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Old 05-16-2007, 10:47 AM   #1
akira02rex
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Default New turbo, td05-20G log inside

I decided I wanted more top-end power and the big16g wasn't enough for this, so I upgraded to Blouch's td05-20G. Contains their td06 compressor side and td05 turbine side for awesome spool-up...as you will see below I hit 20psi by 3800rpm in 3rd gear.

Code:
Time	Engine Speed (RPM)	Air/Fuel Learning #1 (%)	Air/Fuel Correction #1 (%)	Mass Air Flow (g/s)	Intake Air Temperature (F)	Ignition Timing (BTDC)	Knock Correction (BTDC)	Fuel Injector #1 Duty (%)	Air Flow Sensor Voltage (V)	Primary Wastegate Duty Cycle (%)	Air/Fuel Sensor #1 (AFR)	Knock Signal #1 (On/Off)	Advance Multiplier (020124) ()	Engine Load (0219BD) (g)	Manifold Relative Pressure (Corrected) (PSI)
0	3275	-2.34	10.16	27.43	55.4	32	10	6.29	2.22	0	14.47	0	16	1	-6.82
219	3259	-2.34	10.16	34.3	55.4	32	10	7.65	2.36	2.35	14.59	0	16	1.25	-5.949
437	3274	-2.34	10.94	48.45	55.4	32	10	9.78	2.7	16.86	14.7	0	16	1.78	-0.871
656	3335	-2.34	18.75	64.6	55.4	31	10	14.23	2.98	43.14	15.16	0	16	2.25	1.596
875	3363	-1.56	0	74.45	55.4	31	10	14.35	3.12	77.25	14.13	0	16	2.63	3.192
1094	3428	-1.56	0	86.45	55.4	27	10	17.55	3.18	90.59	12.98	0	16	3	5.659
1328	3508	-0.78	0	101.68	55.4	23	10	20.95	3.4	90.2	12.52	0	16	3.38	7.835
1562	3576	0.78	0	117.52	55.4	18	10	25.94	3.56	90.2	11.37	0	16	3.94	11.173
1797	3700	0.78	0	142.19	55.4	10	10	32.36	3.78	90.2	11.25	0	16	4.56	14.51
2031	3786	0.78	0	167.78	55.4	10	10	38.77	3.9	90.2	11.25	0	16	5.34	19.153
2265	3880	0.78	0	176.08	53.6	9	10	43.04	4.02	80.39	11.25	0	16	5.56	20.604
2500	4050	0.78	0	187.07	53.6	9	10	46.65	4.06	66.27	11.25	0	16	5.59	20.894
2734	4197	0.78	0	192.4	53.6	9	10	47.45	4.08	54.9	11.25	0	16	5.56	20.604
2969	4256	0.78	0	194.65	53.6	9	10	47.22	4.1	47.45	11.25	0	16	5.44	19.298
3203	4448	0.78	0	199.82	53.6	9	10	48.39	4.1	47.06	11.25	0	16	5.31	18.282
3437	4534	0.78	0	201.91	53.6	9	10	48.37	4.1	52.55	11.25	0	16	5.28	17.992
3672	4679	0.78	0	209.72	53.6	9	10	50.9	4.14	55.69	11.25	0	16	5.31	18.427
3906	4762	0.78	0	217.04	53.6	10	10	52.82	4.18	56.47	11.25	0	16	5.5	19.008
4140	4867	0.78	0	228.42	53.6	10	10	55.03	4.24	56.47	11.25	0	16	5.59	19.443
4375	4990	0.78	0	236.62	53.6	10	10	58.55	4.26	56.86	11.25	0	16	5.72	19.588
4609	5050	0.78	0	248.84	53.6	11	10	60.33	4.34	60.39	11.25	0	16	5.84	19.733
4844	5201	0.78	0	262.44	55.4	11	10	63.24	4.36	62.35	11.25	0	16	5.97	19.878
5078	5372	0.78	0	268.26	55.4	12	10	66.47	4.4	65.1	11.25	0	16	6	20.314
5312	5478	0.78	0	273.96	55.4	12	10	67.78	4.42	67.45	11.25	0	16	6.09	20.604
5547	5610	0.78	0	283.39	55.4	12	10	69.41	4.46	70.2	11.25	0	16	6.13	20.604
5781	5721	0.78	0	290.86	55.4	13	10	70.78	4.5	72.55	11.25	0	16	6.09	20.894
6015	5734	0.78	0	295	55.4	13	10	70.95	4.5	74.51	11.25	0	16	6.03	21.039
6250	5891	0.78	0	297.22	55.4	13	10	71.64	4.52	79.22	11.25	0	16	5.97	21.039
6484	6068	0.78	0	299.06	55.4	14	10	73.78	4.54	82.35	11.25	0	16	5.91	21.039
6719	6132	0.78	0	300	55.4	14	10	73.26	4.54	86.27	11.25	0	16	5.81	20.894
6953	6260	0.78	0	300	55.4	16	10	73.45	4.56	89.8	11.25	0	16	5.72	20.749
7187	6334	0.78	0	300	55.4	17	10	29.73	4	29.02	11.25	0	16	2.38	14.22
7422	6224	0.78	0	232.2	55.4	12	0	0	4.22	0	12.86	0	16	3.38	-9.141
7656	5403	0.78	0	70.2	55.4	10	0	0	3	0	25.5	0	16	1.63	-9.722
7875	4924	0.78	0	36.52	55.4	10	0	0	2.42	0	24.46	0	16	1.03	-9.722
8094	4235	0.78	0	23.54	55.4	12	0	0	2.14	0	24.12	0	16	0.66	-9.141
8312	3801	0	0	22.02	55.4	12	0	0	2.1	0	24.23	0	16	0.69	-8.561
8531	3403	0	0	19.83	55.4	12	0	0	2.08	0	24.92	0	16	0.69	-8.996

