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Old 01-11-2007, 01:17 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkWRXWag View Post
yeah - it fits just fine. I took mine from my 03 Wagon and installed in on the 06 STI. I didn't notice any differences.
Was it the quick fit, or the regular bolt in? I know the regular bolt-in belts would work, but if yours was the quick fit, did it clip into the seat belt recepticles OK? My buddy said that was the problem...supposedly Subaru had changed the seat belt recepticles and the Schroths would no longer clip in. Hmmmm, if I get an '07 STI maybe I can use these belts.
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:24 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by RS_Racer View Post
Did it clip into the seat belt recepticles OK? My buddy said that was the problem...supposedly Subaru had changed the seat belt recepticles and the Schroths would no longer clip in. Hmmmm, if I get an '07 STI maybe I can use these belts.
Yeah - well, they don't clip in anyway. The Schroth harness has a bracket with a hole (at each of the 4 points). On the chassis, each seatbelt harness is held in with a bolt. Undo the bolt, add the Schroth bracket in and put the bolt back in. Unless the Rallye 4 has changed the design in the last couple of years, there is no problem.
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Old 01-11-2007, 01:27 PM   #103
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Yeah - well, they don't clip in anyway. The Schroth harness has a bracket with a hole (at each of the 4 points). On the chassis, each seatbelt harness is held in with a bolt. Undo the bolt, add the Schroth bracket in and put the bolt back in. Unless the Rallye 4 has changed the design in the last couple of years, there is no problem.
Oh, you have the regular Rallye 4 point bolt-in then. Yea, that will work no problem. But they also have some sort of quick fit Rallye 4 point they make for the Subaru's... it clips in and out of the car using the seat belts. Those particular ones don't appear to work on the 2006+ cars because of some change Subaru made (and I thought you had got one to work in yours...my bad).
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Old 01-11-2007, 03:10 PM   #104
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That's funny (not ha ha funny) as the very first bunch of quick fits to hit our shores all had to be sent back as they didn't our receptacles- they revised them and re- sent them- have them in my 04 and love them.

Now it appears we (North America) have gone to the same receptacles that the EU had a couple of years ago- now they'll have to offer two different ones. The good news is they should have lots of the "newer" style ones
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Old 01-11-2007, 03:38 PM   #105
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See - I had no idea there was a new 'quick fit" type My one is crap enough that it works everywhere
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Old 01-12-2007, 12:21 PM   #106
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So some are suggesting the Tarmac 2's, some the zzyxz - who knows enough about both to comment on the pros/cons of each??? Inquiring minds would love to know...

Annie
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Old 01-12-2007, 12:34 PM   #107
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Annie,

The Tarmac 2 has only just been released, so I doubt anyone has tested it on an AX course yet. The Zzyzx utilizes the Koni 8611 DA shock, so is somewhat of a known quantity for AX.

Which one is better - only time will tell.

-Max.
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Old 01-12-2007, 12:41 PM   #108
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On the power side:

How much are people picking up on a dedicated STU tune versus the stock ECU (assumining you already have a downpipe)?
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Old 01-12-2007, 01:29 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banannie View Post
So some are suggesting the Tarmac 2's, some the zzyxz - who knows enough about both to comment on the pros/cons of each??? Inquiring minds would love to know...

Annie
The Tarmac 2s are double adjustable, but have fixed high speed damping in either direction. This means decent street manners. The Tarmac 2s are about 1/2 the price of the ZZYZX. There is some question that the Tarmac 2s would work well with 12k/10k springs. With street tires, you may not want quite that much spring. The Tarmac 2s are single height adjustable, meaning to have to add spring preload if you want to lower the car, sacrificing some travel in the process. I believe the rear ZZYZX have helper springs to keep fom lifting legs. THe Tarmac 2 is a stamped steel design, implying slightly heavier components.

The ZZYZX are a true motorsports design and use the Koni 8611 DA. That means double adjustability, but the high speed dampening is adjusted with the low. You probably wont get the street manners out of the Koni that you can with the ZZYZX. On the other hand, these shocks are totally in their element with 12k/10k springs. While ZZYZX's setup seems sorted, I havent seen them arrive with brake-hose brackets, wire brackets, and other niceties that lend them to "swap on in a couple hours and drive accross the US." The ZZYZX has a slotted top and bottom hub bolt hole, making it a liiiittle easier to get big meaty tires on the car. This doesnt matter in STU THe ZZYZX are double height adjustable, which means you can preserve 100% of your travel (and as little preload as you like) while adjusting ride height. The ZZYZX are aluminum bodies and flanges, for nice light weight blingy goodness. I believe the ZZYZX come with your choice of springs.

