Re-Mapped ECU Learning Trick 10-20hp in 5 seconds :)

Vishnu Performance · 01-16-2003, 04:02 AM

Just a little trick that has been shown to accelerate the factory ECU's ignition timing learning process.

Background: There is something called "Ignition Advance Multiplier". It represents, by some complicated algorithm, the average learned positive knock correction applied to the ignition maps. It's represented in 1/8th degrees increments. 1 being the lowest and 16 being the highest (1/8 to 2 degrees in absolute terms).

The "happier" (knock free) the car is, the higher the number will be. Conversely, the lower it is, the more knock prone it is. This number, after ECU reset ore ECU swap defaults to 8 and usually creeps up to 16 (if well mapped) through normal driving. Depending on driving characteristics, this can happen within a few hours or a few weeks. Well, here's a way to make it happen in about 5 seconds

....

First: With the car fully warmed up, reset the ECU. This can be done by killing power the ECU or by simply pulling off the neg. battery terminal and pressing the brake pedal for a couple of seconds.

Second: Drive to a nice open road without traffic. Don't go on boost until you get there. Put the car into gear (3rd gear works the best) bring the revs up to 2600rpm. Push the go pedal down slightly so boost stays right around 2-4psi. You will need to MAINTAIN 2500rpm and 2-5psi for approx 5 seconds. You can do this by left-foot braking gently as to prevent acceleration. During these few seconds, the advance multiplier (which you can't see so you'll have to trust me) will go from 8, to 12 and then to 16. Works like a charm. And on our reflashed ECU, is worth an immediate 10-20 horsepower

In an attempt to save a lot of dyno time between reflashes (when the advance multiplier resets itself), I do this little trick after every reflash. In a typical dyno session, it's not unusual to reflash the same car up to 5 times. On the dyno, all I need to do is tell the dyno to hold revs to 2600rpm. Then I just lay on the throttle until I see a few psi of boost... Bingo!

Warning: This little trick artificially speeds up the learning process. This is only a good thing if the re-mapped ECU is mapped properly. If there are trouble-spots where knock is present, this trick will make it even more present. So be careful!

Cheers,
shiv
www.vishnutuning.com

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

jcme262 · 01-16-2003, 04:14 AM

good stuff Shiv,
i'll give it a go in the am

Kwyjibo · 01-16-2003, 04:26 AM

This is good for 10-20hp on the stock ECU?? Or you do this to the stock ECU before you start playing with it to tune it more??

fimotorsports · 01-16-2003, 06:35 AM

very nice, I'll have to try, thanks for the info!

Dan

JimmyOOOOO · 01-16-2003, 09:31 AM

Shiv, how high do you think boost can go using this method? I was wondering if it might be easier to set my SBC-iD at wastegate spring pressure (~6.5psi) so I wouldn't have to watch the speedo, boost gauge, AND road all at the same time.

Thanks for taking the time to post this info BTW.

fimotorsports · 01-16-2003, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JimmyOOOOO
Shiv, how high do you think boost can go using this method? I was wondering if it might be easier to set my SBC-iD at wastegate spring pressure (~6.5psi) so I wouldn't have to watch the speedo, boost gauge, AND road all at the same time.

Thanks for taking the time to post this info BTW.

why would you do that, it only takes 5 seconds!

JimmyOOOOO · 01-16-2003, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Triple X

why would you do that, it only takes 5 seconds!

in 3rd gear at 2600 RPM, you probably travel anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 mile... a lot can happen in that distance if you get distracted from what's happening on the road.

Need4Boost · 01-16-2003, 11:21 AM

Good stuff Shiv!

You want to do this for me when you come to NJ?

Will this work as effective for a UniChimp?

-Sinclair

Slvrblt · 01-16-2003, 11:40 AM

kwyjibo- I think he's referring to re-mapped ecu, or not stock is another way to put it

cool stuff

speed safely

Brian

JohnGalt00 · 01-16-2003, 01:01 PM

What he was saying is that it's worth 10-20 hp on a remapped ECU. The stock ECU uses the same algorithm to learn, so the trick will work on a stock ECU, just with somewhat less impressive gains

Vishnu Performance · 01-16-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnGalt00
What he was saying is that it's worth 10-20 hp on a remapped ECU. The stock ECU uses the same algorithm to learn, so the trick will work on a stock ECU, just with somewhat less impressive gains

That is correct. The learning ability of the stock ECU on a stock car is somewhat limited. It doesn't take long for it to advance itself as far as its conservative knock correction maps will let it. But it's a good trick to use if you have just reset the ECU and want to get back up to full power quickly.

JimmyOOOOO-- Boost needs to be considerably less than standard base wastegate pressure. Really no choice but to watch the tach, boost and road at the same time. It also takes a steady left foot.

