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Old 06-25-2004, 01:31 AM   #26
Wombat North
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Steve
What's the change that has been made to the exhaust housing to prevent cracking.

Have you a base cost for the housings.

Will SPO carry a good supply of housings. The last thing I would want is to be told its got to come from Australia and it will be weeks.

As for the 2 different exhaust housings used the difference is just a GT30-10 exhaust and a GT30-12 exhaust. All one has to do is bore out the 450hp -10 to fit the 500hp -12 correct?

FWIW
I do like your products and the assistance you have given me by email over the last year. I'm waiting for Turboxs to get a clutch for their STI so they can finish testing the FP green and then put on my 450 so that we can get some baselines so others can see your great product. I for one will not use a non watercooled centre section like the Green. Watch me get flamed for that statement.
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Old 06-25-2004, 02:10 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wombat North
Steve
What's the change that has been made to the exhaust housing to prevent cracking.

Have you a base cost for the housings.

Will SPO carry a good supply of housings. The last thing I would want is to be told its got to come from Australia and it will be weeks.

As for the 2 different exhaust housings used the difference is just a GT30-10 exhaust and a GT30-12 exhaust. All one has to do is bore out the 450hp -10 to fit the 500hp -12 correct?

FWIW
I do like your products and the assistance you have given me by email over the last year. I'm waiting for Turboxs to get a clutch for their STI so they can finish testing the FP green and then put on my 450 so that we can get some baselines so others can see your great product. I for one will not use a non watercooled centre section like the Green. Watch me get flamed for that statement.
There are at least 4 different variations of the 500hp turbo due to the different heat shielding supplied by Garrett, we will send a number of housings over initially but I'm afraid some patience is going to be required and they may very well need to be done on an individual basis.

We will do what we can to make it as quick as possible.
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Old 06-25-2004, 02:19 AM   #28
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Would some measurements on our part(s) help in making those decisions?
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Old 06-25-2004, 07:22 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthChicken
Would some measurements on our part(s) help in making those decisions?

Of course.

Once we have some housings we will send some over (it will depend on who contacts me and what they have/want/need) the important information is the cartridge size and whether it has the large or the small heatshield.

Steve.
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Old 06-25-2004, 12:01 PM   #30
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Mike got his from SPO. Its a 450 and it had about 1000 miles on it. I will get a pic of the reciept. Mike is at the Pikes peak rally/show with the car right now (with a huge AVO banner on it by the way). Once he returns to the shop we will email it to you. I guess this leaves me ****ed as I got my turbo used on the nasioc market. I dont understand why I just cant buy a replacement housing. Makes no sense to me. I have a -15 cartridge in mine and I have a trusted turbo builder here in the states.. If I had a new housing my turbo builder could simply fit it and send the turbo back to me.

C
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Old 06-25-2004, 01:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
I guess this leaves me ****ed as I got my turbo used on the nasioc market. I dont understand why I just cant buy a replacement housing. Makes no sense to me. I have a -15 cartridge in mine and I have a trusted turbo builder here in the states.. If I had a new housing my turbo builder could simply fit it and send the turbo back to me.

C
I'm in the same boat. Its the way alot of business is done in Australia. Left over from the convict days of not trusting anyone. I know, I'm an Aussie.
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Old 06-25-2004, 02:30 PM   #32
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I see no mention of the 450 turbos in avoturbo's response, yet earlier posts reference the 450's cracking, too. (I know its the same housing.) I've got one (a 450) enroute from XS Engineering right now and, frankly, I am considering sending it back. How would one identify the redesigned housing? I'm not willing to accept an expensive turbocharger with the knowledge it will most probably fail.

Further, as SPO has been designated as AVO's agent for exchange of housings, why is SPO not designated as agent for warranty repairs? It doesn't seem such a leap of faith to me as there is an inherent design defect and numerous dissatisfied customers faced with onerous, international shipping charges.

I'm sorry gents, but when you pay top dollar, you should expect top performance, longevity, and customer service.
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Old 06-25-2004, 02:34 PM   #33
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Which XS turbo do you have? The XS 450 is NOT the same as the AVO450. The XS450 is the same as the AVO400...

