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Old 01-15-2019, 11:17 AM   #1
yoashtrey
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Default USDM EJ205 to JDM EJ205 swap

I have a 2002 WRX sedan which is unfortunately an automatic. I swapped a JDM EJ205(no AVCS) into it and kept the USDM wiring harness. (Changed over timing components, sensors, water jacket, oil cooler lines, etc from USDM). I Believe that the compression ratios for the USDM and JDM engines are 8:1 and 9:1 respectively. (Correct me if Iím wrong, I have read a ton of posts with users claiming wildly different things)
According to Cobb, the car has all the necessary components to run a stage 2 tune so,
My questions are:
Will the different compression ratios, along with the stage 2 mods, blow up the engine as soon as itís started?
If not, Do I NEED a tune in order to start the car up and drive it around the block?
If i get a Cobb AP and a protune, can I use OTS maps from Cobb? Or will I have to get it protuned again if I change anything?

Thanks yíall!
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:40 PM   #2
CarmelValleyWRX
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no its not going to blow up as soon as its started. it might have some knock events at low power, and might have alot of knock at high boost/rpm. so you should not go WOT without pulling some timing out of the high end of the maps. you could probably run a 87 or 89 octane map on it and run 91-93 in the tank and be ok. you could drive it on a stg 2 OTS map and be fine 99.9% just don't go WOT/ boost without monitoring with Det cans and closely monitoring your IAM and other knock parameters.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:44 AM   #3
yoashtrey
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Will I be able to monitor that through the AP?
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoashtrey View Post
Will I be able to monitor that through the AP?
I believe you can see knock count using the AP but you can't do anything about it, COBB pretty much locked down accestuner so only pros who pay COBB can make changes. I bypassed the AP and went straight to opensource pro tune. There is no comparison to a pro tune on a constant load dyno. If you are in a decent sized city you can have a pro tune for less than the cost of an AP. OTS maps are a one size fits all tune, so you can imagine they will be overly safe, COBB has their reputation to think about. Then again, on certain cars it will be less safe than a pro tune.

A pro tune will eliminate these compression ratio questions you have, as they are tuning YOUR exact car. Run the best gas you can find regularly and hit the dyno, nothing compares!
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:10 AM   #5
yoashtrey
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Yeah protune is around $500 and AP is around $650. I just really enjoy the ease of use for the AP and how easy to access the data is. Open source seems like it would be a lot of work and require a fair amount of knowledge when it comes to tuning.
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:59 PM   #6
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open source is easier to access data. any tuning software/system needs understanding and knowledge to tune without blowing stuff up.
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Old 01-17-2019, 06:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmelValleyWRX View Post
open source is easier to access data. any tuning software/system needs understanding and knowledge to tune without blowing stuff up.
Some what true, but to data log to u need tour laptop while the AP all you need is the AP. Loys easier to start and finish over all than opensource
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:47 PM   #8
CarmelValleyWRX
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you really only need to log data while tuning or if a problem arises. i don't think anyone is logging 24-7 worrying about -2.11 Fbkc while shifting... i guess some people do. you need a laptop to tune anyway, and now supposedly you need to be a "cobb technician" or whatever to tune on the accessport.

if you really want you can do standalone logging with the tactrix.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:46 PM   #9
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I guess what Iím shooting for is whateverís safest for the setup I have. I heard on here that Churchís is dependable so I would assume that an open source tune from them would be safe. Would I need to provide my own cable?
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Old 01-18-2019, 02:09 PM   #10
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I would imagine you just show up and the flash it. Any good suby tuner should have their own tactrix.
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Old 01-19-2019, 02:14 PM   #11
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Churchís is 45 miles away. Should I tow the car or just avoid the freeway?
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Old 01-19-2019, 03:35 PM   #12
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its really up to you if you want to risk it slightly or spend money to tow it. i think the freeway would be ok since its low rpm and medium load. the knock sensor should take care of it if its an issue. i just would not go WOT at all and try to keep it lightly loaded as possible.
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:13 PM   #13
whitney32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoashtrey View Post
I have a 2002 WRX sedan which is unfortunately an automatic. I swapped a JDM EJ205(no AVCS) into it and kept the USDM wiring harness. (Changed over timing components, sensors, water jacket, oil cooler lines, etc from USDM). I Believe that the compression ratios for the USDM and JDM engines are 8:1 and 9:1 respectively. (Correct me if Iím wrong, I have read a ton of posts with users claiming wildly different things)
According to Cobb, the car has all the necessary components to run a stage 2 tune so,
My questions are:
Will the different compression ratios, along with the stage 2 mods, blow up the engine as soon as itís started?
If not, Do I NEED a tune in order to start the car up and drive it around the block?
If i get a Cobb AP and a protune, can I use OTS maps from Cobb? Or will I have to get it protuned again if I change anything?

Thanks yíall!
FWIW I just finished up the same swap -- JDM non-avcs EJ205 in a 2005 WRX (Saabaru actually). Started on the second try (first try I had the fuel lines reversed, oops). I also did a catted DP and turbo-back at the same time, so like you I'm worried about knock with the (supposed) higher CR and I'm also worried about boost creep with the freer flowing exhaust.

I have driven it several times while monitoring boost using the Torque app and being sure I'm not going over 10psi or more than 25-50% throttle. It's really been OK.

As others mentioned, I'm going to open source tune it. I'm waiting for my Tactrix to arrive. Probably going to do a stage 2 base map, then learn how to log and start looking for boost levels and indications of knock. Then I'll decide whether I want to mess around with maps myself or pay someone to e-tune it. I'm not looking for massive HP, just some gains a lot of reliability.

