Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Service & Maintenance

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2013, 08:17 PM   #126
RavensFan7
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 346388
Join Date: Feb 2013
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: PA
Vehicle:
2001 Ej205 Impreza L
SRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post

I would suspect it's not actually gear oil, though it's possible it sheared that much. The gear oil from my dad's Allroad came back at 9.92 cSt after 145k mi.

Many MTLs these days are just liquid delivery systems for anti-wear and friction modifier additives, and are really thin. OEM lubes from VW, Honda, GM and Ford are all like this. The commercial version of the GM fluid is Pennzoil Syncromesh. I'd bet the dealer used a MTL rather than gear oil because they didn't understand (or didn't care about) the unique requirements of a Subaru AWD gearbox.
Well, ALL that dealer sold was Subaru's so he should have know better.

I personally drained that oil, and believe me, it was gear oil or something similar. You don't forget the first time you smell that **** and get it on your hands lol.
Maybe gear and motor oil mixed....who knows.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by RavensFan7; 07-17-2013 at 09:46 PM.
RavensFan7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 07-18-2013, 08:21 AM   #127
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT
20 OB Onyx XT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post

I would suspect it's not actually gear oil, though it's possible it sheared that much. The gear oil from my dad's Allroad came back at 9.92 cSt after 145k mi.

Many MTLs these days are just liquid delivery systems for anti-wear and friction modifier additives, and are really thin. OEM lubes from VW, Honda, GM and Ford are all like this. The commercial version of the GM fluid is Pennzoil Syncromesh. I'd bet the dealer used a MTL rather than gear oil because they didn't understand (or didn't care about) the unique requirements of a Subaru AWD gearbox.
Would an MTL have zinc that low though? I thought AW levels were only 30-40% lower in MTL's than GL-5's. That looks like the junk that PQIA would issue an advisory on.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/

He probably would have better off with any 5W-20 engine oil in the tranny.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 07-18-2013 at 10:20 AM.
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 10:32 AM   #128
gpshumway
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43950
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
07 OBXT
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Would an MTL have zinc that low though? I thought AW levels were only 30-40% lower in MTL's than GL-5's. That looks like the junk that PQIA would issue an advisory on.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/

He probably would have better off with any 5W-20 engine oil in the tranny.

-Dennis
I dunno. The EP additives in MTL and gear oil are not necessarily zinc compounds. Sulfur is what gives them that acrid smell.

Honda may very well agree with you. The OM for my Civic says if you can't find Honda MTL, use 10w30!
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 03:03 PM   #129
pkluong
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 341113
Join Date: Dec 2012
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Vehicle:
2013 WRX
Dark Grey Metallic

Default

This is my UOA in my 2013 wrx after 8000 Miles on the motor after its first oil change. The dealer replaced factory fill at 39xxmiles with subaru full synthetic (or so I think they did lol). I replaced the oil to get this sample to Blackstone at 79xx with Pennzoil ultra.

Enjoy.

Link and image below

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Cq...it?usp=sharing



Here is the thread I made for it: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2530257
pkluong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 06:55 PM   #130
kabz
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 351744
Join Date: Mar 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Northwest Houston
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
SRR

Default

Link to my 1st UOA: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=21

Here's my 2nd UOA at 7500 miles on the car, 3500 give or take on the Subaru 5w30 synthetic.



The Subaru stuff is looking pretty decent. Holding viscosity at least.
kabz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 09:23 PM   #131
Toombs
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340935
Join Date: Dec 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2001 RS
2013 WRX STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabz View Post
Link to my 1st UOA: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=21

Here's my 2nd UOA at 7500 miles on the car, 3500 give or take on the Subaru 5w30 synthetic.

*PICTURE*


The Subaru stuff is looking pretty decent. Holding viscosity at least.
Yea, it's not too bad. Did you monitor your dipstick levels for this interval? I'm currently on the same oil and burned about 1/2 a quart in 3k miles. Certainly it dropped in 1k-2k mileage,has been steady 2k~+ ... but I haven't really driven too hard on the oil in 2k-3k range.

I'm curious on how you've driven your car as I think it has result on the oil. I'll replacing my oil soonish in about 500 miles, so we compare nearly same interval mileage.
Toombs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #132
kabz
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 351744
Join Date: Mar 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Northwest Houston
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
SRR

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toombs View Post
Yea, it's not too bad. Did you monitor your dipstick levels for this interval? I'm currently on the same oil and burned about 1/2 a quart in 3k miles. Certainly it dropped in 1k-2k mileage,has been steady 2k~+ ... but I haven't really driven too hard on the oil in 2k-3k range.

