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Old 04-23-2002, 12:25 PM   #51
ChrisW
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Quote:
Originally posted by KC
I don't think that's been agreed upon yet. They've submitted that for members comments.
yep, my bad. As a former DSM owner, it doesn't matter anymore. I feel much better in the land of blue
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Old 04-23-2002, 04:57 PM   #52
Sprchrd
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If I just have Larry's intake on my RS can I run in stock? It just replaces the air filter with a K&N and uses that crappy tube. I don't even remember what the stock air box looks like cause my dad did this mod while the car was his.

I can't compete with the guys in STS who have coilovers.
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Old 04-23-2002, 08:14 PM   #53
ellisnc
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you can run stock but not legally...

maybe no one will care though, worse things have happened though like people trying to run D-stock with ALK's
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Old 04-24-2002, 04:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sprchrd
If I just have Larry's intake on my RS can I run in stock? It just replaces the air filter with a K&N and uses that crappy tube. I don't even remember what the stock air box looks like cause my dad did this mod while the car was his.

I can't compete with the guys in STS who have coilovers.
ITs the DRIVER not the COILOVERS! Many ppl with coilovers probably don't know how to set them up anyway. Concentrate on your driving skills and you will be suprised!!!!
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Old 04-24-2002, 08:11 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by japriljr


ITs the DRIVER not the COILOVERS! Many ppl with coilovers probably don't know how to set them up anyway. Concentrate on your driving skills and you will be suprised!!!!
Thats true...Just by learning the feeling of the car in the corners and how hard to push it...I gained 3 sec, almost 4. Driving smooth is driving fast. Concentrate on how your driving before thinking your car needs a ton of upgrades.
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Old 04-25-2002, 12:00 AM   #56
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This should help most of you. Its a download PDF file, so you need to have Adobe installed.

Novice Class Helper
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Old 04-25-2002, 10:56 AM   #57
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When the drivers are all good thats when I look at mods. I was only 1-2 seconds off the guys that had coilovers and if you guys don't think that makes a difference over the stock suspension then you're crazy. There is only so far you can push it. And making generalizations about, "they probably don't know how to set them up anyway" is dumb.

edit - z3 coupe, thanks for that link. What it says there would make me legal for stock. It's just the air filter element that is changed and a tube that sticks down in the fender that runs up to it. I want to see something that says, "removal of the stock air box."
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Old 04-25-2002, 11:23 AM   #58
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Here's the rule: SCCA 13.10 Engine and Drive Train
"The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced. A replacement element which is taller than standard may not be used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified. "

The filter element is the filter panel itself that resides IN the box.

You can replace JUST the filter. The last part of the rule where they explain "No other components" means the box that contains the filter cannot be removed or modified.

Even on that pdf file it says... "Changed air filter element in STOCK airbox?" Do you have your complete stock airbox without adding anything or taking anything off? If so, then it's stock. If you have done any modifications to the stock airbox, it's no longer stock.

--kC
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Old 04-25-2002, 01:06 PM   #59
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All this talk of protesting... Frankly, I doubt few here can get the most out of their car consistently enough to be beat by an illegal mod (such as debadging, ALK, short shifter). And if you protest someone for their car being debadged, chances are you'll get laughed at by the protest committe because its gives you no performance advantage what so ever. They will certainly not disqualify them for it. And on to the ALK, if someone shows up with it in STS, I wouldn't protest it. Why? Because caster adjustment is legal, maybe the way they're going about it is illegal but the end result is legal. You'd get the same result with camber/caster plates. Personally, I'd rather beat them out on the course than in some committe.

Just my tuppence.

Mark
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Old 04-25-2002, 07:17 PM   #60
icelatte
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Default IC silicone hoses

OK, so for STX I understand that the hood scoop
cannot be changed and the IC cannot be changed.
Does that imply that the stock IC hoses cannot be
changed to silicone ones either?

Reto?
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Old 04-25-2002, 07:46 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tangmere
All this talk of protesting... Frankly, I doubt few here can get the most out of their car consistently enough to be beat by an illegal mod (such as debadging, ALK, short shifter). And if you protest someone for their car being debadged, chances are you'll get laughed at by the protest committe because its gives you no performance advantage what so ever. They will certainly not disqualify them for it. And on to the ALK, if someone shows up with it in STS, I wouldn't protest it. Why? Because caster adjustment is legal, maybe the way they're going about it is illegal but the end result is legal. You'd get the same result with camber/caster plates. Personally, I'd rather beat them out on the course than in some committe.

Just my tuppence.

Mark
Whoa back it up here a second... this thread is discussion of THE RULES. Not... "What can I get away with."

This thread was set up to discuss what rules there are, what mods are legal, and what mods will throw you into a different class.

This talk of protests will happen on a national level (Tour/Pro/Championship... where the rules should be followed) Local levels it's run what ya brung.

