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Old 09-25-2007, 07:53 PM   #651
StiLimited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjones View Post
Name: Mike
Any advice or suggestions where to go with this?

Hi Mike,

My speedo, and therefore milage counter is off by 5.5% reading high. If yours is the same (3mph at 55mph difference as compared to radar gun and GPS nav system) then that's 5.5%. So if your car reads 60636 miles, your car actually has 57502 miles, not 60K+. This is childs play. If the dealership says no, ask for their determination in writing. Then appeal to SOA. If they say no, write a letter to your AG (state attorney general, CC the letter to SOA and the dealerhip and include anything in writing the dealership and SOA give you to your letter to the AG.). There are laws that govern this sort of thing and they are always in favor of the consumer.

I had a similiar situation with a Ford truck and I was 8K over the limit. I made a similiar argument and they agree to split the bill 50/50 with me. I think if I'd been 4K over I could have got them to do it for free. Also, if you have your receipts for oil changes, you can include that in your argument, especially if you had the dealership do them.
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:15 PM   #652
mjones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StiLimited View Post
Hi Mike,

My speedo, and therefore milage counter is off by 5.5% reading high. If yours is the same (3mph at 55mph difference as compared to radar gun and GPS nav system) then that's 5.5%. So if your car reads 60636 miles, your car actually has 57502 miles, not 60K+. This is childs play.
Ya, My speedo always ran a little high on the stock wheels/tires, SSRs with Dunlops SP9000s, and even with 15" SSRs with Kumho Rally Tires on (worker, not a racer)

However, even tho the speedo read high, the odometer always appeared much closer. i.e. the math on the actual speedo showed 5% error, but the math on comparing distance traveled show less of an error. I never looked into it, but I always theorized that it was actually two different sensing mechanisms one for Speedo and the other for Odo (maybe one wheel rev based and the other tranny based)

Another possible explanation I had was that they used the same input sensor but had different circuits for the calculation of speed and distance which results in a different error factor for each.

Anyone know if the Speedo input to the cluster is separate from the Odo input?
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:17 PM   #653
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Quote:
Anyone know if the Speedo input to the cluster is separate from the Odo input?
I don't know but it would make sense to use a single input.

On vehicles that I've checked in the past, the odometer error (if any) was equal to the speedometer error.

With stock size tires most cars are petty accurate, but if they're off they usually err on the high side (ie. 60 mph indicated is actually 58 mph).

It would be worth having the odometer checked and getting something in writing if it is off in your favor.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:24 PM   #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
It would be worth having the odometer checked and getting something in writing if it is off in your favor.
Agree on that. Get a before and after report from a "certified" shop.

I agree. On every car I have the speedo and milage are right on the money. I usually compare using the mile markers on the freeway. But I can also use the gps nav. and they are perfectly in synch with each other and the radar trailers they leave laying around construction sites. Exept on the Sti. It's 3mph high at 55mph. (reads 58). So that means my fuel milage is a little higher than reality and my miles drives between oil changes a little high too. All okay things with me. Except for the warranty issue.

Btw, I think your best bet if you are denied, would be call the local TV stations. Just find one that will do a little "consumer help" feature on you and your car. Or call one of those call in talk shows on the radio that are so popular. Some newspapers have a legal help line that you can "Send a letter to the editor" asking for legal advice. Just write in asking what the law is concerning this issue... and mention the dealershp by name and that your car has 600 miles over the limit. The dealership will look like the biggest Scrooge since Ebenezer. The bad publicity from just one of these will far outweigh the $5300 (retail) it'd cost them to fix your car.

Last edited by StiLimited; 09-25-2007 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:22 PM   #655
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BTW -- $5,300 for an engine?!!

Maybe I'm hopelessly out of touch <old man voice> "I remember when we could buy a rebuilt Chevy 350 for $500...".

Seriously though, even including labor, isn't that an insane amount of money?
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Old 09-26-2007, 06:42 PM   #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjones View Post
Name: Mike
Make: '04 WRX Wagon
Mileage: 60,636
Update:

Got word from the service rep today; someone, I'm not entirely certain who is offering to cover $1,500 of the bill.

