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Old 01-17-2005, 02:47 PM   #476
Alan
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Angry

What may be needed is to get some lawyers involved. Once Subaru has been sued (for health or fire danger) they might decide it's cheaper to fix the problem.

Or else some PUBLICITY might be a good idea. Contacting news departments and getting this situation out there might also put pressure on SOA to pay for the needed repairs.
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Old 01-17-2005, 02:57 PM   #477
cygnusz
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Please report the fuel smell to NHTSA. I filed a formal complaint and also wrote a letter to SOA, [email protected]
"

Dear Mr. Mergen,

My family and I are avid Subaru enthusiasts. I am on my third Subaru since 1992. My current line up includes a 2001 Legacy Wagon and a 2002 WRX. The WRX is becoming increasingly difficult to drive in cold weather. The smell of fuel has recently become intolerable during ambient temperatures of about 30F or below. I am forced to use RECIRCULATE on the ventilation system. I have tracked the leak down to a two-inch rubber hose section under the intake manifold on the passenger’s side. It appears that the clamps are loose and cannot be tightened without removal of the manifold. I have seen that a Technical Service Bulletin has been issued on this matter. I called my dealer to have this safety and health issue repaired. To my dismay, I discovered that it is NOT covered under a recall or warranty. My car currently has 58,550 miles on it and has been impeccably maintained. The dealer has verba lly quoted $400-$500 for the repair. Upon searching the Internet and the NHTSA, I see that fuel vapor odor in the cabin in certain 2002 WRX's is a well-documented defect. I hope for my sake, Subaru's sake, and the sake of others with this problem, that Subaru of America, Inc. will show itself as a standup organization that will make good to it's loyal customers. As an 11 year Mechanical Engineer in the design and manufacturing industry, and an automobile enthusiast, I can explain that this leak is due to three conditions. 1) Improperly torqued hoseclamps during factory assembly, 2) Fuel line material shrinkage/stiffening due to cold temperatures, leading to further loosening of clamps, and 3) Misalignment of fuel lines. Subaru should repair this fuel leak at their cost; avoiding health and safety issues, and loss of future customers. This is NOT a condition caused by the operator of the vehicle by any means and should NOT be placed on the operators shoulders. Over time this leak will become more severe and may possibly ignite under certain conditions or cause dizzyness in the more severe cases.

DOCUMENTED CASES:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/arch.../t-128232.html

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/arch.../t-131755.html

NHTSA Action Number : PE04002



Thanks for your time,

David Cerutti, BSME"



FILE COMPLAINTS HERE:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:42 PM   #478
GOT_WRX
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My stock 02 wrx is doing this again, for the second time in this year. I am dropping my car off at the dealer tomorrow. Thank god I didn't cancel the 5 year / 60k b-t-b extended warranty.

I also filed a complaint with NHTSA.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:51 PM   #479
phantomsr
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Well, picked up car from the dealer today. It's too warm though to know if the issue is resolved. I'm quite impressed with my dealership though. Courtesy shuttle to and from work, car was cleaned, turbo inlet hose installed and old one returned, and they even reset the presets in my radio. Only thing changed was the trip meter, and I'm quite glad they didn't put on the 2000k before I picked it up. If it is still leaking I will post back. They did do the hose and pipe replacement though and not just tighten the clamps.
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Old 01-17-2005, 09:46 PM   #480
empfader
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Itís about 15 degrees F and the smell started yesterday on my 2001 Legacy. There was a Fuel Hose recall on 1500 2001 Legacy's, my car not included. I'm going to the dealer this week to "politely" ask that it be repaired at SOA's expense.

Fuel Hose

Service Program Bulletin WXZ-83
Subject: Fuel Hose

Bulletin Description: Subaru of America, Inc. (SOA) has determined that some affected vehicles may have been produced with up to three improperly manufactured fuel hoses. The affected fuel hoses are located in the vehicle's engine compartment. They are constructed of multiple layers of a rubber like material that may have separated when installed on the vehicle. Over time and in cold temperatures, the hoses could leak fuel, creating the potential for a fire to develop in the vehicle's engine compartment.

This program will involve the inspection and possible replacement of three fuel hoses.

Information contained in any technical document found on the STIS web site should only be used as reference material for highly trained automotive technicians. Only automotive technicians have the training and the special tools/equipment to repair Subaru vehicles.
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Old 01-17-2005, 09:50 PM   #481
djerickd
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Do you guys think this could be an issue that could cause leaning out the cylinders on the passenger side?
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Old 01-17-2005, 10:21 PM   #482
BilboWRX
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Just started experiencing the raw fuel smell and it is exactly as described -and very powerful (around 20 deg F.). I've got an 02 WRX, which I purchased new and it now has 47K miles. I initially thought this would be covered by the 5yr/50K powertrain warranty, but now I'm a little apprehensive about being presented with a major bill at the dealership. Anyone else having luck lately who is over the 3yr/36K?

I tightened to of the fuel line clamps tonight and will see if that makes an improvement. Otherwise I will bite the bullet and phone the dealer. This certainly isn't something I could live with for an extended period of time.

Anyone have any experience with Morristown Subaru in NJ? That is the closest dealer to me presently.