If you wish to start another thread of 'I don't think that's right just because I did this' go right ahead. That's not what this thread is for. This is supposed to be a thread if someone has a question about a certian item TO BE CLASS LEGAL, then we'll help them figure it out.

Just that if we tell you that your parts throw your car into a different class, and you disagree, please remember.. we don't write the rules and many of them we agree are silly.

--KC
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Old 04-25-2002, 07:46 PM   #62
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icelatte, you are correct. IC hoses will put you in Street prepared.
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Old 04-25-2002, 08:05 PM   #63
Tangmere
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Default Hello? McFly... Hello?

KC,
Did you even read my post? Where does it say I'm doing anything illegal and trying to get away with it?

Mark
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Old 04-26-2002, 09:36 AM   #64
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Being that the flavor of SM rules are to allow the more common street modifications, we might be successful in petitioning to make the ALK legal.

How would one go about this?
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Old 04-26-2002, 03:22 PM   #65
Dussander
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Question

Quote:
icelatte, you are correct. IC hoses will put you in Street prepared.
Can't you change your hoses in STOCK class?
Quote:
Silicone replacement hoses are permitted as alternate components, provided they meet the requirements of section 13.0 with regard to size, shape, location, and performance equivalence.
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Old 04-26-2002, 04:35 PM   #66
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uhhm those hoses are NOT legal in stock class.

they are ONLY allowed if they are IDENTICAL and I mean friggin IDENTICAL to stock. The Samco hoses aren't even close to being stock so they are not allowed.

-Tom
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Old 04-26-2002, 05:26 PM   #67
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Bummer... I may even actually get my IC hoses one day (go look at Samco Hose Group Buy... only 5 months late).
The main bonus for me with the IC hoses is how much easier it makes putting the silly IC back in. The stock hose blows when replacing the IC. Oh well, another compramise for goofy SCCA rules.
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Old 04-27-2002, 04:19 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
crash bolts are not allowed by the stock rules under 13.8

in SP it should be ok, I think 14.8.F allows for the use of crash bolts and offset bushings to set the alignment.
Then they should be ok for STS, too, 17.8.F in the STS rule has the same wording as 14.8.F in the SP rules.
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Old 04-27-2002, 04:32 PM   #69
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Default updates

Original post updated with changes to STX rules (wheel width, exhaust).

Moderators: Any chance of making this sticky, please? This was started in response to a request for a new sticky about Auto-X rules after the old one became victim of an accident.
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Old 04-29-2002, 11:57 AM   #70
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Default Re: updates

Quote:
Originally posted by TheWRX
Moderators: Any chance of making this sticky, please? This was started in response to a request for a new sticky about Auto-X rules after the old one became victim of an accident.
Mods?

ttt
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Old 04-29-2002, 11:32 PM   #71
ChrisW
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Default Re: updates

Quote:
Originally posted by TheWRX
Original post updated with changes to STX rules (wheel width, exhaust).

Moderators: Any chance of making this sticky, please? This was started in response to a request for a new sticky about Auto-X rules after the old one became victim of an accident.

any moderators listening?


ttt
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Old 04-30-2002, 08:18 PM   #72
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Default proper way to protest...

so, if some guy comes in and races in a local event (no points or anything) and beats you, should you 'protest' and if so what is the 'official' way to go about it.... i don't care that he has a short throw shifter, w/ a snorkelectomy as long as he is finishing BEHIND me, but once he starts beating me, then we have issues.......
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Old 04-30-2002, 08:40 PM   #73
ellisnc
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exactly...

there was this guy running an ITR with a straight pipe this weekend that was really loud... I mean louder than the Mustangs and everything else out there. He was running STX... had he been in my class and won it with me finishing 2nd I'd protest him.

I felt like if he can do that, I'm just going to let my downpipe exit under the car and not worry about a muffler...

I mean what's the point... on an ITR you'd gain like maybe 2 hp by doing that
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Old 04-30-2002, 08:46 PM   #74
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Quote:
I felt like if he can do that, I'm just going to let my downpipe exit under the car and not worry about a muffler...

I mean what's the point... on an ITR you'd gain like maybe 2 hp by doing
Well you can do that if you want as long as it exits after the last cat (in DS anyways) and thats what I do and a lot of drivers do. It gains you a few HP and it also saves 30-40lbs off the car. Thats a LOT.

Check this out, I use this as my reasoning, these are the CS results from last years national championship.

3T 193 Randy Chase 52.102

4T 195 Randy Noll 52.109

5T 92 Barry Ott 52.121

6T 141 Glen Hernandez 52.163

7T 72 Lee Piccione 52.166

The difference in 7th and 3rd was 6 hundreths of a sec. Thats 10 lbs taken off the car, much less then the 30 or 40 gained by dropping a cat back.

-Tom
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Old 04-30-2002, 08:57 PM   #75
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Did someone say track day

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yeah I realized this after I clicked submit and was too lazy to change it.
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