Please do post if you ever get confirmation that the JDM non-AVCS is indeed higher CR or not.

Good luck with the first start! Don't worry too much.
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:22 PM   #14
marki458
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Im doing the same swap but cant find a straight answer from anyone. Can you do the swap WITHOUT a tune and still drive it like you normally would?
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:50 PM   #15
whitney32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marki458 View Post
Im doing the same swap but cant find a straight answer from anyone. Can you do the swap WITHOUT a tune and still drive it like you normally would?
If you can wait a few days, I am about to do some logging on my JDM non-AVCS w/ turboback and stock tune to look for knock events and boost error. I'm a relative newbie at logging so it may take me some time to figure out...

Part 2 for me will be a free OTS stage 2 and the same logging. Then I'll decide if there is enough knock from the high CR to justify an e-tune or just adjust timing myself.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:42 PM   #16
gagg maggot
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There is a reason COBB sells different tunes for these motors, I would say NO do not drive it until you have the correct engine management software.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:00 AM   #17
Slo03wrx
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Hello i have a question about these jdm non avcs engines. Are these from a v6 wrx? i was under the impression that all the jdm v7 engines had avcs please correct me if im wrong thanks
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:30 AM   #18
whitney32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slo03wrx View Post
Hello i have a question about these jdm non avcs engines. Are these from a v6 wrx? i was under the impression that all the jdm v7 engines had avcs please correct me if im wrong thanks
I've been poring over the internet trying to figure out what car these are from myself. The "official" guides here on nasioc about JDM EJ205's don't acknowledge the coil-on-plug non-AVCS JDM EJ205, but they definitely exist. There are several for sale on ebay right now, and I have one that I bought a month ago.

If anyone knows what car(s) these are from in Japan please chime in -- I cannot find this info anywhere.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitney32 View Post
I've been poring over the internet trying to figure out what car these are from myself. The "official" guides here on nasioc about JDM EJ205's don't acknowledge the coil-on-plug non-AVCS JDM EJ205, but they definitely exist. There are several for sale on ebay right now, and I have one that I bought a month ago.

If anyone knows what car(s) these are from in Japan please chime in -- I cannot find this info anywhere.
Emailed some of the ebay sellers and got confirmation that the "02-05 WRX EJ205" motors that are non-AVCS and coil-on-plug are in fact EJ208's from 98-03 JDM Legacy GT's. Originally twin turbo. From the ebay seller:

Quote:
This is an EJ208 engine. It is a Twin Turbo long block from 1998-2003 Legacy chassis code BE5/BH5 JDM GT's, GT-B's and B4's
Pretty much confirmed that the EJ208 long block is essentially identical to the EJ205 but with higher compression (9.0:1) pistons. Hence, get a real tune -- OTS base maps will probably not be safe for the higher CR.
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Old 02-13-2019, 02:21 PM   #20
AccessDEANied
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There's also this non-AVCS JDM EJ205, which I used as a replacement in my bugeye:
http://jdmofsandiego.com/product/jdm...urbo-2-0l-sf5/
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Old 02-13-2019, 02:30 PM   #21
whitney32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AccessDEANied View Post
There's also this non-AVCS JDM EJ205, which I used as a replacement in my bugeye:
http://jdmofsandiego.com/product/jdm...urbo-2-0l-sf5/
Pretty sure that's a 9/98-9/2000 EJ207 (v5/v6 WRX STI GC8/GF8). Non-avcs, wasted spark. Sounds like the block on that is identical to USDM EJ205's at CR 8.0:1. With that one at 8.0:1 you can probably use OTS tunes safely. I'm not an expert though, just learning.

To summarize what I currently believe are the sources and CRs of ebay engines marketed as 02-05 WRX replacements:

AVCS, coil-on-plug = JDM EJ205 from 01-06 WRX, 9.0:1 CR (probably)
Non-AVCS, coil on plug = JDM EJ208 from 1998-2003 Legacy BE5/BH5 JDM GT's, GT-B's and B4's, 9.0:1 CR (confirmed)
Non-AVCS, wasted spark = JDM EJ207 from 9/98-9/2000 v5/v6 WRX STI GC8/GF8, 8.0:1 CR (according to wikipedia)

If anyone has corrections to that list, let me know.

Last edited by whitney32; 02-13-2019 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:30 PM   #22
Slo03wrx
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Thank you for the info. I have one more question, i really want to keep a 01+ v7 ej205 short block but i dont want to deal with avcs. Would it be okay if i got a v7 jdm ej205 avcs long block but only used the short block and have my usdm ej205 heads rebuilt?
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:12 AM   #23
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I have read different opinions on the swap. Just wondering on real life swaps DIY and how it has gone
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slo03wrx View Post
Thank you for the info. I have one more question, i really want to keep a 01+ v7 ej205 short block but i dont want to deal with avcs. Would it be okay if i got a v7 jdm ej205 avcs long block but only used the short block and have my usdm ej205 heads rebuilt?
Again, I'm no expert, but from what I have read, all the open-deck 2.0 blocks are the same (except pistons in some cases), so re-using your USDM EJ205 heads om a JDM shortblock should be fine. Just keep in mind the higher CR from the flat top pistons in the JDM block.

However - if you're replacing because of s spun bearing, look very carefully at the cam and cam journals -- on my spun motor, they were trashed (looks like the PO of the car just kept driving after the noise started, trashing everything in them motor).
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