Also, I tried posting to the NHTSA site but was not successful. I'll phone in my complaint tomorrow.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:01 PM   #483
djerickd
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How did you tighten them, I can only seem to reach one
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Old 01-18-2005, 12:02 AM   #484
s_nold
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I too filed a complaint with NHTSA.
I get the problem every time it is below freezing. It is really aggrivating that there is not a recall on this.
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Old 01-18-2005, 12:28 AM   #485
dust12
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I just filed a complaint as well. I had the TSB repaired under warranty. I paid to have the other rubber fuel lines replaced (not in the TSB) at the same time though so I had to pay an extra $170.
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Old 01-18-2005, 01:03 AM   #486
JasonCSU
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I just noticed the smell this winter as well. I'll be filing my complaint with NHTSA.
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Old 01-18-2005, 07:31 AM   #487
BilboWRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djerickd
How did you tighten them, I can only seem to reach one

I looked at the photos that were attached early on in this post. The one clamp was a bit buried and you had to use something to spin the clamp around so that you could get a long phillips screw driver down there and tighten it. The other clamp had a red phillips screw and was relatively easy to reach. I'm just on my way out to work, so I'll see if this has made any difference
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Old 01-18-2005, 11:14 AM   #488
wrbluebaru
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8 degrees here today and my car smelled like a gas can, enough to make *me* feel nauseous. NHTSA just got another complaint, hopefully the "this is unsafe for my small child as it will cause irreparable brain damage" and "I can't stand out in -20 windchill with her while the smell dissipates" will get them off their asses. The fact that Subaru fixed this in later models just reeks (pun intended) of a fixed defect that they are unwilling to admit.

I'll be calling my dealer and SOA to see if they'll cover it...
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Old 01-18-2005, 02:08 PM   #489
maxiter
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Bleah. Had this problem last year. Now that it was 10 degrees this AM, it's back. And by back, I mean worse than ever. Returning from lunch, I had so much fuel vapor coming off the car that I had white billowy smoke coming out of the scoop -- the kind that will explosively ignite if it chances across spark.

It's supposed to visit the dealer tomorrow AM. I doubt it'll get a fix under warranty, so I'll have to call all over the damn place to plea and threaten. No more Subies for me, this is BS.
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Old 01-18-2005, 02:19 PM   #490
GOT_WRX
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Dropped off the car this morning. They said fuel lines (rubber and metal) have to be replaced, but said it wouldn't be covered under warranty -- was quoted $350. I told them I have 5 year extended warranty and that the sales manager (at that time) said it would be covered bumper to bumper. The service guy told me that the sales manager was wrong and there's no such thing as bumper to bumper extended warranty.

I repeated my self over and over again , and he said he'd call back after consulting with his manager. He called back, and said it will be covered under the warranty this time, but with a deductable (which I expected).

Takes a couple days because they have to order the parts and work on it. I will let you guys know if my car gets fixed by this TSB. I am still dizzy from all that inhaling from this morning.
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Old 01-18-2005, 04:36 PM   #491
cygnusz
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Keep reporting this to NHTSA. This serious issue needs to be formally documented. God forbid we ever need a lawsuit here for loss of life or property due to negligence...at least we have records showing the extent and severity of this problem. Just posting on the forums is not enough. Forums are regularly discarded as irrelevent sources of recorded evidence. Take five minutes and file with NHTSA. Save a life, save a car, save your money. Mine is leaking pretty badly and I am questioning weather I should continue to use the car or park it until Subaru fixes it. My garage is beginning to smell ALOT like raw fuel. This is bad news.

Last edited by cygnusz; 01-18-2005 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 01-18-2005, 08:15 PM   #492
carbonfiberscooby
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I also have noticed the problem and I will be filing with NHTSA. if anyone could send me the pictures of where the hoses are it would be greatly appreciated. I am fairly mechanicialy inclined but I cant seem to find the leaks and the links wont open up for me. Thank you
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:53 PM   #493
Sonic Yellow 2K3 WRX
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I'm having the same problem. Car is in my driveway. Looks like I'm going to miss work tomorrow and have the car towed to the dealer.

Any advice is welcome
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Old 01-18-2005, 11:14 PM   #494
danford
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My '02 WRX is also having the same problem, and the smell is overpowering. I'll be filing a complaint and taking it in as well.
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:31 AM   #495
mklier1218
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I had the white smoke from under the hood yesterday also. I tightened the two lines I could get to. I had the wife start the car and did not see the leak anymore. It was warmer in the afternoon though. I will check again this morning for the leak. I called SOA and complained. I let them know I filed a complaint with the NHTSA. Closest dealership is over a hour away. Not going to pay that tow bill.
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Old 01-19-2005, 08:46 AM   #496
maxiter
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Are there any good photos of the lines that people are tightening? I'd like to give this a shot as it's expected to be down towards single digits for the next few days yet.

I was at my dealer this morning to have them look at it and they were going to charge me $90 for the diagnosis, even to tell me if it was warranty or not. Fuel delivery is not part of the drivetrain, and since I'm beyond three years, I'm SOL.

I've already filed with NHTSA last year (they spoke with me about it), so now I'm so very tempted to take this up with SOA in small claims. Fix your fire and safety hazzard, you bastards!
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:37 AM   #497
mklier1218
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I can take pics with my digital camera and email them to you if you want. There was no leak this mmorning so I guess its fixed for now till it leaks again. If it leaks again I will get the intake manifold gasket and fix it myself.
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:46 AM   #498
ezatnova
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I would like pics as well please. My problem started two days ago in the really cold weather. When I'm in my garage and leave for the morning, I don't have this problem. It never gets below 45 in there.
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Old 01-19-2005, 01:22 PM   #499
SoLo OnE
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Mine is doing it more than EVER!! Not to mention she runs rich as hell with my Stage 4 setup. I've noticed it ever since I went to my stage 4 set up. Before that it was barely noticeable.

I like the smell, kinda like its a real racecar. Plus its gets me "wacky" before work.

At least its better than the exhaust fumes that come into the cabin in my Nissan.
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Old 01-19-2005, 03:45 PM   #500
ejh25
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At first I thought I could deal with it but the smell is too strong. I will be making a complaint as well.
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