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Old 06-08-2002, 02:11 PM   #1
ScoobieSnaX
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Default Fuel values for LINK too high?

Greetings,

Wondering if a fuel value of 120 or higher is getting to be too much? Every map I've downloaded or received from other people have fuel values as high as ~112 or so.....with 18 psi.

I ran the car at the track last night and nearly blew it up yikes!! Detonation was rearing its ugly head BIG TIME!

So I've been looking at the stock map and it appears to be quite rich in fuel and modest with timing. I have some fuel values has high as 120-122 and the car is still detonating.

Any help would be most appreciated!! PM me for log files....
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Old 06-08-2002, 02:24 PM   #2
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Don't look too much at what the map says...the interesting bit is what the lambda tells you...aim for an AFR ~12:1 or a wee bit richer from row 6 and up, get fuelling to come on with boost, this is done with the fuel map, not the accel zones.

THIS IS IMPORTANT - the lambda will read lean when hot, do short bursts, 3rd or 4th gear from 2k and up, log the run and let it cool off....of course on a rolling road or a private bit of road.

First sort fuelling and advance, then start to work on boost.

/J
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Old 06-08-2002, 02:32 PM   #3
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i ran 11:6 if you would like a copy of my map i can send it to you.
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Old 06-08-2002, 02:38 PM   #4
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Oh ya!!! Thanks!!!
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Old 06-08-2002, 02:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by SecretAgentMan
Don't look too much at what the map says...the interesting bit is what the lambda tells you...aim for an AFR ~12:1 or a wee bit richer from row 6 and up, get fuelling to come on with boost, this is done with the fuel map, not the accel zones.

THIS IS IMPORTANT - the lambda will read lean when hot, do short bursts, 3rd or 4th gear from 2k and up, log the run and let it cool off....of course on a rolling road or a private bit of road.

First sort fuelling and advance, then start to work on boost.

/J
Thanks. I'm thinking this should all be *easy* with my newly installed wide-band o2 sensor and datalogging kit. I'm just a n00bie when it comes to tuning

I was just checking out the timing for cell 760 and 765 (which resulted in massive detonation). The map I have is set to 12 and 17 respectively. The stock map is 12 & 12....much less agressive.

I have my fuel at 119 & 119 for 760 & 765 which may not be enough...
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Old 06-08-2002, 02:59 PM   #6
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Row 7 is a difficult bugger....the link is famous for transitional det, and most of the time it's due to running the advance a bit hot around 750-760 (if running >220 kpa, and at gear change from >6500 rpm - as in a full blat...), IIRC I'm around 14-15 "map-degrees" there, and I get the occational noise there (peaks around 50-ish, so not a real det), most of the times this happens on track.

It's simple really - log log log and then log again - small steps.

/J
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Old 06-08-2002, 03:00 PM   #7
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What's your master fuel btw...?

/J
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Old 06-08-2002, 03:22 PM   #8
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Master fuel is 88. Funny thing though......last night it would randomly change if I stored the values.....the master fuel would change to 87. If I changed it to 89 and did a STORE, it would complete, then change to 88.

So I found an older copy of the LINK tuning software and installed it today (we'll see if its still messed up). The software would randomly change fuel values too!!! It changed one at 7000RPM from 119 to 2!!!! YIKES!!!

Anyway, if you want the older software its HERE!

If you could send the map I'll try it today!!

p.s. What altitude are you at??
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Old 06-09-2002, 12:16 PM   #9
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bumpity bump....

SecretAgentMan....can you send me your map?

What do you mean by "map-degrees"?

thanks,

ScoobieSnaX
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Old 06-09-2002, 02:00 PM   #10
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Dont forget that some have sti injectors some have stock. That value of actual fuel is dependent on the sti injectors.

So if you have sti's and I have stock...to get more fuel I would have to run a higher number then you would.

its all about your setup and what your doing. Look at your fuel flow %.
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Old 06-09-2002, 05:21 PM   #11
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True....true....I do have STi Injectors and a VF30 feeding them.

The stock map has the master fuel set to 92 which is WAY to rich for me...so I've lowered it to 88 which seems to work quite well.

I wonder how I might be able to lean out the fuel mixture at idle when the car is either hot or cold without touching the master fuel........any ideas?
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Old 06-10-2002, 11:01 AM   #12
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Please please stop fiddling without logging...ffs...sort a laptop and a serial link, and get out there.

