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Old 08-14-2015, 10:41 PM   #1676
LittleBlueGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
My experience was 41x whp on a leaking header at about 75 degrees. I fixed the header, then looked at my IAT's and decided to turn the boost down till they were reasonable. This dyno shows stock 08+ STi's at about 205 whp. I figure with a leak free header, better IAT's, and actually hitting target boost I could see 430-440 whp on a normal temp day.

Sounds about right on eastern 93 gas

I am at 800 feet ASL, and our gas us nowhere near as good as some Eastern 93 gas.
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:47 PM   #1677
stihatch
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Default New build with 7163 question

I know little about turbo's, but just bought a 7163 stock location with there high boost actuator. My stock motor blew last month, so I am rebuilding it with a new short block and Cosworth pistons. What goal should I set for HP/Tq for safety & power? I have installed: EL headers, 3" turbo back, Mishimoto Top Mount Intercooler. Driving goals are 80% enthusiastic daily driving, 20% Road Tracking- ie East coast: Watkins Glenn / LimeRock (not racing).
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Old 08-16-2015, 08:23 PM   #1678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stihatch View Post
I know little about turbo's, but just bought a 7163 stock location with there high boost actuator. My stock motor blew last month, so I am rebuilding it with a new short block and Cosworth pistons. What goal should I set for HP/Tq for safety & power? I have installed: EL headers, 3" turbo back, Mishimoto Top Mount Intercooler. Driving goals are 80% enthusiastic daily driving, 20% Road Tracking- ie East coast: Watkins Glenn / LimeRock (not racing).
Sticking with stock rods for the rebuild? If so, anything past 450wtq is pushing it. If you are going with stronger rods, you should be good up to around 500whp. Anything past that, you'll want to think about a closed deck short block or getting the block sleeved.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:29 PM   #1679
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I'd be happy with 400ish. So stock Rods are good for 450tq, good to know.
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:31 AM   #1680
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Since the motor is still open, I am adding H-tuff rods and King bearings. Thanks for the hint..."Sticking with stock rods for the rebuild?"
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:30 AM   #1681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan. S View Post
yamahaSHO I was wondering if you ever got it finished and tuned.

Looking forward to some results with the .85 a/r on the 6758.
I finally turned my attention away from my track car and addressed the leaks I had and did some preliminary tuning tonight. Currently it's at 18 PSI on the supplied EBCS and little timing and so far I am enjoying the turbo. The spool seems just as good as my TD05/20G/8cm was, but seems to have as much power with less boost.

I've never been one after huge power, just a fun and well rounded car. So far, I got that. It's nice to have good boost control without an EWG. It's weird just feeling the car instead of thinking, "****, that's loud"!

I hope to get another chance to dial the car in some more this week, but I have a track day this weekend as well as another guy to get onto E85 before the track day.
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Old 08-30-2015, 01:54 AM   #1682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
I finally turned my attention away from my track car and addressed the leaks I had and did some preliminary tuning tonight. Currently it's at 18 PSI on the supplied EBCS and little timing and so far I am enjoying the turbo. The spool seems just as good as my TD05/20G/8cm was, but seems to have as much power with less boost.

I've never been one after huge power, just a fun and well rounded car. So far, I got that. It's nice to have good boost control without an EWG. It's weird just feeling the car instead of thinking, "****, that's loud"!

I hope to get another chance to dial the car in some more this week, but I have a track day this weekend as well as another guy to get onto E85 before the track day.
Thanks for taking the time to share your findings so far. You sound like a busy guy but in a good way. I have decided on the 6758 for my car too and from what i have been able to dig up the EFR 6758 .64 a/r spools 300-400rpm earlier than the EFR 6758 .85 a/r and loosing only 5 whp right at the very top end. However thats only from 1 source, so thats why I am doing more research and intently looking at your results as they come out.

We share similar thoughts as I am after a well rounded car as it is also my dd and want the power more where I will use it going to and from work everyday instead of too far to the right like 4000-4400 spool up and 7500 - 8000 rpm redlines which is where the 7163 appears to shine with the .85 a/r.

I am aiming at a spool up between 3000-3500rpm and 7000rpm power band.

Thanks again for the info, have fun as your car sounds like a lot of fun to me to drive on the streets, and good luck racing with the track car on the weekends.
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Old 08-30-2015, 02:02 AM   #1683
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I might have spoken too soon as I am starting to think that the .64 might have been better (it's not quite matching the 20G spool I had). The power feels pretty good, however, I'm still working on trying to get the spool up a little quicker and trying to hold boost towards the top end. I ended up connecting a hose from the vent port on the supplied EBCS and putting it on the bottom port of the TurboSmart actuator. It's helping in the midrange and had to bring the WGDC down, but not so much up top. My next map will command more WGDC prior to and a through a good portion of the spool range to see if that will help.