I'm curious on how you've driven your car as I think it has result on the oil. I'll replacing my oil soonish in about 500 miles, so we compare nearly same interval mileage.
I like to nail it up on-ramps, but mostly 65-75 commuting in the morning (ambient about 80F) and 30 - 50 mph in the evenings (ambient about 100F). Keep revs under 3000 til fully warmed up. 60 miles a day, with some little local runs. Wear metals look a bit less than some comparable UOAs.

On this last oil fill, and on the current one, the levels when hot dropped pretty quick to about 4mm below the full dot (F) and stayed there, no apparent usage for most of the OCI. It used some oil on the factory fill and was topped up a little.

The viscosity looked a bit thin when hot as the oil comes off the dipstick like water, but the UOA looks good. I check all the fluids hot when I fill up, and I had to top up about a teacup of coolant about 3500 miles, but nothing since then.

I'm happy with this. The Subaru synthetic looks good for light duty.

Last edited by kabz; 07-24-2013 at 09:50 PM. Reason: added coolant note
kabz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 07:43 AM   #133
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT
20 OB Onyx XT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabz View Post
Link to my 1st UOA: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=21

Here's my 2nd UOA at 7500 miles on the car, 3500 give or take on the Subaru 5w30 synthetic.

The Subaru stuff is looking pretty decent. Holding viscosity at least.
You car is breaking in pretty quickly compared to some. Your viscosity probably held up because of the residual factory moly.

-Dennis
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 11:07 AM   #134
gpshumway
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43950
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
07 OBXT
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabz View Post
I like to nail it up on-ramps, but mostly 65-75 commuting in the morning (ambient about 80F) and 30 - 50 mph in the evenings (ambient about 100F). Keep revs under 3000 til fully warmed up. 60 miles a day, with some little local runs. Wear metals look a bit less than some comparable UOAs.

On this last oil fill, and on the current one, the levels when hot dropped pretty quick to about 4mm below the full dot (F) and stayed there, no apparent usage for most of the OCI. It used some oil on the factory fill and was topped up a little.

The viscosity looked a bit thin when hot as the oil comes off the dipstick like water, but the UOA looks good. I check all the fluids hot when I fill up, and I had to top up about a teacup of coolant about 3500 miles, but nothing since then.

I'm happy with this. The Subaru synthetic looks good for light duty.
Interesting that you observed consumption early in the OCI, and then none, most of the time it's the opposite, no consumption for most of the OCI, then a sudden increase.

I agree, the last couple of UOAs on the Subaru 5w30 look pretty good from a viscosity perspective, the TBN still looks weak however. It's possible that the oil is an "overbased" lube which stabilizes at TBN of ~2.0 for a long time, but someone is going to have to be the 7,500 mile guinea pig to inform the rest of us.

Now if only we had some confidence which product is in a given bottle. I suspect the best Subaru 5w30 UOAs are with the API SN/ILSAC GF-5 variety of the oil. Unfortunately, Subaru has a habit of shipping GF-5 oil in bottles labeled GF-4, so it's hard to tell by the bottle if you have the new, better stuff or old stock of the inferior GF-4 stuff. It's likely that the old stock is gone by now though, so not much to worry about.
gpshumway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 09:59 PM   #135
pkluong
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 341113
Join Date: Dec 2012
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Vehicle:
2013 WRX
Dark Grey Metallic

Default

Interesting.... So you commute in traffic? Or constant 60-75mph.
pkluong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 10:47 PM   #136
kabz
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 351744
Join Date: Mar 2013
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Northwest Houston
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
SRR

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkluong View Post
Interesting.... So you commute in traffic? Or constant 60-75mph.
Traffic is fast in the morning! And slow in the evening.

And my mileage has trended up over the break-in (0 - 8000 miles so far):

kabz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 01:29 PM   #137
psupunk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 315560
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: OKC 'Burbs
Vehicle:
2013 WRX-5dr-Limited
CBS

Default

First oil change on a 2013 WRX. Seems to have sheared pretty significantly in <3k miles.