Quote:
Originally posted by MisterX
I see no mention of the 450 turbos in avoturbo's response, yet earlier posts reference the 450's cracking, too. (I know its the same housing.) I've got one (a 450) enroute from XS Engineering right now and, frankly, I am considering sending it back. How would one identify the redesigned housing? I'm not willing to accept an expensive turbocharger with the knowledge it will most probably fail.

Further, as SPO has been designated as AVO's agent for exchange of housings, why is SPO not designated as agent for warranty repairs? It doesn't seem such a leap of faith to me as there is an inherent design defect and numerous dissatisfied customers faced with onerous, international shipping charges.

I'm sorry gents, but when you pay top dollar, you should expect top performance, longevity, and customer service.
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Old 06-25-2004, 02:38 PM   #34
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That's not what XS says.
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Old 06-25-2004, 03:20 PM   #35
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FWIW
Red Rocket who has since been banned from here had a XS500 which spec'd out as an AVO450.
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Old 06-25-2004, 03:24 PM   #36
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I recall having read that. I'll have to wait until it arrives to see what it is for certain.
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Old 06-25-2004, 05:22 PM   #37
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if you look at the avo website info on the data for the turbos, the 450 does not have the same turbine wheel. the housing will be thicker at the critical area and i think you should be ok. don't know about the xs stuff. the whole line of avo turbos kick ass!

Last edited by turbo2nr; 06-25-2004 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 06-25-2004, 05:33 PM   #38
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450's crack just the same as 500's do. Most of the ones I know of where all 450's.. All cracked.

C
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Old 06-25-2004, 08:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
Mike got his from SPO. Its a 450 and it had about 1000 miles on it. I will get a pic of the reciept. Mike is at the Pikes peak rally/show with the car right now (with a huge AVO banner on it by the way). Once he returns to the shop we will email it to you. I guess this leaves me ****ed as I got my turbo used on the nasioc market. I dont understand why I just cant buy a replacement housing. Makes no sense to me. I have a -15 cartridge in mine and I have a trusted turbo builder here in the states.. If I had a new housing my turbo builder could simply fit it and send the turbo back to me.

C
So what are you saying? You don't remember who you bought it off? You can't give us a name and a date.

The reason we require proof of purchase is because ever since we released these turbos EVERYONE in the USA has been trying to 'JUST BUY A HOUSING' obviously so they can build their own turbo. Surely you can see why that is an issue for us?

Why is it such a big deal for you to provide proof that you puchased an AVO turbo? It shouldn't be difficult at all.

Love to see some pics sometime of this car covered in AVO banners too.

Anyway, didn't you created your own hybrid turbo with a 320hp housing?
According to you this hybrid was the duck's guts..??
So why do you want another large housing anyway?


Cheers,
Steve.
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http://www.avoturbo.com

Last edited by avoturbo; 06-25-2004 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 06-25-2004, 08:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
450's crack just the same as 500's do. Most of the ones I know of where all 450's.. All cracked.

C
LOL, According to your posts Clark, more turbos have cracked than we have actually sold into the USA.

Steve.
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Old 06-25-2004, 08:13 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by MisterX
I see no mention of the 450 turbos in avoturbo's response, yet earlier posts reference the 450's cracking, too. (I know its the same housing.) I've got one (a 450) enroute from XS Engineering right now and, frankly, I am considering sending it back. How would one identify the redesigned housing? I'm not willing to accept an expensive turbocharger with the knowledge it will most probably fail.

Further, as SPO has been designated as AVO's agent for exchange of housings, why is SPO not designated as agent for warranty repairs? It doesn't seem such a leap of faith to me as there is an inherent design defect and numerous dissatisfied customers faced with onerous, international shipping charges.

I'm sorry gents, but when you pay top dollar, you should expect top performance, longevity, and customer service.
Have you bothered to read my earlier posts?