The double adjustable Ohlins Flag series seem to have the ability to work with 12/10k springs, are inverted, and have fixed decently comfy high speed dampening for the street. The Ohlins come with front camber plates and rear non-adjustable plates. The Ohlins have an external resevior for whatever thats worth. They are double height adjustable, and are aluminum bodied, flanged, and resevoired. They come with 8k front 6.5k rear springs, which seem pretty decent for Oregon streets, but you may find yourself wanting 7 or 7.5k in the rear for AutoX (Ryan and James can help with that). (Standard 2.5" springs like everything here, available from Groundcontrol for $59 a spring.) The Ohlins don't have a helper spring, but Ohlins claims that a helper spring wouldnt work since it couldnt overpower the valving and big swaybar, AND would get in the way of tire clearance.

I chose the Ohlins for SM, since I have to drive on them every day, wanted a totally bolt-in solution, wanted the ability to throw on 12k springs without revalving, and like the dual height adjustability. I don;t know if I'll lift a leg yet, but I'll have to get over it if I do, since I dont have a readily available solution. I do like that I can put the 275 tires right up against the dampener and keep a 7" spring above the tire in the rear. I got a great deal from racecompengineering.com for the Ohlins, but prices have gone up and they are looking mighty pricey.

Good luck and see you out there

Chris

Last edited by RainMaker; 01-12-2007 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 01-12-2007, 01:43 PM   #110
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Chris, thanks for the detailed response, that was helpful!

Decisions, decisions...
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:08 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The Tarmac 2s are double adjustable, but have fixed high speed damping in either direction. This means decent street manners.
The T2's focus on the low speed bump adjustment and as you mention the high speed is set at the factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The Tarmac 2s are about 1/2 the price of the ZZYZX.
Yes they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The Tarmac 2s are single height adjustable, meaning to have to add spring preload if you want to lower the car, sacrificing some travel in the process. I believe the rear ZZYZX have helper springs to keep fom lifting legs.
You are correct that since the T2's don't have a separate height adjustment, you need to change height with the spring perch. To lower the car you need to reduce spring preload but as we all know, if you get much lower than 13.5" you'll have funky suspension geometry that we can't fix within the ST_ rules. The T2's can handle this amount of drop without any issues. The T2's also have helper springs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The ZZYZX are a true motorsports design and use the Koni 8611 DA. That means double adjustability, but the high speed dampening is adjusted with the low.
With the 8611 the bump adjustment is a high speed adjustment. Along with it comes some low speed since they can't be completely separated. I was told by Koni and ProParts that the low speed change is at most 25% of the high speed change. So if you made a full turn on the bump you will have one turn of high speed and only 1/4 turn of low speed. With the T2's, any adjustment will be low speed. High speed is for pot holes. Low speed is for motorsports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The ZZYZX has a slotted top and bottom hub bolt hole, making it a liiiittle easier to get big meaty tires on the car.
The T2's also have slotted mounting holes to allow us to take advantage of the new ST_ camber rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
The Ohlins have an external resevior for whatever thats worth.
So does one end of the T2's.

All three of these coilovers (Ohlin Flags, RCE T2's, Zzyzx) are going to be awesome. If money is no object then some Koni 28s or triple adjustable Motons or Penskes would be the next category up the price range.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:56 PM   #112
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What is the process for getting Tarmac T2s rebuilt?
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:17 PM   #113
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They're built by KW- so I would guess KW NA would take care of them
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:29 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
While ZZYZX's setup seems sorted, I havent seen them arrive with brake-hose brackets, wire brackets, and other niceties that lend them to "swap on in a couple hours and drive accross the US."

Chris
That's what zip ties are for. So it's "swap on in a couple hours + five minutes and drive across the U.S."

If I was going to build a car to go to nationals in STU...

ZZYZX coilovers
450 lb/in front, 450 lb/in rear
Whiteline 27mm front swaybar (set to soft)
Whiteline 24mm rear swaybar

...and then of course all the other little bits and pieces. But those are the most important ones.
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:51 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Solotoy View Post
High speed is for pot holes. Low speed is for motorsports.
Guess I'll just have to hang with the potholes until I can crawl out of the ditch and start participating in motorsports.
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Old 01-18-2007, 03:25 PM   #116
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Old 01-18-2007, 03:30 PM   #117
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Old 01-18-2007, 03:32 PM   #118
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There that's 3. Now I hope I can post a new thread.

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Old 01-23-2007, 05:13 PM   #119
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Why would people want to go with a higher roll resistance in the front? Wouldn't you want more roll resistance in the rear since the STI's DCCD puts out more power to the rear wheels?
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:24 PM   #120
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Why would people want to go with a higher roll resistance in the front? Wouldn't you want more roll resistance in the rear since the STI's DCCD puts out more power to the rear wheels?
Search "camber curve"
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:01 PM   #121
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Search "camber curve"
I know about the camber curve issue. However the rear suspension is also a strut suspension, so it should have camber curve issues too, no?
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:25 PM   #122
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I know about the camber curve issue. However the rear suspension is also a strut suspension, so it should have camber curve issues too, no?
Yes, but you want the rear to rotate. Rear grip isn't an issue in an STi.
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:36 PM   #123
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I know about the camber curve issue. However the rear suspension is also a strut suspension, so it should have camber curve issues too, no?
The rear wheels aren't on a control arm; they are on lateral links. There might be a camber curve, but with stiffer springs, less weight, and the fact that they are not trying to change the direction of the car means that it is really not much of an issue.

