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Old 12-29-2018, 06:49 PM   #76
simpleJ
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Little birdie told me this block runs more oil pressure and that prime has these cranked up to like 450 without issue-yet
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:55 PM   #77
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half the presses! A little birdie has groundbreaking info!

No, the oil pump is identical in the RA block. The oil pressure would not be any different. 450 (horsepower, I'm assuming... at the crank) on a stock-block motor has been within the realm of the EJ257 for years.
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:22 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
half the presses! A little birdie has groundbreaking info!

No, the oil pump is identical in the RA block. The oil pressure would not be any different. 450 (horsepower, I'm assuming... at the crank) on a stock-block motor has been within the realm of the EJ257 for years.
Was told wheel, but they’re expecting to get 500+ out of it reliably, apparently.

Was also told it was not the pump but the oiling on the block IIRC, not like this person was trying to sell me anything either. But Blah blah blah game of telephone blah blah
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Old 01-03-2019, 03:31 PM   #79
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delete

Last edited by ElroyDanabe; 01-03-2019 at 03:39 PM. Reason: delete
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:08 PM   #80
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Ok cool, I know you know all about the TP's Just was asking for reference.

Thank man,

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Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
I didn't measure them, but my friend did. We didn't put on our torque plates.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:10 PM   #81
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Could you elaborate? Someone at Prime told you about some changes to the oiling system of the RA block cases over the phone your saying?

Ian Hayes,

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleJ View Post
Little birdie told me this block runs more oil pressure and that prime has these cranked up to like 450 without issue-yet
Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleJ View Post
Was told wheel, but they’re expecting to get 500+ out of it reliably, apparently.

Was also told it was not the pump but the oiling on the block IIRC, not like this person was trying to sell me anything either. But Blah blah blah game of telephone blah blah
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:48 AM   #82
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Could you elaborate? Someone at Prime told you about some changes to the oiling system of the RA block cases over the phone your saying?

Ian Hayes,
No one at prime.

Someone with connections to prime told me that they have a few with the wick turned all the way up without issue.

Do we know what’s actually different about the case halves yet? Because apparently the oiling system is a bit different but with similar main journals
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Old 01-07-2019, 02:06 PM   #83
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Ill take a look when I have one apart. I havent heard of much difference block case wise when it comes to the oiling system. I could be wrong though...
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:09 PM   #84
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I suppose it's possible some of the orifices in the galleys were changed in size slightly.


As far as stock blocks with "the wick turned all the way up" go, get back to me after a year and a leakdown test.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:50 AM   #85
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Quote:
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Because apparently the oiling system is a bit different but with similar main journals
Wishful thinking.

I guarantee Subaru didn't change anything on the casting mold tooling for only 500 cars in 2018.

The only reason the part number is likely different is that something changed in the final finish work done to the block to accept the new pistons as drop-ins *or* tolerances are a little tighter.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:37 PM   #86
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The same shortblock is used in the 2019 STi as well
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:39 AM   #87
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Yeah, the 2019 has the ra block for sure. The techs at Prime have installed a few of them. We havent dont much internally them. Honestly, we are currently more focused on the JDM VersionX We are bringing back the 2.0 with a vengeance. With the help of OutFront for closed decking services for the 2.0ltr. I dont really work on the cars there much but, the engine building section at Prime is home where I live for most of the week.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:18 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleJ View Post
The same shortblock is used in the 2019 STi as well
Yeah, I know. My point was that they wouldn't change the mold to only make 500 blocks for a full year's production. There is no way in hell that would be financially viable... especially when Subaru just posted their first annual loss.

Performance-wise, Subaru is in 'cut costs and pretend we're giving you more' mode.

rexworx, what is this VersionX you speak of? The EJ20 block hasn't changed much since 2008. Rather than closing a block, why not just source new EJ20G blocks for these builds (as factory teams have always done)?
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:18 AM   #89
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Edit: I meant the Ver10, not the 20x. My bad...

From my understanding, the new EJ20X uses a 2.5 case/sleeve. Then they only bore/hone it to the size of 2.0 pistons. Leaving lots a meat of a sleeve. We have swapped a few full longblocks into usdm 08sti's. Pretty much plug and play dvcs included.

Last edited by rexworx; 02-15-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:33 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexworx View Post
From my understanding, the new EJ20X uses a 2.5 case/sleeve. Then they only bore/hone it to the size of 2.0 pistons. Leaving lots a meat of a sleeve. We have swapped a few full longblocks into usdm 08sti's. Pretty much plug and play dvcs included.
The EJ20X and EJ20Y are actual motors totally unrelated to this discussion; the X is the auto transmission version and the Y is the manual transmission version - these were the first Dual AVCS motors in the early 2000's in the Legacy.

The thick liner EJ20 block has been updated like this since 2008. The cylinder walls are thicker and the cylinder supports are smaller. Reliability was generally considered to be much better from the rally shops in Europe I've spoken to.