That said, the power seems to pick up fairly well by the seat of the pants.
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Old 08-30-2015, 11:48 AM   #1684
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I now run a S200SX 7670 with the standard 1,22 A/R T3/T4 twinscroll turbine.

What would be the spool difference be between that ^^ and the single scroll 0,85 T3 EFR7163 of this thread?

Better-same-worse? RPM estimate?

Tnx,
Walter
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Old 08-30-2015, 02:07 PM   #1685
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Looks like the 7163's are making pretty good numbers these days.
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Old 09-01-2015, 08:52 AM   #1686
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Full Race and Others...

I have a twinscroll EFR 7163 with a Turbosmart dual port internal wastegate and a MAC 4 port solenoid. Phatron is tuning the car and mentioned that boost curve is very wavy. He told me I should have went EWG. Before I abandon all hope for the unpopular EFR IWG, can someone offer setup or troubleshooting advice?

Solenoid plumbing exactly matches this:

http://i.imgur.com/7tQuwXK.jpg

Example plot:

http://i.imgur.com/h30cTqx.jpg

This was the first pull this morning, typically it spools 300 RPM sooner. Ron is intentionally tapering right now.

My plan is to add vacuum to the exhaust port of the MAC solenoid to assist opening and closing of the IWG. Other suggestions are welcomed.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:29 AM   #1687
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It looks like your PID values are wonky. I had a similar wavy plot and had to increase the P and I values until it smoothed out. I imagine that Ron would know that though.

I have no issues holding rock solid boost at 27 psi on a .64 A/R 6758 using the high boost canister. Not sure why people think the IWG is unreliable, you just have to use the right hardware with it.
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:40 AM   #1688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
It looks like your PID values are wonky. I had a similar wavy plot and had to increase the P and I values until it smoothed out. I imagine that Ron would know that though.

I have no issues holding rock solid boost at 27 psi on a .64 A/R 6758 using the high boost canister. Not sure why people think the IWG is unreliable, you just have to use the right hardware with it.
Thanks, subydude. I figured the turbosmart actuator and the Mac 4 port were the best hardware for utilizing the EFR IWG. I'll mention additional PID tuning to Ron.
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:21 PM   #1689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eqlized_aero View Post
Full Race and Others...

I have a twinscroll EFR 7163 with a Turbosmart dual port internal wastegate and a MAC 4 port solenoid. Phatron is tuning the car and mentioned that boost curve is very wavy. He told me I should have went EWG. Before I abandon all hope for the unpopular EFR IWG, can someone offer setup or troubleshooting advice?

Solenoid plumbing exactly matches this:

http://i.imgur.com/7tQuwXK.jpg

Example plot:

http://i.imgur.com/h30cTqx.jpg

This was the first pull this morning, typically it spools 300 RPM sooner. Ron is intentionally tapering right now.

My plan is to add vacuum to the exhaust port of the MAC solenoid to assist opening and closing of the IWG. Other suggestions are welcomed.

I have the exact same set-up as you, except on a 6758. To be fair, the normal high-pressure IWG that I got with it worked about as good as any other IWG canister I have tuned. I tried all sorts of PI tuning (including some funky stuff that keeps the I at 0 unless I was within a few psi of target).

When i got the 4-port actuator and the two-port IWG it was much better. Much much better. Not only could I hold higher boost, but boost spikes were much more controllable. It was not as good as the best EWG that I have tuned, but it was much better then any IWG I have tuned.
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Old 09-01-2015, 06:01 PM   #1690
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sorry I havent checked in lately. SEMA is only 8 weeks away and things are busy for me. thanks to everyone for the discussion and feedback on our kits, we love seeing our customers acheive great results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volition View Post
Looks like the 7163's are making pretty good numbers these days.
7163 is most popular for 2.5L guys looking to make bigger power levels - but i was recently drivign a friend's 6758 08 WRX (0.64 a/r) and loved every minute of it! dont underestimate that turbo

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
I've never been one after huge power, just a fun and well rounded car. So far, I got that. It's nice to have good boost control without an EWG. It's weird just feeling the car instead of thinking, "****, that's loud"!
awesome - that ^^ is the goal of this setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan. S View Post
I am after a well rounded car as it is also my dd and want the power more where I will use it going to and from work everyday..I am aiming at a spool up between 3000-3500rpm and 7000rpm power band
if youre not power hungry and looking for a fun street car for the daily commute - 6758 stock location is a really good and really simple!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetspeed View Post
I now run a S200SX 7670 with the standard 1,22 A/R T3/T4 twinscroll turbine. What would be the spool difference be between that ^^ and the single scroll 0,85 T3 EFR7163 of this thread?
Talking twinscroll S200 vs twinscroll 7163 - id wager ~1200rpm earlier spool. Comparing the larger twinscroll inconel turbo to singlescroll 7163 is tough to guesstimate, but the delta would be closer

