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Old 02-15-2019, 06:52 AM   #1
Brenden13
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Default How much power and how much injector?

So I have I multi layer question for those whom actually know.
Part A: How much WHP would be considered safe on an IAG stg 2 Tuff using the standard 11mm ARP head studs (2000 series). IAG rates this block at 625 BHP, but doesnít specify what stud thatís with.

NOTE: car will be flex tuned, so peak power numbers will obviously be on E85

Part B: Is it ok to run ID1300ís on stock rails, lines, and FPR? I currently have a DW300c (340 lph), and IWire pump harness.
Or will I encounter fueling problems with that big of an injector on stock rails and Assoiciated bits?

Reason I ask is Iím about a two weeks away from my tuning appointment, I have poured two years and thousands upon thousands into this build. I have my heart set on making 450whp, and know my current ID1000ís are gonna leave me full of regrets in the end.
I asked my tuner these very same questions and his advice was to leave it on the 1000ís because he would limit the power anyway due to the block and studs. I feel like Iíve just been punched in the gut. Seriously ID1000ís should barely make high 300ís with decent IDCís according to the calculators.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:29 AM   #2
Brenden13
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Because I know someone is bound to ask.
The car is a 2013 WRX.
The build:
IAG stg 2Tuff.
Built heads, port/polish, +1mm, GSC stg 1 billet cams, Cosworth beehive springs and Ti retainer kit.
IAG TGV deletes.
Secondary air delete.
ID1000ís
Cobb flex fuel kit w/pressure sensor kit.
Tomie UEL header (yes unequal, Iím one of them)
GT2835-84T BB turbo. Stock location, internal gate.
Grimmspeed top mount intercooler.
Grimmspeed 3 port EBCS
Grimmspeed intake.
Perrin 2.5Ē turbo inlet.
Omni 3 bar MAP
Killer Bee pan, oil pickup, and windage tray.
OEM 11mm oil pump.
Mishimoto thermostatic oil cooler and x line Rad.
And of course an STI 6psd swap.
Iím sure Iíve missed a few bits, but thatís the build in a nutshell.
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:17 AM   #3
Brother EddieJ.
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What did IAG say when you called and asked them? I’d listen to them over the interwebs
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:30 AM   #4
rexmix_svx
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1995 SVX
oxidized red

Default inector size hp support

http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator has a decent calculator for the power limit you can expect out of the injectors. when I put in 1000cc and e85 I got roughly 500hp supported.
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:38 AM   #5
Turpid Porpoise
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ID1300 will support around 485WHP on E85 according to the FIC calculator assuming a base pressure of 43.5 PSI and 90% IDC.

I made 409whp on IAG's dynojet using FIC1000's on 93 octane. I would highly recommend replacing your FPR with an aftermarket unit.

I agree with Brother EddieJ, questions about the power capacity of the IAG block should be directed towards IAG.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:38 PM   #6
tsrapophis
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Injector Dynamics has a very good flow calculator as well that plots the expected performance of their products. Quick estimation shows that with 1000cc injectors you are likely going to run out of injector shy of 6000RPM if you keep to the 80% duty cycle rule.

As far as the block question goes it is likely that IAG's number is going to be a peak number that would yield a short lifespan; benefit of the doubt, your tuner may be considering a daily driver tune. Do you have another tuner local who can give you a second opinion, someone who specializes in Subarus?

http://injectordynamics.com/injector-selector/
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:09 PM   #7
Scuby04STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turpid Porpoise View Post
ID1300 will support around 485WHP on E85 according to the FIC calculator assuming a base pressure of 43.5 PSI and 90% IDC.

I made 409whp on IAG's dynojet using FIC1000's on 93 octane. I would highly recommend replacing your FPR with an aftermarket unit.

I agree with Brother EddieJ, questions about the power capacity of the IAG block should be directed towards IAG.
For a few reference points my car made 425whp on pump 92 with ID1000's IDC was in the mid 90% and it was spinning the motor to 8,000rpm (also where it made that power). Real whp reference was a 122mph trap speed and some low 11's


I ended up swapping to id1300's, tuned for e-85 and made 500whp again @8,000rpm with IDC in the low to mid 90's. Real whp reference was a 129mph trap and high 10's.


This has all been stock base pressure.


If you go with lines, rails, and fpr I have a set of the older style Perrin rails with the lines all still hooked up and my factory '04 fpr. if you want that stuff toss me a PM its just been sitting on my shelf.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:10 PM   #8
Brenden13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexmix_svx View Post
http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator has a decent calculator for the power limit you can expect out of the injectors. when I put in 1000cc and e85 I got roughly 500hp supported.