If you want to buy a complete forged piston short block from Subaru Japan with the newer style thick liner block, the part number is 10103AC510 and they run about 259,200 JPY (about $2600-$2800 with freight). This is comparable to the Australian-market forged short block p/n 10103AB470, which was the older thin liner block for single-AVCS heads.

Heads are interchangeable though - the new blocks will easily accept the old single-AVCS EJ207 heads. Most of the plug-and-play considerations relate to cam control and cam position sensors so aside from the crank sensor (simple to deal with), the electrical really doesn't care which block you use. The 510 part no. is MUCH easier to source, as well - it is available direct through Japan while the 470 had to go through a middle-man in AUS.
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:44 PM   #91
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Can I use USDM EJ257 heads with AC510 forged block from Subaru?
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Old 01-22-2019, 04:03 PM   #92
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With some work, sure... but why would you? You'd be taking the lesser of the two head designs and the smaller displacement block...

FWIW, I've gotten some further information back from my source in Japan that AC510 is likely NOT forged but rather just hand-assembled and balanced to a closer tolerance than the standard assembly line parts.

The AC510 is a standard replacement part for things like the S208, new RA-R (not the 2007 model), and some other limited-run JDM models. None of which advertised forged pistons.

So to summarize the best choices:

10103AB470 - single AVCS, thin liner 2.0 short-block, forged pistons
10103AC510 - dual AVCS, thick liner 2.0 short-block, balanced internals
S209 USDM short block - dual AVCS, thick liner 2.5 (the only 2.5 forged piston option; actual availability of a short-block is unknown)... saying thick liner is relative also - it started out as a thick liner block and got bored to 2.5

Subaru will most likely NOT make the short-block option available as the short-block part numbers are a very rare way that Subaru offers parts. If you're building a 2.5, I wouldn't hold out for this to happen but rather just get the standard STI 2.5 block and stuff whatever pistons in it you want. The only reason the 2.0 short-blocks are nice is that they're assembled and ready to go - if you lose that benefit, the S209 pistons aren't going to be any better than aftermarket parts.
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Old 01-22-2019, 05:38 PM   #93
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Looking up the AC510 I found this as the stock photo for it. Definitely a unique looking piston from any Subarus I've seen.



Source: http://www.ultrasportracingcars.com/...190sn4cq6ru3n3
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:29 PM   #94
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Seen that picture as well... didn't know what to make of the piston marking but the AC510 part number in Subaru Japan's parts system equates to the replacement part for the special edition models I listed. Those models all have balanced motors but do not have any marketing that talks of forged parts.
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Old 01-23-2019, 08:53 AM   #95
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I have one of those blocks, its a W20C casting block used for Group-N homologation in the VA chassis cars, it doesnt have forged pistons.




Last edited by Bansheeboy11; 01-23-2019 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:15 PM   #96
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"...S209 USDM short block - dual AVCS, thick liner 2.5 (the only 2.5 forged piston option; actual availability of a short-block is unknown)..."

I like the idea of getting an OEM 2.5L forged piston block.

anyone with dealership connections can verify if S209 block will be available? If so, please post a part number?
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:54 PM   #97
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No part numbers have been posted, probably wont see those until summer. And if they run the parts for the S model here like they do in japan, you'll be able to buy the parts from the accessory catalog but wont be able to buy a complete short/long block.
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:29 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bansheeboy11 View Post
I have one of those blocks, its a W20C casting block used for Group-N homologation in the VA chassis cars, it doesnt have forged pistons.
Thank you!
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:13 PM   #99
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Can anyone confirm any of the rumors around the 2019 sti engine being able to handle more boost etc?
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:42 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
The EJ20X and EJ20Y are actual motors totally unrelated to this discussion; the X is the auto transmission version and the Y is the manual transmission version - these were the first Dual AVCS motors in the early 2000's in the Legacy.

The thick liner EJ20 block has been updated like this since 2008. The cylinder walls are thicker and the cylinder supports are smaller. Reliability was generally considered to be much better from the rally shops in Europe I've spoken to.

If you want to buy a complete forged piston short block from Subaru Japan with the newer style thick liner block, the part number is 10103AC510 and they run about 259,200 JPY (about $2600-$2800 with freight). This is comparable to the Australian-market forged short block p/n 10103AB470, which was the older thin liner block for single-AVCS heads.

Heads are interchangeable though - the new blocks will easily accept the old single-AVCS EJ207 heads. Most of the plug-and-play considerations relate to cam control and cam position sensors so aside from the crank sensor (simple to deal with), the electrical really doesn't care which block you use. The 510 part no. is MUCH easier to source, as well - it is available direct through Japan while the 470 had to go through a middle-man in AUS.
I just saw this and noticed my typo.

They are swapping in the jdm VER10 at times. Not the 20x. lol my fail!
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