If there was a design flaw then we would have turbos failing in other locations besides the USA, this has NOT happened. We have altered the pattern in an attempt to make them more resistant to whatever is causing the USA turbos to fail.

I have yet to see ANY evidence of a 450hp turbo failing with this issue.

You guys can choose to believe whomever you like, I have no control over that. All I can do is tell you the facts, after that it's up to you.

In terms of customer service and SPO fixing turbos, please read my earlier posts, I can't really see what else we can do.

And in your case in particular MisterX, you don't even have a turbo yet...


Steve Coates.
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Old 06-25-2004, 08:48 PM   #42
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Avoturbo wrote:
Quote:
We will make available a replacement housing via SPO that you will have to purchase and cover the inland freight from SPO.
So should the hot side of my turbo crack, you'll allow me to purchase the parts needed to repair it and feel justified that you provided adequate service? And then you taunt me for being a customer?

My turbo arrived at approximately 3:30 PM, today. It will ship out approximately 9:00 AM, Monday. I'll gladly pay restocking charges which will be worth my peace of mind.

You've really comported yourself miserably here. After reading your posts, even if the turbo had no inherent defect, I'd send it back.
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Old 06-25-2004, 09:12 PM   #43
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i will buy your turbo. do not send it back. please contact me via e-mail. i have faith in the avo turbos and you need to understand that steve is trying to help faithful customers and not just help people make their own turbos. i'm sure it is very expensive to have a custom housing cast and i doubt anyone at avo is making millions off of these. this is the world of racing and aftermarket parts. take it or leave it. no part is going to be perfect. aftermarket companies do not have the money of car manufactures to do research and delevopment over and over. i have had to modify or correct almost everything i have put on my cars except avo products and just keep plugging along. avo products are among the best in the world for subarus. please do not be mad at my favorite company. they are car nutz just like you and me and do it for the passion of the sport, not to get rich!
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Old 06-25-2004, 09:21 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by MisterX

So should the hot side of my turbo crack, you'll allow me to purchase the parts needed to repair it and feel justified that you provided adequate service? And then you taunt me for being a customer?

My turbo arrived at approximately 3:30 PM, today. It will ship out approximately 9:00 AM, Monday. I'll gladly pay restocking charges which will be worth my peace of mind.

You've really comported yourself miserably here. After reading your posts, even if the turbo had no inherent defect, I'd send it back. [/b]
Perhaps if you actually read my earlier post rather than a part of it you would understand things better, and I don't appreciate being misquoted. The quote you have used above is for people not prepared to return their turbo for warranty inspection.

And in your particular case none of it is relevant as you would be dealing directly with with X&S as that was your point of purchase.

If the hot side of your turbo should crack (and as I've mentioned earlier I have NOT seen a 450hp cracked yet) you would need to return it for warranty inspection, if it is a manufacturing defect then it will be repaired for free.

What part of this procedure from my earlier post don't you understand?
What part of this is different to the way ANY other manufacturer does business?
I have arranged a compromise for people who do not want to pay for shipping or don't want their turbo inspected.

I am continually bombarded by requests from the USA for 'just a housing'. Why do you think that is? Do they want to try to copy it as others have? Or do they want to build their own turbo from it?
These are the people your anger should be directed at as these are the people making it harder for all of us. Or perhaps you think we should make the housings available for anyone that wants one?

As I have mentioned earlier, when I challenge these people (who 'just' want another housing) to prove to me they ACTUALLY have one of our turbos they shrivel up and disappear, or make all kinds of excuses.

What would you do in my place?


Interesting side note here: To my knowledge there have been NO issues with any turbos sold through X&S, make of that what you will.

Last edited by avoturbo; 06-25-2004 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 06-25-2004, 09:47 PM   #45
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Steve,
Here is where Clark used the 450 to put the -12 cartridge.

It comes from this thread page 6.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=avo+450
Clark does speak highly of you turbos on page 1 BTW
Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
Thats probably the weakest motor you could have put together. How bad is it? Are you going to put some liners in and slap it back together or did some water get in and lock a piston? Going 2.0?