So, the way I see it right now I have a few options.
1) Take the $1500, pay the balance then sue in small claims court for the balance. I suppose probably have to throw together a mini-documentary establishing that the Odo could be high.
2) Retain a Lawyer and go for the throat up front to sue for what? Breach of Contract for not honoring my warrantee?
3) Let someone know I'm going to be a PR nightmare for them with the local media if they don't consider the repair within the parameters of the powertrain warranty.

For 2 & 3, who do I contact for this? the local dealer or someone with SOA?

Thanks again for helping me through this!

Mike
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:04 PM   #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjones View Post
Update:

Got word from the service rep today; someone, I'm not entirely certain who is offering to cover $1,500 of the bill.

So, the way I see it right now I have a few options.
1) Take the $1500, pay the balance then sue in small claims court for the balance. I suppose probably have to throw together a mini-documentary establishing that the Odo could be high.
yes, that's possible. Basically the $1500 is probably some sort of discount they are offering to you, hoping you'll take it and go away. Which they may have a disclaimer or waiver to sue tied to your acceptance.... so you want to be careful with that one.

Quote:

2) Retain a Lawyer and go for the throat up front to sue for what? Breach of Contract for not honoring my warrantee?
Less likely to get a favorable outcome. you have to pay for your lawyer and may not get your fees paid. also, you have to show negligence or some sort of bad faith on their part to get punitive damages. Unlikely to get that.

Quote:

3) Let someone know I'm going to be a PR nightmare for them with the local media if they don't consider the repair within the parameters of the powertrain warranty.

For 2 & 3, who do I contact for this? the local dealer or someone with SOA?

Mike

SOA has a contact form on their website. That's the first thing I"d do.
http://www.subaru.com/tools/contactus/index.jsp

I'd also start calling the news and radio people. I think you could find one to take the story and run with it. It's a perfect "look what we did for one of our viewers/listeners" story. Just call the editorial desk and tell them you are having trouble with a local dealship and see what they say.

Last edited by StiLimited; 09-26-2007 at 07:40 PM. Reason: fix typos
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:45 PM   #658
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Hey, I just thought of something... it's a long shot, but sort of applicable.

A piston with a hole in it is going to put out some dirty exhaust. Certainly you could not pass an emissions test with it like that. And since the emissions warranty goes out to 80K miles by law... perhaps it could be argued that the emissions warranty could cover this repair.

Yes, here you go:

Quote:
EMISSION RELATED PARTS

These are examples of other parts of your vehicle which have a
primary purpose other than emissions control but which nevertheless
have significant effects on your vehicle's emissions. If any of these
parts fail to function or function improperly, your vehicle's
emissions may exceed federal standards. Therefore, when any of the
parts of the following systems are defective in materials or
workmanship and have failed in a way that would be likely to cause
your vehicle's emissions to exceed federal standards, they should be
repaired or replaced under the emissions warranty
from http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt

Last edited by StiLimited; 09-26-2007 at 07:51 PM. Reason: add info
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:51 PM   #659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StiLimited View Post
Hey, I just thought of something... it's a long shot, but sort of applicable.

A piston with a hole in it is going to put out some dirty exhaust. Certainly you could not pass an emissions test with it like that. And since the emissions warranty goes out to 80K miles by law... perhaps it could be argued that the emissions warranty could cover this repair.
lol

oh, and oddly enough I've got another option I'm working on.

My SoA guy I know made arrangements to accept the car under GTP as a trade-in and somehow pretend it doesn't have a dead motor. Unfortunately I can't look up my max GTP on the website by my VIN. I had to call customer service for that...the rep I spoke with can't figure out why he can't get a value and I'm supposed to hear back tomorrow.

So, I also might just wash my hands of the whole thing and roll it into a new scoob. I dunno for sure yet. The pickings at my dealer is horrible for Rexxes. Maybe a Forrester XT, I dunno yet.
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:23 PM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StiLimited View Post
Hey, I just thought of something... it's a long shot, but sort of applicable.

A piston with a hole in it is going to put out some dirty exhaust. Certainly you could not pass an emissions test with it like that. And since the emissions warranty goes out to 80K miles by law... perhaps it could be argued that the emissions warranty could cover this repair.

Yes, here you go:



from http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt
Very clever StiLimited, I like the way your mind works!

