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Old 03-17-2014, 02:38 PM   #5126
subypete
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At 1 qt per 2000 miles (normal per Subaru) , that will be about 3 qt of 5w40 by 6000 miles before the 7500 OCI, almost 5qt anyway assuming consumption rate is the same
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Last edited by subypete; 03-17-2014 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:22 PM   #5127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
Isn't that pretty much what he said?
Warranty for starters. Yes the manual states you can "top off" if needed, but running 2, 3, or 5 OCIs of a weight not recommended would definitely be grounds to void a warranty. If you're dead set on 5w30 or 5w40, why not at LEAST use a synthetic instead of conventional?
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:33 AM   #5128
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I wonder where did Subaru pull that one from. Who makes a conventional 5W-40? Maybe they have it in Japan but I haven't seen any over here. They also don't mention 5W-20, which is what I use, but 5W-30 is the highest I would go to top off or fill the crankcase with.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:32 AM   #5129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteg View Post
Warranty for starters. Yes the manual states you can "top off" if needed, but running 2, 3, or 5 OCIs of a weight not recommended would definitely be grounds to void a warranty. If you're dead set on 5w30 or 5w40, why not at LEAST use a synthetic instead of conventional?
I may be naive, but wouldn't using an oil that burns less in his engine be better than using the same 0w-20 oil and burning thru 5 qts over an OCI? If his engine is that ****ed anyways, how would they know what weight he's running?
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:23 AM   #5130
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Originally Posted by jr0bb5 View Post
I'm not getting my hopes up, but I've started topping off with conventional 5W-30 and have seen a reduction in consumption recently. I have always topped off with 0w20 and my consumption rate has been fairly consistent at about a quart per 2k miles since my short block replacement. Since topping off with a full quart of 5w30, my consumption rate has been cut by more than half in the last 2k miles. This could just be a fluke and I'm not going to get excited, but I plan on continuing this little experiment and may even try a 5w40 next time.

For those of you who don't know, not only does the manual state that it's acceptable to top off with 5w30/40 conventional oil, but this was also recommend to me by a Subaru tech during my last oil change as a possible way to see a reduction in oil consumption.
Did you see a drop in fuel mileage with the heavier oil?
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:00 AM   #5131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoeddy View Post
Did you see a drop in fuel mileage with the heavier oil?
I ran an oci of 5w30 Castrol synthetic in my oil burning 2012. MPG's did go down. By about 1-2 mpg but noticeable if you are used to monitoring such things.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:10 AM   #5132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
I may be naive, but wouldn't using an oil that burns less in his engine be better than using the same 0w-20 oil and burning thru 5 qts over an OCI? If his engine is that ****ed anyways, how would they know what weight he's running?
When you have an obviously defective engine, heavier oil isn't gonna hurt jack squat.
If you dig around on international subaru forums, some australian dealers have been using heavier oils and no warranties are voided. Someone on XV forum has said over there that their ocis are giing to 6k officially and that using the heavier oils is factory ok'ed. The aussies are much more observant and much more vocal about defects than americans and many are demanding some sort of resolution. Good folks, those Aussies.
I'll link any info I can dig up later. Its all out there via google.
The forester forum and outback owners are also leaving oil burning comme.ts all over the web.
Its definitely a much much bigger problem than just "a few unique individuals". And they definitely arent all nasioc members. Remember one users comment that "surely they would register with nasioc and complain if they had an oil burner".
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:13 AM   #5133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoeddy View Post

Did you see a drop in fuel mileage with the heavier oil?
I only just started topping off with the 5w30 but I'm not really expecting much of a drop in fuel economy, if any at all. Remember, I'm not running my engine full of 5w-30, just replenishing the oil that's being consumed in between my 5000 mile OCIs.

Actually, my fuel economy has been getting better over the past few weeks but that's most likely a result of slightly warmer temperatures.

