the outside and i ran well over 10k with no heat wrap on my headers and no splash guard and i even when on some light rally riding on dirt/rocky roads in VT and in the gravel/sand/snow and not a single chip or sign of ware on my headers outer coat)
and hearing from Kelly at CovertPerformance, a vendor here on nasioc, that the CC on my uppipe was "way harder to get off than expected" while she was working on welding an EWG to my GTspec V2 uppipe

Do what you want man, I'm pretty sure these big name coating companies have special techniques for coating rather than just spraying them down with a spray can.... i feel like, again don't quote me but it sounds like it'd make sense, that they treat the metal with something to help the ceramic adhere to the metal, then they dip the part into molten hot ceramic/coating *stuff* and then probably do a ton of other treatments while its cooling and afterward to prevent this "flaking"

to the OP:
This is just another highly debated question in which some people say it will kill an expensive part on your car and others say its all gravy to do it.... Both are right in certain cases, neither are always wrong. research. if you want to CC and heat wrap (because UnaBomber does recommend and it just seems logically awesome in the fight against heat) then get a very reputable company to coat your headers. Hell Call them and ask them about the flaking issue and heat wrapping (go thermo tec copper wrap with copper spray!!!). My problem is i can't remember what coating i have on my headers so i can't call to ask.

Just fish around homie
-GL

Last edited by GreenLantern; 01-04-2009 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:14 AM   #16
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I say wrap it. It works much better than coatings. I have never had a pipe rust out on me becuase it has been wrapped.

BTW, if coatings are done correctly they will last for a long time. We did a few DP's we had on our cars a few years ago and the coatings are still doing fine.

Tony
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:24 AM   #17
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sorry to keep posting, just trying to get this idea outta peoples minds before it goes to far, it seems like a very unlikely case (tho its not impossible) that people are confusing with things like uppipe cats breaking up and ruining turbos etc...

OP look at that thread i posted in my last post up there^^ where unabomber's quote is from and draw your own conclusions (note posts 12,18,19,20...) its a thread about another issue that turns into a discussion in part about CC and flaking and such

-GL
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:21 AM   #18
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Take this for what it's worth. This is my ceramic-coated (by Sermatech) Turbo XS downpipe just after I removed heat wrap. The thing was coated and wrapped for three years. No flaking inside or out.

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Old 01-04-2009, 11:22 AM   #19
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wow everything held up great with that ..

i ordered the header wrap and spray

now i have to decided on the coating hahaha

they quoted me 23$ a foot for piping (jnztuning.net)
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkramm View Post
wow everything held up great with that ..

i ordered the header wrap and spray

now i have to decided on the coating hahaha

they quoted me 23$ a foot for piping (jnztuning.net)
dont waste the money. coating is good for looks and nothing else.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:40 PM   #21
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spoken like a true internet "profesional" ^
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:06 PM   #22
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spoken like a true internet "profesional" ^
spoken like a guy who wasted his money coating his headers. how about we both go for a beat run. you touch your coated downpipe and i'll touch my wrapped downpipe. my hand will be fine so i can drive you to the burn center.
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:13 PM   #23
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no need to get testie (hehe testie) i know that the wrap holds the heat in better but i also want to help the flow inside the pipe as well .. not to mention i don't drive far ( 2 miles to work) so i know that my exhaust components are gonna rot out that much quicker

and i park in a stone driveway lol rust is my big fear if a 100$ coating will keep the pipe from rotting out for another year or 2 then i think its worth it
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drkramm View Post
no need to get testie (hehe testie) i know that the wrap holds the heat in better but i also want to help the flow inside the pipe as well .. not to mention i don't drive far ( 2 miles to work) so i know that my exhaust components are gonna rot out that much quicker

and i park in a stone driveway lol rust is my big fear if a 100$ coating will keep the pipe from rotting out for another year or 2 then i think its worth it
most pipes are decent quality stainless so rust isnt much of an issue. everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but i feel that a lot of guys pay for coating and they justify it in their head because they spent a lot of money on it. personally, i say no gains from coating and im not afraid to say it was a waste of money. i dont hate on it just to hate on it. if i had a beef with coatings, i wouldnt have shelled out the money to get mine coated in the first place!

edit: i doubt coating will help flow, the insides get caked with carbon after a couple thousand miles anyways.
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:26 PM   #25
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edit: i doubt coating will help flow, the insides get caked with carbon after a couple thousand miles anyways.
agreed... i only have coating because the headers i bought from a guy that they were new and already coated.... i personally wouldn't have jumped on coating to soon out of my own pocket...i just got a good deal

as far as how much gain one gets...who knows to be exact. all that i know is that it aids in the retention of heat in the exhaust gases and provides a protective coating i guess.... i still heat wrapped

-GL
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