First oil change was free at dealer... they looked at me pretty strangely when i asked for them to catch a sample of the used oil

As you can tell, i don't drive much (4.1 mile commute to work each way; i got the car in January, so ~400 miles/month). I plan to change my own oil from now on, with the next change being in ~6 months (probably ~2500 miles later). I'm leaning toward using a gallon of the OEM Subaru 5W-30 syn, then topped off (0.5 - 0.8 quarts i hear) with Rotella T6. I want to keep that warranty in tact... Seem reasonable?

Last edited by psupunk; 08-21-2013 at 01:34 PM. Reason: more info
psupunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 03:57 PM   #138
oaklandish_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 267339
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Ostinato Rigore
Vehicle:
2002 0[[XXXXoXXXX]]0
MBP LongRoof

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by psupunk View Post
As you can tell, i don't drive much (4.1 mile commute to work each way; i got the car in January, so ~400 miles/month).

I plan to change my own oil from now on, with the next change being in ~6 months (probably ~2500 miles later). I'm leaning toward using a gallon of the OEM Subaru 5W-30 syn, then topped off (0.5 - 0.8 quarts i hear) with Rotella T6. I want to keep that warranty in tact... Seem reasonable?
Not bashing:

With that daily commute, you're probably not even getting the coolant up to temp, never mind the oil. You need that heat to boil off moisture, else it's staying in your engine . Also, research new car engine break-in; you are on track for the weakest break-in in history.

Warranty? So, you'll either show them the SOA oil receipt that is for 4 qts. (looks like you under-filled each OCI; unless you are buying like 34 quart bottles at a time) or the SOA + RT6 receipt, and then it looks like you used unapproved oil. Adios power train warranty. If your gonna blow your warranty, might as well use straight RT6...

Do more reading, there are better oils that meet your warranty needs...or buy "appropriate" oils, copy the receipt in case of future claims, return piss-water and buy better "unapproved" oil. Any oil that goes from 30 to 20 weight in only ~2500 miles is NOT the right oil for you. Less than a quart of RT6 is not going to save yer butt.

It's not too late - do more research. GL bro.

Last edited by oaklandish_WRX; 08-21-2013 at 03:59 PM. Reason: moar
oaklandish_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 05:44 PM   #139
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT
20 OB Onyx XT

Default

IIRC, the Subaru oil starts with a viscosity of around 10.5/10.6 cst's at 100C so the oil sheared very little.

oaklandish, even though it doesn't exist the manual allows conventional 5W-40 for replenishment. I would say it's fine to top off with RT6.

-Dennis
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 07:16 PM   #140
psupunk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 315560
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: OKC 'Burbs
Vehicle:
2013 WRX-5dr-Limited
CBS

Default

Thanks guys. I have been somewhat concerned that my short commute may be bad for the car, but note that my work commute accounts for less than half my mileage, so there are plenty of other trips that are longer. Also, those 4 miles take ~12 min in the morning and ~15 in the evening, so it's not super short. Also also, there was no water in my oil, so it must be doing fairly well at boiling it off.

I think i'll keep doing UOAs, and if something raises a red flag, i may try to make sure i throw a nice long jaunt through some fun roads once a week into the schedule
psupunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 07:25 PM   #141
oaklandish_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 267339
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Ostinato Rigore
Vehicle:
2002 0[[XXXXoXXXX]]0
MBP LongRoof

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
IIRC, the Subaru oil starts with a viscosity of around 10.5/10.6 cst's at 100C so the oil sheared very little.

oaklandish, even though it doesn't exist the manual allows conventional 5W-40 for replenishment. I would say it's fine to top off with RT6.

-Dennis
First, lots of respect to you and others here and at BITOG.

A quick read thru earlier posts in this thread had other, also well respected, folks worrying about a 25% rate of shear for an oil. This FF, tho heavy on moly as others have seem to have found, sheared ~30% to a 20W in well less than the recommended OCI. Will that change as the eng breaks in?

thanks!
oaklandish_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 07:51 PM   #142
Toombs
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340935
Join Date: Dec 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2001 RS
2013 WRX STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by psupunk View Post
First oil change on a 2013 WRX. Seems to have sheared pretty significantly in <3k miles.

*snip image*

First oil change was free at dealer... they looked at me pretty strangely when i asked for them to catch a sample of the used oil

As you can tell, i don't drive much (4.1 mile commute to work each way; i got the car in January, so ~400 miles/month). I plan to change my own oil from now on, with the next change being in ~6 months (probably ~2500 miles later). I'm leaning toward using a gallon of the OEM Subaru 5W-30 syn, then topped off (0.5 - 0.8 quarts i hear) with Rotella T6. I want to keep that warranty in tact... Seem reasonable?
How did you prepare your sample?
Like I mean, did you get the car up to operating temp when you reached the dealership when the sample was taken, or was it another short trip?