Actually, I'm not so sure it's a long shot -- I'd try it.
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Old 09-27-2007, 03:42 PM   #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazard06 View Post
Name: Sean

Make: 06 sti

Mileage: 17k

Time Out Of Use: 1day

Problem And Likely Cause: spark plugs

Modifications: none

Submitted For Warranty Work (Yes/No): yes

Reason Given For Denial: wrong spark plugs in car

Your Story: I bought my 06 sti bout six months ago. It had after market intake and bov, both installed with no tune. I took those parts off and put all new factory parts back on it. A few weeks ago I started having rough idle. So I thought it was the spark plugs fouling because of the after market parts and improper use of them. I searched around for a week trying to figure out what plugs to use. I found the Spark plug FAQ on here http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518633
It was recommended to use " The correct spark plug for you is SOA part number 22401AA630.
Denso Iridium IKH22 is the correct sized one step colder plug as seen on this thread.
NGK LFR7AIX (#2309) is the correct sized one step colder plug as seen on this thread.I could not find LFR7AIX in stock any where in reno nv. So I bought LFR6AIX. CEL comes back on the day after I installed the new plugs. So I took it to the dealer to have it checked out. They told me that the wrong plugs are in the car and that is what is causing the problem. They wanted $400 to fix the car since the plugs were not covered under the warranty (the correct plugs from the dealer are $22 each). And they suggested not to drive my car at all because it will cause further damage to the car. This made me mad, I've done the search to find out what to use. And they wont honor the warranty. I'm not saying that the spark plug FAQ is wrong but. just a warning to all the people using any plug other then stock could have this same problem. I told the guy that I cant afford to pay for it right now and if I take the car home and put the right plugs from the dealer in, will they honor the warranty. He told me yes it would and that I can bring the car back they will look at it again to see what the underlying problem really was. The service adviser then told me that it was going to be $103.00 for them just to look at the car because the incorrect plugs took it out of warranty. I was even more angered I told him that I came in for a check to see why the CEL was on and the car was under the org. warranty so it should not cost me anything. We talked about it he told me he understands and the they will wave that fee this time as a courtesy. And when I bring the car back with the right plugs they will not charge because the car will be back under warranty.

My question is has any other member here had this same problem?
Update. 9/27/07 My car has been back in the dealer since 9/25/07 They redid the scan on it and tried puting a new coil on the car, then a new injector. Still had a problem with cyl 2. The dealer called me back and said that they are at a loss and dont know what to do. They want to keep the car for the night and call Subaru directly to ask what to do. They ran a compression test one 9/26/07 to find all cyl are runnin at 110psi-115psi cyl 2 is running at 20psi. They game me a rental car and told me that they are gonna pull the motor and see whats going on with it. Today 9/27/07 I got a call. They told me that the piston in cyl 2 had melted and have no clue how or why it happend. He also told me that everything is covered under the warranty and that I will be geting a new motor in the car. I will get the car back this comeing tuesday, I hope.

So just to clear things up it was never the plugs.

I have another question, I would like to know if any one has ever had this happen on an all stock car?
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Old 09-27-2007, 03:49 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by biohazard06 View Post
Update. 9/27/07 I have another question, I would like to know if any one has ever had this happen on an all stock car?
Unfortunately, that sounds very similar to my recent post
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:50 PM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazard06 View Post
Update. 9/27/07 My car has been back in the dealer since 9/25/07 They redid the scan on it and tried puting a new coil on the car, then a new injector. Still had a problem with cyl 2. The dealer called me back and said that they are at a loss and dont know what to do. They want to keep the car for the night and call Subaru directly to ask what to do. They ran a compression test one 9/26/07 to find all cyl are runnin at 110psi-115psi cyl 2 is running at 20psi. They game me a rental car and told me that they are gonna pull the motor and see whats going on with it. Today 9/27/07 I got a call. They told me that the piston in cyl 2 had melted and have no clue how or why it happend. He also told me that everything is covered under the warranty and that I will be geting a new motor in the car. I will get the car back this comeing tuesday, I hope.

So just to clear things up it was never the plugs.

I have another question, I would like to know if any one has ever had this happen on an all stock car?
Thanks for coming back and giving us an update -- a lot of people (myself included) forget to do that.