I cannot seem to get the spike out of my boost curve...but seems only existent if I drop the vehicle into a gear and take off. If I go from a 1st gear roll and go through the gears it does not spike.
I had to tighten up my WG actuator rod in order to acheive 20psi because previously it was only hitting 18psi. Turbo was ordered with a 9lb actuator.
Enjoy, because I sure am. This turbo is an absolute MONSTER in the top-end!
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:51 PM   #2
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It is probably spiking because of increasing the actuator preload or because your boost compensation maps need some more work. I have found that if you tune the compensation maps to bring boost up fast then you will usually spike alittle bit.

Also looks like you are sacrificing timing to run higher boost, what are you using for an intercooler? Or is this just a really conservative map as you tune it?
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:13 PM   #3
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It is conservative because I'm afraid of blowing things...more specifically the tranny. I am only running an sti tmic for an intercooler right now.

I figured the boost is spiking because of the preloaded tension on the wg actuator.
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Old 05-16-2007, 08:40 PM   #4
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20 psi at redline is great. You seem to be throwing down the same engine load midrange as I was running 20 psi on my TD04 WRX. You might be able to run a degree or 2 more midrange.

What does you AFRs look like on boost? I would expect you to have a much higher engine load/ torque #.
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Old 05-17-2007, 01:16 AM   #5
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The logs seems nice and I don't see boost spike but I'm not sure why you bring the boost down from 4200 to 5200rpm? What did you use to monitor your AFR? Your MAF seems to have been modified, what intake are you using? You should be able to ramp up your ignition too.
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:49 AM   #6
akira02rex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
20 psi at redline is great. You seem to be throwing down the same engine load midrange as I was running 20 psi on my TD04 WRX. You might be able to run a degree or 2 more midrange.

What does you AFRs look like on boost? I would expect you to have a much higher engine load/ torque #.
AFR is 11:1 - 11.2:1 keepin it safe! This is a 700cfm turbo and flows nearly as much as a GT30
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:28 AM   #7
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Is your MAF scaling adjusted from OEM? You MAFv is only peaking at 4.56v, which is disappointing given the turbo. But MAFg/s hits the limit of 300g/s by 6100, which is frickin' sweet

Keep an eye on EGT's with such low timing

Looks like a fun ride
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelucas View Post
Keep an eye on EGT's with such low timing
+1,

you'll be fine tranny-wise, I've been running a DB TD05H-20G for over 2.5yrs...
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:27 AM   #9
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What is the downside of having the MAF hitting its head at 300 g/s? Im assuming it is leaving tunability on the table...

Log looks awesome though. Happy motor
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX2ning
What is the downside of having the MAF hitting its head at 300 g/s? Im assuming it is leaving tunability on the table...

Log looks awesome though. Happy motor
The 300 g/s is a limitation of the programming in the ECU. Once you hit 300 you hit a wall of engine load and if your actual flow is higher than 300 you start running lean. Then you have to start putting lower AFR targets in the fuel map to keep the AFR safe but the farther you go past 300 the leaner it gets.

When you install a Big MAF or Blow-thru you still have the 300 g/s limitation, except you can now lie on the MAF table and use AFR targets that are much richer than actual to get the AFR correct and keep the resolution of the fuel map.

The OP needs to do the above to regain some of the resolution back, he is hitting 300 g/s on the MAF table way before the MAF sensor is actually maxed out.
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:46 AM   #11
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Ok finally got some replies in here, thanks guys.