I tend to treat the setup of most Subarus like a FWD car: Focus on front grip first and the rest will follow. Only with an STi one has the magic center diff so that changes what happens on power versus a FWD car. If Annie has two National titles and a ProSolo title, she certainly won't need driving advice and very little in the way of setup advice.

Annie,

I'd make this parts list:
-Zyzzyx coilovers. See if you can get them with 28s perhaps? If you're too impatient for those (depends on how partial you are to Koni) then go for Ohlins/etc. This is assuming you don't want to head into the stratosphere on strut costs and go for Motons/Penskes.
-Swaybars. Pair these to match up the coilovers, depending on if you like bigger bars and softer springs or vice versa. I like bigger bars and a little less spring personally as it means better daily driveability. Locally you will be fast either way. Whitelines are proven, any other suggestions sell a fraction as many.
-Endlinks. The stock are metal pillowball endlinks. They don't exactly have much give despite the huge aftermarket for other endlinks (WRXs and RSs have crappier endlinks in rear and sometimes front is why the market is so large.) If you don't install the rear bar correctly, it'll flip and bend the endlinks, so a purchase of rear endlinks may become necessary, but initially is not in my opinion. Your preference really.
-8" wide wheels, Enkei RPF01 for just over $1k for the set. Quite light really and for the money absolutely cannot be beat. You already know that the sky is the limit here too, but as you said you are keeping the stock seats I will presume you aren't looking for the last 5lbs off of the car.
-Yoko Advan Neovas. I can't recall if you need the 235, 240, or 245 as width changes a bit but height changes dramatically.
-Turbo-back exhaust. There are likely plenty of STX/STU Subarus in your area; nobody has proven to have more or less power by any significant amount with any of them to be honest. 1 high-flow cat of course required for STU.
-Before turbo exhaust: Better response and less lag without headers; a few pounds off the front of the car with them. Careful on trading that; I'd stick with stock. Port stock manifolds if you truly have the itch to optimize the exhaust further as that will make the best power and have the best response. Don't know that swapping the stock uppipe is necessary, I'd not bother for quite a while...if ever.
-K&N Typhoon intake. Subaru ripped it off and called it the SPT, down to the heat shielding. Slap it in, and then modify the shield to extend fully to the hood.
-Engine management. You're waiting here so the debate on that can begin later...and it's a pretty big debate for those options.

Other pieces for feel, not so much speed:

-Engine and transmission mounts. Go find Group N mounts, which are the rally homologated mounts. This will prevent the engine from whacking the hood on hard launches, etc.
-Trunk monkey. Always necessary.
-Bushings. You can swap out bushings for poly all over the place. Easiest and cheapest being the aforementioned steering rack. Previous models of Imprezas (before '05) had floating racks where swapping the jello factory bushings out for poly ones made a great deal of difference in mid-corner feedback and feel. 05 and later racks are bolted down on one side so the ROI is far more limited, but bushings are still made for it. Control arms, rear links, etc are all going to be limited ROI as well. (Note that the engine and transmission mounts will make a much greater difference than any other type replacement of bushing thus why I mentioned them earlier.)

Setup

-Maximize front camber first; don't be afraid of big numbers such as -3 to -4.5. If you really make a lot of time in your braking (and some do) then less here might be more.
-On the limit, it is basically going to push. If you eliminate that completely it should be undriveable in a lot of other places so just expect it.
-Lowering the car will make the camber curve quite awful. Lower as little as absolutely possible as the gains will absolutely not outweigh the positives. Front fenders are cut higher than the rear so the side profile always has the appearance of having the front of the car in the air.

Good luck.

-Biggly
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:55 PM   #124
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Hrmm, I guess I'm confused a little. When reading the STX set-ups, the national competitors were using higher rates of spring in the rear and larger swaybars in the rear. I figured if the WRX was setup like that by national competitors, then why not the STI given the additional power put out by the rear wheels compared with the front.

Annie: Sorry if I'm sorta hijacking your old thread, but on the otherhand at least something may come to light from this discussion.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:23 PM   #125
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Biggly, thanks for the input.

I've been pestering poor Steve at zzyzx with every question under the sun and I think I'm about ready to write the check - he is just dang good when it comes to customer service. I really like the concept behind the Tarmac 2's but with them being an unknown, I don't feel like being the pioneer. I'm hoping if I end up with a known quantity setup that others have, that we can share setup information - while I have jackets and more trophies than I can keep track of, virtually all are in stock class, so I do need info/advice etc when branching into the wild world of non-stock...

And Impreza01, no worries on hijacking - it's interesting to see people ask and get answers to questions.

Hey all - I tried finding the 17x9 Kosei's on Tire Rack's website and it just doesn't want to let me find them - when I put in the '07 STI it doesn't give it as an option, and going right to the Kosei part of their website I can't look at sizing until I again put in the car info. Help???
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