Congrats on the relatively hassle-free new engine. I'm surprised they didn't try to blame it on you.
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Old 09-27-2007, 10:12 PM   #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
Thanks for coming back and giving us an update -- a lot of people (myself included) forget to do that.

Congrats on the relatively hassle-free new engine. I'm surprised they didn't try to blame it on you.
hey man dont jinx it! lol joking yeah I wanted to give every one an update also I wanted to see if anyone else has had the same problem. so far its hassle free. Keep your fingers crossed.
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Old 09-28-2007, 10:24 AM   #665
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"I told him that I came in for a check to see why the CEL was on and the car was under the org. warranty so it should not cost me anything. "

Unfortunately, that is not always true. If the CEL is caused by aftermarket parts or physical damage, then it's not a matter for warranty. If it turns out that the CEL (MIL) has come on due to something other than a stock factory system malfunction, the dealer has every right to charge you for, at the very least, a minimum diagnostic charge.
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Old 10-04-2007, 03:47 PM   #666
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Originally Posted by biohazard06 View Post
Update. 9/27/07 My car has been back in the dealer since 9/25/07 They redid the scan on it and tried puting a new coil on the car, then a new injector. Still had a problem with cyl 2. The dealer called me back and said that they are at a loss and dont know what to do. They want to keep the car for the night and call Subaru directly to ask what to do. They ran a compression test one 9/26/07 to find all cyl are runnin at 110psi-115psi cyl 2 is running at 20psi. They game me a rental car and told me that they are gonna pull the motor and see whats going on with it. Today 9/27/07 I got a call. They told me that the piston in cyl 2 had melted and have no clue how or why it happend. He also told me that everything is covered under the warranty and that I will be geting a new motor in the car. I will get the car back this comeing tuesday, I hope.

So just to clear things up it was never the plugs.

I have another question, I would like to know if any one has ever had this happen on an all stock car?
Update number 2 10/04/07

I was supposed to get the car back from the dealer on the 1st of this month. But the service advisor told me that Subrau sent them the wrong motor and they should get the right one in on the 2nd. Today I got a call from my service advisor telling me my car is DONE!!!! I'm so happy. He told me that they put in a new short block. I was hoping that I would get a complete new motor like a pod from the factory. But its ok i'm really happy with a short block. Number 2 piston melted the rings and they scratched the cyl wall so bad that they just wanted to replace the short block. They also replaced some odds and ends that were messed up from the motor failur. All and all I am really happy with my dealer here in Reno, Nv. It took a lil longer then I wanted but I was treated really well and with alot of respect towards me and my car. Everything was covered under warranty and so far this is the first Subrau has seen anything like this in an 06sti.
I have always wanted an STI and I love it.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:58 PM   #667
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Name:Justin Ryan

Make: 04 STI

Mileage:40,500

Time Out Of Use:n/a

Problem And Likely Cause:Very loud clicking/clunk noise whenever power gets to rear wheels, or when letting off gas and decelerating and power flow changed to engine braking-brought to subaru they diagnosed a bad left rear axle.

Modifications:none

Submitted For Warranty Work (Yes/No):yes

Reason Given For Denial:na-subaru covered under powertrain warrenty after a small fight with them

Your Story:When I brought to subaru, and I told them that I think it is a bad rear axle, they told me those usually arent covered and they dont ususally go bad, and the fact that I am only 20 didnt help, but I told the asm that it was in the owners manual and she after they confirmed it was an axle they told me it would be covered. I was happy with the decision.
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:27 PM   #668
supafastR
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Cool 2003 WRX 5Spd MT

SupafastR

Impreza WRX Wagon

63000

3 Days

Early 2003 WRX's had '02 gears that were too wimpy, I had problems for like 10k until it finally killed 2nd.