I suppose even if it was a short trip sample, it would be more accurate to your driving.

GF-5 Subaru 5w-30 should be 11.28cst @ 100C. Nearly 30% shear rate if you take psupank numbers! It's not fair to compare FF to that oil though.
Toombs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 08:49 PM   #143
oaklandish_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 267339
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Ostinato Rigore
Vehicle:
2002 0[[XXXXoXXXX]]0
MBP LongRoof

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toombs View Post
GF-5 Subaru 5w-30 should be 11.28cst @ 100C. Nearly 30% shear rate if you take psupank numbers! It's not fair to compare FF to that oil though.
According to the lab report that *was* his FF. 2871 on oil, 2871 on unit.

Or, are you saying that the GF-5 5w-30 will be better than the FF he posted the UOA on? Me dense this time of dey...
oaklandish_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 09:15 PM   #144
Toombs
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340935
Join Date: Dec 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2001 RS
2013 WRX STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oaklandish_WRX View Post
According to the lab report that *was* his FF. 2871 on oil, 2871 on unit.

Or, are you saying that the GF-5 5w-30 will be better than the FF he posted the UOA on? Me dense this time of dey...
In terms of the viscosity, I'd say yes.
Check out post #129 and #130 in this thread.
Both are Subaru 5w30, and maintained that viscosity.
Toombs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 08:16 AM   #145
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT
20 OB Onyx XT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toombs View Post
GF-5 Subaru 5w-30 should be 11.28cst @ 100C. Nearly 30% shear rate if you take psupank numbers! It's not fair to compare FF to that oil though.
Where's a voa? I can't find one.

-Dennis
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 09:25 AM   #146
Toombs
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340935
Join Date: Dec 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2001 RS
2013 WRX STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Where's a voa? I can't find one.

-Dennis
MSDS in the thread #88
Toombs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 02:13 PM   #147
psupunk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 315560
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: OKC 'Burbs
Vehicle:
2013 WRX-5dr-Limited
CBS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toombs View Post
How did you prepare your sample?
Like I mean, did you get the car up to operating temp when you reached the dealership when the sample was taken, or was it another short trip?

I suppose even if it was a short trip sample, it would be more accurate to your driving.

GF-5 Subaru 5w-30 should be 11.28cst @ 100C. Nearly 30% shear rate if you take psupank numbers! It's not fair to compare FF to that oil though.
Well, it's a good 30 min drive from work to the dealership, and they took my car right in when i got there. I don't know if they took the sample in the middle of the stream, or right at the beginning or end, though.
psupunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 04:07 PM   #148
oaklandish_WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 267339
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Ostinato Rigore
Vehicle:
2002 0[[XXXXoXXXX]]0
MBP LongRoof

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toombs View Post
In terms of the viscosity, I'd say yes.
Check out post #129 and #130 in this thread.
Both are Subaru 5w30, and maintained that viscosity.
Agreed. US Stealership 5W30 holds up; FF 5W30 does not.

thanks...
oaklandish_WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 06:06 PM   #149
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT
20 OB Onyx XT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toombs View Post
MSDS in the thread #88
Thanks. Didn't realize there was a pdf at the bottom of that thread and it was too annoying trying to read the jpeg's on my phone.

Did you get that from ILA?

Oh noes! I thought the Subaru oil was "synthetic".

The petroleum base oils contained in this product have been highly refined by a variety of processes including solvent extraction, hydrotreating, and dewaxing to remove aromatics and improve performance characteristics.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 08-22-2013 at 06:40 PM.
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 07:41 PM   #150
Toombs
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 340935
Join Date: Dec 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2001 RS
2013 WRX STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Thanks. Didn't realize there was a pdf at the bottom of that thread and it was too annoying trying to read the jpeg's on my phone.

Did you get that from ILA?

Oh noes! I thought the Subaru oil was "synthetic".

The petroleum base oils contained in this product have been highly refined by a variety of processes including solvent extraction, hydrotreating, and dewaxing to remove aromatics and improve performance characteristics.

-Dennis
Yessir, got it from Susie, MSDS Coordinator of ILAC
I asked specifically for Subaru Synthetic Motor Oil SAE 5W-30
She gave me the 55 gallon lube version... maybe she's trying to hint at something...
Toombs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.