Last edited by jr0bb5; 03-18-2014 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:50 AM   #5134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
I may be naive, but wouldn't using an oil that burns less in his engine be better than using the same 0w-20 oil and burning thru 5 qts over an OCI? If his engine is that ****ed anyways, how would they know what weight he's running?
If it's truly burning the oil (getting past rings into combustion chamber) then using a thicker oil is potentially harmful to the engine long term. Yes, it will burn less, but if the tolerances and oil passages are small enough and designed for a very thin oil like 0w20, then you could be doing long term damage. Just ask ford when the 4.6 V8 first came into production and they were using 5w30....after enough problems they finally changed it to 5w20 and had none of the same issues.

As to how they would know you're using a thicker oil? A simple oil analysis would show that plain as day! I'd bet money with an engine failure warranty claim they would do one before approving a new engine!
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:54 AM   #5135
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So just dont take it to them full of 5w30. Any residual 5w30 would be from "top offs when 0w20 wasnt available".
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:21 PM   #5136
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Quote:
If it's truly burning the oil (getting past rings into combustion chamber) then using a thicker oil is potentially harmful to the engine long term. Yes, it will burn less, but if the tolerances and oil passages are small enough and designed for a very thin oil like 0w20, then you could be doing long term damage. Just ask ford when the 4.6 V8 first came into production and they were using 5w30....after enough problems they finally changed it to 5w20 and had none of the same issues.
Agreed. The biggest difference in the oils is during a cold start, where most of the damage occurs. Most of that 5w40 is going to flow out of the relief valve, back to the sump instead of through the bearings, where it's needed.

Consumption of 0w20 is a nuisance, but it won't hurt your engine. Switching to 5w40 may reduce consumption, and with it your engine's lifespan.

You're going after the most visible issue (consumption) at the expense the important one (wear).
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:25 PM   #5137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLL_OBP View Post
I wonder where did Subaru pull that one from. Who makes a conventional 5W-40? Maybe they have it in Japan but I haven't seen any over here. They also don't mention 5W-20, which is what I use, but 5W-30 is the highest I would go to top off or fill the crankcase with.
I've been saying the same thing since SoA (they're the ones that write the manual recommendations) came up with this language for the MY2011 Impreza's. Clearly SoA doesn't use a lubrication expert to write the manual recommendations. And why did they omit 5W-20?

jr0bb5 - Before using 5W-30, I would try an entire fill of 5W-20. 5W-20's sometimes have less volatility (oil loss through evaporation) than a 0W-20 of the same brand. Check Amsoil as an example since all manufactures do not post their volatility results. All Amsoil 5W-20's have less volatility than the 0W-20's. IIRC, Amsoil 5W-20's have less volatility than the 5W-30's.

Definitely don't go with a 5W-40 unless you know that your mixture will provide you with adequate cold cranking properties (a small amount of 0W-40 might be fine). I would use a High Mileage 5W-20 over adding any 5W-40.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 03-18-2014 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:37 PM   #5138
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Quote:
And why did they omit 5W-20?
Probably because 0w20 makes it obsolete. Why should anyone care about small differences in volatility unless they're dead set against topping off the oil (as many in this thread are)?
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:09 PM   #5139
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Those of you with high consumption who are worried about your catalysts and not opposed to running 5w30, might be interested in this:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ula_5W-30.aspx

The low phosphorus content is supposed to be less harmful to the converters.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:38 PM   #5140
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Thankfully, I am one of the few who have not experienced any oil consumption issues so far in my 40k miles. It also appears as though subaru's "fix" isn't solving most people's problem they're experiencing. I came across this today, and was very impressed. Granted, the price tag is much higher per vehicle, and there's less of them on the road, but THIS is the kind of exceptional "above and beyond" customer service that keeps customers brand loyal!


http://blog.caranddriver.com/porsche...l-be-replaced/
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:21 PM   #5141
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Apologies if this has been posted before
I came across a tear down of FB20 engine to replace rings -
http://www.reddit.com/r/subaru/comme...the_fb20_tear/

Following the thread is a little challenging, Subaru seems to spec oil consumption to 10.7 oz per 1200 miles, reference Subaru TSB for ring replacement