Quote:
Originally Posted by eqlized_aero View Post
I have a twinscroll EFR 7163 with a Turbosmart dual port internal wastegate and a MAC 4 port solenoid. Phatron is tuning the car and mentioned that boost curve is very wavy. He told me I should have went EWG. Before I abandon all hope for the unpopular EFR IWG
twinscroll 7163 is a great turbo (i use it on my personal street car) but IWG is your only option. I personally love it.. some tuners appreciate the internal gate, yet others prefer EWG. Thats why we offer different setups for each configuration!
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Old 09-02-2015, 12:17 PM   #1691
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Thanks for the respons Geoff!
1200 RPM spool difference seems a lot! I would be happy with 400-500 RPM earlier spool and this S200SX 7670 is already pretty good on my 2,2ltr.

Seeing the 7163 even has a little more flow (60lbs over 58 lbs for the S200SX), thats a no brainer
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Old 09-02-2015, 12:51 PM   #1692
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Selling my stock location DP & UP if anyone is interested. Going rotated to accomodate my turbo restrictor (parking lot racing, srs bizns).

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2745209
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Old 09-07-2015, 08:33 PM   #1693
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I just received my kit last week, and have run into a snag already. I started to prep the turbo, starting with installing the fitting for the oil return that threads into the center housing. The fitting itself won't thread even half of the way on. I don't want to use a wrench and risk damaging the center housing. This is how far I can get it on with my hands.





I don't feel safe to try and chase the threads either, being at the opening of the bearing housing.











On a less extreme note, I also have a similar issue with the water return fittings not threading into each other. The threads will catch and get stuck right away as if they are cross threading.



Has anyone who's done this install themselves come across this? I contacted Full Race with my concern earlier last week and have yet to hear back. I was just reaching out to see if anyone has any suggestions as to what my next step should be. I'd like to get my car back up and running again by the time winter rolls around, but that would be difficult if I have to return the turbo for inspection/repair/replacement.
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Old 09-07-2015, 10:02 PM   #1694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKillDMD View Post
I just received my kit last week, and have run into a snag already. I started to prep the turbo, starting with installing the fitting for the oil return that threads into the center housing. The fitting itself won't thread even half of the way on. I don't want to use a wrench and risk damaging the center housing. This is how far I can get it on with my hands.
Those fittings use tapered pipe threads; they are supposed to tighten as you thread them together.
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Old 09-07-2015, 11:07 PM   #1695
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^ This.

If they re NPT threads, they are tapered. 3-4 rotations and they begin to tighten. They should never thread all the way down.
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Old 09-08-2015, 01:14 PM   #1696
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^^ Thanks for the reply. I just read through the EFR Technical Training Guide and found the answer in there as well!

I still feel that the water line fittings are too tight. I can't even get a full rotation of thread engagement before it binds.

The EFR TTG also has torque specs for the water/oil ports, but these are all for previous gen EFRs with steel CHRA. They don't have it updated with the 7163. Would the torque specs be the same for the aluminum CHRA?
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Old 09-08-2015, 02:34 PM   #1697
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No, aluminum threads don't generally have the same torque holding ability that steel threads do. You'll likely pull threads out if you use the same specs. Call full race for support in this area.
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Old 09-08-2015, 02:47 PM   #1698
yamahaSHO
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Use some common sense and make sure...

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Old 09-08-2015, 02:51 PM   #1699
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Default oil drain..

Are you fitting a rotated kit? If so then consider some mods before you install the EFR turbo.

I found that the supplied thread-in npt drain fitting was a significant part of the oil back-up issue into the cartridge, leading to oil burning out through the exhaust side turbine seal...

If you are rotated, then get an alloy external bolt on drain fitting and ditch the supplied npt fitting. I ended up fabbing a 1/2 npt pipe elbow and short pieces of 1/2"npt pipe to make the flow out of the cartridge less restrictive. I ported the inside transitions from the pipe to elbow as well. A nicer solution would be a mandrel bent thin-wall pipe of 5/8" ID threaded into the external oil drain adapter.

This way, the inside diameter of the oil drain is a minimum .63" throughout the flow path until it hits the factory inlet on the back of the engine.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKillDMD View Post
^^ Thanks for the reply. I just read through the EFR Technical Training Guide and found the answer in there as well!

I still feel that the water line fittings are too tight. I can't even get a full rotation of thread engagement before it binds.

The EFR TTG also has torque specs for the water/oil ports, but these are all for previous gen EFRs with steel CHRA. They don't have it updated with the 7163. Would the torque specs be the same for the aluminum CHRA?
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Old 09-08-2015, 02:59 PM   #1700
yamahaSHO
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This thread is for the stock location setup. I almost used one of my bolt-on AN fittings in place of the supplied NPT->AN, but I haven't been puffing any smoke using the supplied part.

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