On boost, aim for 12:1, or richer if needed to cool EGT's, or calm detting....get fuelling up with boost, so it doesn't run lean when spooling.

Master fuel should be set, then left alone, work on the map instead, use row fuel to get in the ballpark, hell even closed loop tuning with sensible targets is better than just altering zones "by ear".

DO SHORT RUNS - THE LAMBDA READS LEAN WHEN HOT.

USE 3rd or 4th GEAR.

ALL CARS DIFFER GREATLY.

Have I missed something?


/J - I hear your US engines cry out even here in Sweden.

P.S "Map-degrees" advance in the link map...remember that the link is rumoured to run a +10 degrees static - does anyone know for sure?
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Old 06-10-2002, 11:15 AM   #13
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Well thanks for the worldly advice. I have many data logs from yesterday's tuning session. Managed to get the knock almost all figured out. The boost is somewhat stable but not 100% yet.

How could anyone read the Lamda values anyway? The damn thing jumps around like a crack whore on meth and has crappy accuracy.

I've been datalogging with the wideband o2 recently which prove to been VERY valuable. The readings from the wideband are so much more accurate than the factory o2 sensor.

What is everyone else using for master fuel and what altitude?

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Old 06-10-2002, 11:24 AM   #14
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I belive you are right, +10 static.

Ken
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Old 06-10-2002, 11:35 AM   #15
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Yup....at least that is what the manual says...
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Old 06-10-2002, 11:41 AM   #16
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My master fuel is 88 and I live at 6,000 ft. I have STi injectors.
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Old 06-10-2002, 02:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScoobieSnaX

How could anyone read the Lamda values anyway? The damn thing jumps around like a crack whore on meth and has crappy accuracy.

I've been datalogging with the wideband o2 recently which prove to been VERY valuable. The readings from the wideband are so much more accurate than the factory o2 sensor.

What is everyone else using for master fuel and what altitude?

Amen, brotha. The lambda values I'm getting from the Link are all over the place, and useless to me. Where'd you get the wideband o2 sensor, and what are you using to log the info from it?

I'm using 84 for master fuel at sea level (I have the STI injectors and an upgraded pump), and it seems no amount of fuel is enough to keep her from knocking, even with the additional timing advance down into single-digits at high boost. Frankly, it's pissing me off, almost as much as the worthless OXY readings, the boost values going back to the same values every time I load from the Link (even after memory dumps that show the values I put in are in there), the random value changing, and the way the current zone holds the timing advance value when you switch to fuel map, leaving nice low values if you don't catch it. It's not making me happy.
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Old 06-10-2002, 02:28 PM   #18
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Well I'm more than happy to help ya out....just send me your map and a datalog.

The thing I noticed with the Link ECU so far is that zone 760 appears to be suceptible to horrid knock for no apparent reason. What are your fuel values at in zone 750/55/60?

How much boost are you running? Do you have an upgraded turbo, if so, which one?

I've been using the stock map (slightly modified) for the past few days now and its working great for me. I'm trying to get a baseline to start with where I have controlled knock and decent air/fuel ratios.

I bought my wideband o2 from the friendly people at Jackson Autosport in Canada (http://www.jacsport.com). The manufacturer is FJO (http://www.fjoinc.com). It set me back $900US with the datalogging kit so I use my Palm IIIc to datalog values from the wideband o2 and use my laptop to datalog and tune the car!!

Without it (or a dyno) you're HOOOOOPED! I really wish I knew this before I got into it. I really liked my TurboXS stage4 kit (except for the high RPM knock from low octane gas).

What version of the PCLink tuning software are you using? I noticed my version of the software doing the same thing!! Pissed me off....

I have both versions (prior to may 22 and current). If you want to try loading the old one.....it seems to be working a bit better now.

L8r,

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Old 06-10-2002, 03:03 PM   #19
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$900 I was hoping to stop (or even slow down) the bleeding! Then again, I suppose it'll get really expensive when I start replacing failed engine internals from all the damage caused by guessing without some way of (even remotely) accurately measuring fuel ratios.

I'll send you the stuff you requested tonight, and I really appreciate your help. In the meantime, I guess I'll have to cough up the $900, because I agree that I am "HOOOOOPED" without something better.
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