Yes Iím well aware of the calculators.
Better double check your numbers on that one my friend. According to the calculator 1000ís on E85 actually only supports about 374whp at 90% IDC. Which is not enough headroom to be safe IMO.
Unless you crank the static FP WAY up!!
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:23 PM   #9
Brenden13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother EddieJ. View Post
What did IAG say when you called and asked them? Iíd listen to them over the interwebs


So I talked to them some months ago. What I was told is that they wouldnít suggest running 500whp on the open deck block. But wouldnít exactly offer a whp # that they recommend as ďsafeĒ. When questioned on where the 625bhp # came from, the representative I was speaking with had less to say. By my rough estimate 625bhp - 20% for rough drivetrain losses should be approximately 500whp territory. Now I realize that it may very likely do this, but lifespan may also be very short.
So then with this in mind, then how much reduction from that point would net a nice reliable street car? 450? 400?
I mean shoot I made 300whp on my stock block for 40k before it gave up. Is the IAG stg 2 Tuff really only good for another 100 hp over that?
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:33 PM   #10
Brenden13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsrapophis View Post
Injector Dynamics has a very good flow calculator as well that plots the expected performance of their products. Quick estimation shows that with 1000cc injectors you are likely going to run out of injector shy of 6000RPM if you keep to the 80% duty cycle rule.

As far as the block question goes it is likely that IAG's number is going to be a peak number that would yield a short lifespan; benefit of the doubt, your tuner may be considering a daily driver tune. Do you have another tuner local who can give you a second opinion, someone who specializes in Subarus?

http://injectordynamics.com/injector-selector/


Exactly my thoughts on the injectors. Not only that but they arenít really going to make the power Iím hoping for.
When I questioned other tuners around me none of them seemed to feel as apprehensive about making power with this block setup. But then again none of them acted immediately and intimately familiar with the IAG stg 2 Tuff as my tuner seems to act. A couple shops said they wouldnít even tune the car without at minimum 1300ís in it, given the extent of the build. A couple seemed to think it was easily 500whp material. Tuning is obviously highly subjective lol.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:40 PM   #11
Brenden13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turpid Porpoise View Post
ID1300 will support around 485WHP on E85 according to the FIC calculator assuming a base pressure of 43.5 PSI and 90% IDC.

I made 409whp on IAG's dynojet using FIC1000's on 93 octane. I would highly recommend replacing your FPR with an aftermarket unit.

I agree with Brother EddieJ, questions about the power capacity of the IAG block should be directed towards IAG.


How does one go about replacing the FPR while retaining stock rails and lines?
Iíve searched for a product or kit to accomplish this but so far have come up empty handed. I realize I could cut up the hard lines and accomplish it that way. But I donít want to cut anything up. Besides itís reasonable to just go full aftermarket at that point anyway. If you know of anything that allows running an aftermarket FPR on the stock setup, I would be very appreciative to know about it.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:45 PM   #12
Brenden13
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Does anyone have a solid answer for my second question?
Can ID1300ís be safely run on stock fuel rails, lines, and FPR?
Will I be able to fully utilize the capacity of 1300ís?
Or will it fail to keep the injectors fed at proper pressure and volume?
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:53 PM   #13
Turpid Porpoise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenden13 View Post
How does one go about replacing the FPR while retaining stock rails and lines?
Iíve searched for a product or kit to accomplish this but so far have come up empty handed. I realize I could cut up the hard lines and accomplish it that way. But I donít want to cut anything up. Besides itís reasonable to just go full aftermarket at that point anyway. If you know of anything that allows running an aftermarket FPR on the stock setup, I would be very appreciative to know about it.
Cobb, IATuning, Radium Auto and just about any universal regulator on the market. All you need are 3/8Ē hardline adapters to attach to the stock rails and stock firewall connections.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:58 PM   #14
viper_crazy
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Here's a general overview of a "DIY AFPR kit" on my 2008 WRX, which I believe is the same for all 2008-14 WRX.


Last edited by viper_crazy; 02-15-2019 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:23 PM   #15
Brenden13
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Thank you Viper_crazy. Iíll look for that regulator adapter.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:53 PM   #16
viper_crazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenden13 View Post
Thank you Viper_crazy. Iíll look for that regulator adapter.
It's liked in the description if it helps any.
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