I got the AVO450 sitting here. Taking it over to Ben tomorrow. I will let you know what we find. This guy is trashed. The housings look good but thats about it. I am praying I can fit the -12 or larger in it.

Cya

CT
People with cracked turbos
As yet I have seen no proof from anyone that these are cracked. Pics please

I also have been following these forums for over 2 years and have not seen anyone till now post on cracking AVO's. I follow the Australian forums very closely as well and haven't seen anything but good reviews on the AVO turbo's.

I've emailed quite a bit to Jeff Perrin on the AVO turbos and the cracking has never come up.

Are you people with cracked turbos a closed group society or something and wait till the right time to strike.


Steve

What have you done differently to the housings to improve them as I asked previously. How can we tell if we have a new redesigned one

The $64 question is that if you have no failures overseas(AUS) and only a few here why the redesign then.

As I have a used rebuilt AVO 450 I would like to purchase a new housing and I WILL RETURN the "good" not cracked housing as a swap before you send me the new one. Are you up for that?

As its Saturday their Steve have a few VB's mate and stop thinking the turbo casting pirates are just outside your door.
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:21 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wombat North

Steve

What have you done differently to the housings to improve them as I asked previously. How can we tell if we have a new redesigned one
Relocated the wastegate hole slightly to allow for as thick as possible divider on the 500hp units.

Quote:
The $64 question is that if you have no failures overseas(AUS) and only a few here why the redesign then.
Because we have had 2 returned with cracks from the USA that can't be 100% proven to be from misuse. And as with all of our products we try to continually improve them and make them more robust.

The only issues I've ever seen with housings (ours, Garrett's or IHI's) have been from excessive/incorrect use of anti-lag (as per my earlier post)

Quote:
As I have a used rebuilt AVO 450 I would like to purchase a new housing and I WILL RETURN the "good" not cracked housing as a swap before you send me the new one. Are you up for that?
How long has it been on the car for? Why would you want to swap it if there's nothing wrong with it? We will swap it if you want but it does seem unnecessary.

Quote:
As its Saturday their Steve have a few VB's mate and stop thinking the turbo casting pirates are just outside your door. [/b]
LOL, you have no idea, the pirates are ALWAYS just outside the door...

From your post are you saying that Clark had one of our 450hp housings machined out over there to fit a -12 into it and it cracked after that? Is that correct? And that he used a housing from a turbo that had already trashed the centre section? Garrett centre sections are very, very good. It takes a LOT if abuse to kill them, I wonder how good the housing was before he started....

Cheers,
Steve
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:24 PM   #47
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You have not been misquoted. Everyone following the thread knows the issue is your failure to provide economical warranty service (sans exorbitant international shipping charges) to US customers. I suspect the idea may occur to you. Some day. If you can allow SPO to provide housings at a fee, in spite of your paranoia, certainly you can appoint a warranty agent in the States.

I purchased the turbo from XS and will, thankfully, deal with them. They're a far less arrogant bunch. As you are the actual manufacturer, I don't trust the part. I did until you started spouting off insults, but not now. You're far too defensive to be guileless. You've redesigned a turbine housing you assert needs no redesign, except of course, if it's used in the US. Your logic evades me, I'm sorry.

Perhaps the cracking is caused by the polarity of the crystalline structure in the matrix of the metal within the casting once it's sent to our side of the world. Whatever it is, I don't want to deal with it.
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:31 PM   #48
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come on, avo is willing to work with anyone with a receipt. what else can they do? i think one one or two people have actually had a problem and it may have even been our fault, but they will fix it anyway. sounds like an honest company company to me. nobody has been a jerk to you. no company wants to deal with customers who talk like that. i would hope you can see the good side to this and keep your turbo and be happy with it's performance

Last edited by turbo2nr; 06-25-2004 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:35 PM   #49
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To say AVO is dealing fairly is the same as saying it would be decent for Sony to require you to ship your TV to Japan for inspection and warranty service.
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:39 PM   #50
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most racing parts come with no warrentee! we are lucky!
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