First off, there is a boost spike I cannot seem to get out when the turbo hits full spool at around 3800rpm. You can see it hits 20, then lowers to 17-18l, then finally hits 20 again and sustains it.

I DO have a modified MAF table and I'm hitting the 300g/sec limit which I need a fix for. I have checked my intake for leaks and there are none, intake holds 20psi as a matter of fact. So...go figure on that one.

The reason for the 4.56mafv is because it's a 3rd gear pull . If this were a 4th gear (1:1 ratio) pull I would have EASILY pulled past 4.6mafv or even hit 4.7mafv. I also have an sti tmic which is really holding me back.

Testes1010:
Do you have an ignition curve that I could take a look at WITHOUT your meth?

The car is an absolute BLAST to drive, the top-end is absolutely amazing.
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:48 AM   #12
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I know enginuity has a release for the 400g/s limit but its formally released yet. Might be a good guinea pig...

I'm currently mainly running on the UTEC, pm me your email addy & I'll send you the timing table & timing curves.

Last edited by testes1010; 05-17-2007 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 05-18-2007, 12:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testes1010 View Post
I know enginuity has a release for the 400g/s limit but its formally released yet. Might be a good guinea pig...
I've got the fix setup for the A4SGE01C rom (02 usdm wrx), so if the OP wants to try it out and is running this revision (or the A4SGD10C), PM me your rom on enginuity.org (merchgod) and I can apply it. It has been tested on one other car.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:36 PM   #14
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your wastegate duty cycle is too high. see how it hits 90***37; when you hit full boost and then drops off?

start to lower it in your map around 3500 or so to about 55% and see what happens.
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:22 AM   #15
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I fixed the WGDC problem. I initially wanted to hit 18psi and ramp to 20psi at redline but I decided to run 20psi throughout the entire range instead now.
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Old 05-18-2007, 12:38 PM   #16
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Once I get my car switched over to straight enginuity, I'd like to try the fix as well....by then it may already be a formal release though.
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Old 05-18-2007, 12:53 PM   #17
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Testes:
I tried out the road dyno software you posted on Enginuity and I netted 323hp and 322ft/lb

Last edited by akira02rex; 05-18-2007 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:17 PM   #18
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can anyone point me to a good how to about maf scaling....i going to a blow thru set up in week or two and need a little know how about the subject
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:30 AM   #19
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No idea haha. But I would suggest searching or starting a new thread ya hijacker!
Btw, I am using the dataloglab road dyno software quite a bit now and it is very consistent. I am getting 320-330whp and about 295-300ft/lb. Seems like where I should be at.

Update:
I got the maf limit fix from Merchgod over at Enginuity.org.
I have yet to try it out as I'm a bit scared. I probably won't try it out until it gets colder because in this 80-100* weather I'm not maxxing out the MAF anymore!
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Old 06-05-2007, 10:54 PM   #20
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you can typically run ~ 25* of timing when you hit peak torque, so you're definitely running it easy in that dept.

map looks decent from here! im waiting for enginuity personally. they're working on LiveTuning (which is big for me, i rarely log / tune from logs, i like to go by the seat of my pants for that stuff). i'm wondering if i'm gonna be able to hit the 300g/s limit with my VF30. (remember, my setup is HEAVILY modded, swapped motor, ported heads (ported everything actually), cams, EWG, etc etc)...i hit 231g/s @ 13psi with the EWG on spring-pressure.
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Old 06-07-2007, 10:40 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
you can typically run ~ 25* of timing when you hit peak torque, so you're definitely running it easy in that dept.
You must be mistaken.

I've never seen anybody run that much timing at peak boost/peak tq.
A timing curve should dip down from the high timing values in your cruising/partial throttle zones to a very low value...then as rpm increases, the timing will increase.
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
You must be mistaken.
+1.....
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Old 06-22-2021, 11:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testes1010 View Post
+1.....
I know that this thread is very old, but for anyone who stumbles across it like I just did, 10 degrees of timing at peak torque increasing to about 20 degrees at redline seems to be what most people run. Going lower than 10 degrees at peak torque seems to result in knock for some reason with some setups. May want to start with 17 degrees at peak RPM and work your way up from there to be safe.
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by currancchs View Post
I know that this thread is very old, but for anyone who stumbles across it like I just did, 10 degrees of timing at peak torque increasing to about 20 degrees at redline seems to be what most people run. Going lower than 10 degrees at peak torque seems to result in knock for some reason with some setups. May want to start with 17 degrees at peak RPM and work your way up from there to be safe.
If you retard timing too much then the fuel will auto ignite.
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Old 08-18-2021, 04:38 PM   #25
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Why would it auto-ignite?
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