Someone posted Goggle Docs Subaru
FB25 ring TSB

Last edited by suiram; 03-18-2014 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:34 PM   #5142
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Originally Posted by jsteg View Post
Thankfully, I am one of the few who have not experienced any oil consumption issues so far in my 40k miles. It also appears as though subaru's "fix" isn't solving most people's problem they're experiencing. I came across this today, and was very impressed. Granted, the price tag is much higher per vehicle, and there's less of them on the road, but THIS is the kind of exceptional "above and beyond" customer service that keeps customers brand loyal!


http://blog.caranddriver.com/porsche...l-be-replaced/
the difference is a 20k dollar car where the negative is using more oil as opposed to a 150k dollar car where the negative is engine fire and people dying so not really apples to apples
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:34 PM   #5143
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Another oil light issue.

The oil light on my wife's '12 Impreza has been coming on quite a bit over the last year. I top it off w/the recommended weight, and it disappears. She drives it to the dealer ... no issues found. The car is never abused, and she keeps her miles low. She was finally able to bring it in with the light still on. And, since there's absolutely no sign of leakage ... we are working with them to run a consumption test.

We shall see what they find...

rob
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:34 PM   #5144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suiram View Post
Apologies if this has been posted before
I came across a tear down of FB20 engine to replace rings -
http://www.reddit.com/r/subaru/comme...the_fb20_tear/

Following the thread is a little challenging, Subaru seems to spec oil consumption to 10.7 oz per 1200 miles, reference Subaru TSB for ring replacement
I've been looking for something like this! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:05 PM   #5145
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Originally Posted by auskip07 View Post
the difference is a 20k dollar car where the negative is using more oil as opposed to a 150k dollar car where the negative is engine fire and people dying so not really apples to apples
I believe I mentioned the price difference in the two cars. And yes, you're right, one is more of an inconvenience and one is safety related, however the basic principal of the matter is the same! One company has come up with a "fix" that is not fixing the problem for MANY of the people who have had it done. The other company is going above and beyond what is required of them under a recall or warranty. They could very easily do tear downs on all of those engines and rebuild them to specs with the new hardware. Instead, they decided to give their customers brand new engines! The point I was making is Subaru is doing the bare minimum and Porsche is doing way more than what a normal person would consider fair. Price point is irrelevant to my point!
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:37 PM   #5146
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The point I was making is Subaru is doing the bare minimum and Porsche is doing way more than what a normal person would consider fair. Price point is irrelevant to my point!
Porsche sets its consumption threshold at 1qt per 600 miles. I'm guessing a lot of you would not be happy with this.

Subaru blames the rings, but from this thread, it looks like the short block replacements have done harm more often than good. How can they be sure the heads aren't at fault?
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:39 PM   #5147
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Originally Posted by jsteg View Post
Price point is irrelevant to my point!
Sorry, but I can't agree with this. Part of what you're buying when you fork over $150k for a car is a level of customer service that can't be matched when buying a $21k car (although I must say that I've been very happy with my Subaru dealership).

Case in point: Volkswagen (which also owns Porsche) does not provide excellent customer satisfaction at its dealerships. VW dealerships have a reputation of generating customer frustration.

So you see, even though the same parent company owns both VW and Porsche, the way they treat their customers is completely different.

I would guess that Audi treats its customers better than VW, but worse than Porsche, since they are priced in the middle. Price is very relevant!

Last edited by sgoldste01; 03-18-2014 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:43 PM   #5148
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Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
Those of you with high consumption who are worried about your catalysts and not opposed to running 5w30, might be interested in this:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ula_5W-30.aspx

The low phosphorus content is supposed to be less harmful to the converters.
With a high kinematic viscosity at 100C and a high HTHS, using this oil would be more like running a light 40 grade. Besides, any GF-5 oil will have low enough phosphorus to be fine for catalytic convertors. The ESP actually has higher amounts of both zinc and phosphorus than Mobil1 0W-20.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

-Dennis
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:47 PM   #5149
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The ESP actually has higher amounts of both zinc and phosphorus than Mobil1 0W-20.
Good info. All the more reason to run 0w20.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:47 PM   #5150
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