Shiv

JimmyOOOOO · 01-16-2003, 01:44 PM

cool... thanks for the speedy reply Shiv

RiftsWRX · 01-16-2003, 02:10 PM

Wow!

Thanks Shiv!

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com

juztin180 · 01-16-2003, 02:43 PM

cool, something to try on the way to work this afternoon

David@Vishnu · 01-16-2003, 02:44 PM

This takes the cake as the best free mod EVAR!! thanks shiv it works perfect!

Dave_MacKinnon · 01-16-2003, 05:48 PM

Wow, nobody ever gives out great tips like this... Thanks Shiv!

FRWRX · 01-16-2003, 05:54 PM

Thanks Shiv,
Whenyou say : "If there are trouble-spots where knock is present, this trick will make it even more present. So be careful!"

Won't the ECU retard back again down by 4° in such case ? Or will the ECU keep this maximum advanced timing even if knock is encountered ?

Snowphun · 01-16-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JimmyOOOOO
in 3rd gear at 2600 RPM, you probably travel anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 mile...

Might want to rethink that, as those distances in 5 seconds work out to 90-180mph.

Paul

AZScoobie · 01-16-2003, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vishnu Performance
Just a little trick that has been shown to accelerate the factory ECU's ignition timing learning process.

Background: There is something called "Ignition Advance Multiplier". It represents, by some complicated algorithm, the average learned positive knock correction applied to the ignition maps. It's represented in 1/8th degrees increments. 1 being the lowest and 16 being the highest (1/8 to 2 degrees in absolute terms).

The "happier" (knock free) the car is, the higher the number will be. Conversely, the lower it is, the more knock prone it is. This number, after ECU reset ore ECU swap defaults to 8 and usually creeps up to 16 (if well mapped) through normal driving. Depending on driving characteristics, this can happen within a few hours or a few weeks. Well, here's a way to make it happen in about 5 seconds ....

First: With the car fully warmed up, reset the ECU. This can be done by killing power the ECU or by simply pulling off the neg. battery terminal and pressing the brake pedal for a couple of seconds.

Second: Drive to a nice open road without traffic. Don't go on boost until you get there. Put the car into gear (3rd gear works the best) bring the revs up to 2600rpm. Push the go pedal down slightly so boost stays right around 2-4psi. You will need to MAINTAIN 2500rpm and 2-5psi for approx 5 seconds. You can do this by left-foot braking gently as to prevent acceleration. During these few seconds, the advance multiplier (which you can't see so you'll have to trust me) will go from 8, to 12 and then to 16. Works like a charm. And on our reflashed ECU, is worth an immediate 10-20 horsepower

In an attempt to save a lot of dyno time between reflashes (when the advance multiplier resets itself), I do this little trick after every reflash. In a typical dyno session, it's not unusual to reflash the same car up to 5 times. On the dyno, all I need to do is tell the dyno to hold revs to 2600rpm. Then I just lay on the throttle until I see a few psi of boost... Bingo!

Warning: This little trick artificially speeds up the learning process. This is only a good thing if the re-mapped ECU is mapped properly. If there are trouble-spots where knock is present, this trick will make it even more present. So be careful!

Cheers,
shiv
www.vishnutuning.com

Thanks for the tip Shiv... Wanted to just state that left ft braking while in boost will drain the vac from the brakes power booster. This will cause the brakes to have no power assist.. Wont hurt anything.. just beware that you might not have strong brakes until you get back into vac.. I found this out on my car while doing some road tuning the otherday. Just FYI.

CT

yebokmj · 01-16-2003, 07:03 PM

Any Idea if this would work for NA ecu's? In my case a turboed NA car.
Thanks,
Joshua

Vishnu Performance · 01-16-2003, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AZScoobie

Thanks for the tip Shiv... Wanted to just state that left ft braking while in boost will drain the vac from the brakes power booster. This will cause the brakes to have no power assist.. Wont hurt anything.. just beware that you might not have strong brakes until you get back into vac.. I found this out on my car while doing some road tuning the otherday. Just FYI.

CT

That problem really won't be an issue with such little boost pressure. If you were to go WOT and sustain 1.2 bar of boost for several seconds, that would be another story.

Regards,
shiv

mlambert · 01-16-2003, 07:42 PM

You rock shiv, great tip!

JimmyOOOOO · 01-16-2003, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vishnu Performance

That problem really won't be an issue with such little boost pressure. If you were to go WOT and sustain 1.2 bar of boost for several seconds, that would be another story.

Regards,
shiv

my great-grandaddy always used to say... "better safe than sorry when it comes to yer brakes!"

ShotgunTC88 · 01-16-2003, 09:27 PM

Shiv,
(Ok, I know im an idiot for askin,.....just anal<G>)

So what your sayin here is..........10-20 more hp on TOP of the hp you get AFTER the ECUTEK 25hp Reflash to stock E.C.U?