Modifications: Completely Stock

Submitted For Warranty Work (Yes/No): Yes

Reason Given For Denial: The Subaru tech. said the District Rep. wanted to deny warranty because my shift fork was broken, but he convinced them not deny because I didn't have any mods. / that I did not abuse

Your Story:
The car is rock solid except for this 5 speed trans issue. I also heard there is a clutch issue too, you can find the TSB in NASIOC if you search for it. Also, the day after selling the car I find out there is a blend (called Uncle Scotty's) of fluids that will help this tranny shift better... go figure.
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Old 10-19-2007, 01:53 PM   #669
sshus924
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Default Warrantee Issues

Name- S. Shuster
Make- 2006 WRX Sti
Mileage- 7,500
Time out of Use- 1 day
Problem and Likely Cause- both end links on rear suspension broke after going over slight bump on highway.
Modes- Cobb exhaust, stage 2
Submitted for Warrantee- Yes
Reason Given for Denial- Said I went over bump and that I caused the failure!
Your Story- The "bump" was really a slight highway expansion joint. The car was filled with luggage, etc. but an STi should not have it's end links break from this. I replaced them with Cobb forged endlinks and have had no further problems.
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Old 10-19-2007, 02:19 PM   #670
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you might contact your states department of transportation and make a claim.
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Old 10-20-2007, 10:34 PM   #671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sshus924 View Post
Name- S. Shuster
Make- 2006 WRX Sti
Mileage- 7,500
Time out of Use- 1 day
Problem and Likely Cause- both end links on rear suspension broke after going over slight bump on highway.
Modes- Cobb exhaust, stage 2
Submitted for Warrantee- Yes
Reason Given for Denial- Said I went over bump and that I caused the failure!
Your Story- The "bump" was really a slight highway expansion joint. The car was filled with luggage, etc. but an STi should not have it's end links break from this. I replaced them with Cobb forged endlinks and have had no further problems.
Sounds alot like what happened to me.
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Old 10-22-2007, 01:37 AM   #672
disappointed
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Default CEL and power loss

Name: Joe Gassman

Make: 2007 Impreza WRX Limited

Mileage: ~3000

Time Out Of Use: several days

Problem And Likely Cause: CEL on too much, and constant loss of power below 4500 RPM

Modifications: none

Submitted For Warranty Work (Yes/No): many, many times

Reason Given For Denial: can not replicate

Your Story: My first 2007 WRX was replaced because CEL was often on. The replacement vehicle has same problem, along with a new much more serious issue. This second vehicle constantly suffers an almost complete loss power below 4500 RPM. I have been told that the CEL problem is basically due to a bug in the ECU code that keeps the TGVs from operating properly. SOA is aware of this issue, and I know of no plans to address it. The power loss problem has kept my service dept baffled for months, resulting in a lemon law repurchase.

Let me know if anyone wants to activiate their CEL with nothing but some light throttle.
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Old 10-22-2007, 02:58 AM   #673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disappointed View Post
Name: Joe Gassman

Make: 2007 Impreza WRX Limited

Mileage: ~3000

Time Out Of Use: several days

Problem And Likely Cause: CEL on too much, and constant loss of power below 4500 RPM

Modifications: none

Submitted For Warranty Work (Yes/No): many, many times

Reason Given For Denial: can not replicate

Your Story: My first 2007 WRX was replaced because CEL was often on. The replacement vehicle has same problem, along with a new much more serious issue. This second vehicle constantly suffers an almost complete loss power below 4500 RPM. I have been told that the CEL problem is basically due to a bug in the ECU code that keeps the TGVs from operating properly. SOA is aware of this issue, and I know of no plans to address it. The power loss problem has kept my service dept baffled for months, resulting in a lemon law repurchase.

Let me know if anyone wants to activiate their CEL with nothing but some light throttle.
TGVs are the stupidest thing Subaru ever invented. I had the same problem on my 03. Stupid amount of hassle for a part no other company seems to find necessary.
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Old 10-22-2007, 10:35 AM   #674
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2014 Malibu LTZ
silver

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+1. You can blame foolish liberal emission laws for that. Fight the power, do your part and dont run cats.
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Old 10-22-2007, 01:11 PM   #675
TFBHTMFSNE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fubarud View Post
+1. You can blame foolish liberal emission laws for that. Fight the power, do your part and dont run cats.
Yeah, I'd like to go back to the days when the smog was so bad, your eyes would sting and water, and you'd cough and choke just from going outside.

What's really fun is walking home after some savvy cop notices you don't have cats, and your car is being towed to impound for illegal equipment.
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