Dam..........!!

I need drink.........LOL!

SHotgun

wayoutwest · 01-16-2003, 09:42 PM

No, he is saying you dont have to wait 1-2 weeks for the 'learning' of the 25hp ... you can induce it immediately.

01-16-2003, 04:02 AM	#1
Vishnu Performance Vendor Member#: 14494 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, California Vehicle: WRX Porsche 996 blue & black	Re-Mapped ECU Learning Trick 10-20hp in 5 seconds :) Just a little trick that has been shown to accelerate the factory ECU's ignition timing learning process. Background: There is something called "Ignition Advance Multiplier". It represents, by some complicated algorithm, the average learned positive knock correction applied to the ignition maps. It's represented in 1/8th degrees increments. 1 being the lowest and 16 being the highest (1/8 to 2 degrees in absolute terms). The "happier" (knock free) the car is, the higher the number will be. Conversely, the lower it is, the more knock prone it is. This number, after ECU reset ore ECU swap defaults to 8 and usually creeps up to 16 (if well mapped) through normal driving. Depending on driving characteristics, this can happen within a few hours or a few weeks. Well, here's a way to make it happen in about 5 seconds .... First: With the car fully warmed up, reset the ECU. This can be done by killing power the ECU or by simply pulling off the neg. battery terminal and pressing the brake pedal for a couple of seconds. Second: Drive to a nice open road without traffic. Don't go on boost until you get there. Put the car into gear (3rd gear works the best) bring the revs up to 2600rpm. Push the go pedal down slightly so boost stays right around 2-4psi. You will need to MAINTAIN 2500rpm and 2-5psi for approx 5 seconds. You can do this by left-foot braking gently as to prevent acceleration. During these few seconds, the advance multiplier (which you can't see so you'll have to trust me) will go from 8, to 12 and then to 16. Works like a charm. And on our reflashed ECU, is worth an immediate 10-20 horsepower In an attempt to save a lot of dyno time between reflashes (when the advance multiplier resets itself), I do this little trick after every reflash. In a typical dyno session, it's not unusual to reflash the same car up to 5 times. On the dyno, all I need to do is tell the dyno to hold revs to 2600rpm. Then I just lay on the throttle until I see a few psi of boost... Bingo! Warning: This little trick artificially speeds up the learning process. This is only a good thing if the re-mapped ECU is mapped properly. If there are trouble-spots where knock is present, this trick will make it even more present. So be careful! Cheers, shiv www.vishnutuning.com * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

01-16-2003, 07:03 PM	#20
yebokmj Scooby Specialist Member#: 2213 Join Date: Aug 2000 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Salem, NH USA Vehicle: 1995 Impreza w/EJ257 Brilliant Red	None WRX? Any Idea if this would work for NA ecu's? In my case a turboed NA car. Thanks, Joshua

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01-16-2003, 04:14 AM	#2
jcme262 Scooby Specialist Member#: 13694 Join Date: Dec 2001 Chapter/Region: NWIC	good stuff Shiv, i'll give it a go in the am

01-16-2003, 04:26 AM	#3
Kwyjibo Scooby Specialist Member#: 17851 Join Date: Apr 2002	This is good for 10-20hp on the stock ECU?? Or you do this to the stock ECU before you start playing with it to tune it more??

01-16-2003, 06:35 AM	#4
fimotorsports Scooby Newbie Member#: 31773 Join Date: Jan 2003 Vehicle: 03 Evo8 9.2 @ 156	very nice, I'll have to try, thanks for the info! Dan

01-16-2003, 09:31 AM	#5
JimmyOOOOO Scooby Specialist Member#: 12647 Join Date: Nov 2001 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Syracuse NY Vehicle: 2011 STi Obsidian Black Swirl	Shiv, how high do you think boost can go using this method? I was wondering if it might be easier to set my SBC-iD at wastegate spring pressure (~6.5psi) so I wouldn't have to watch the speedo, boost gauge, AND road all at the same time. Thanks for taking the time to post this info BTW.

01-16-2003, 11:21 AM	#8
Need4Boost Scooby Specialist Member#: 15194 Join Date: Feb 2002 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: 1^2 Mile, NJ Vehicle: 2004 Lightning, 2001 BMW 330ci	Good stuff Shiv! You want to do this for me when you come to NJ? Will this work as effective for a UniChimp? -Sinclair

01-16-2003, 11:40 AM	#9
Slvrblt Scooby Guru Member#: 4811 Join Date: Mar 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Warper of Young Minds Vehicle: 2014 Focus ST NESIC track Ho #35	kwyjibo- I think he's referring to re-mapped ecu, or not stock is another way to put it cool stuff speed safely Brian

01-16-2003, 01:01 PM	#10
JohnGalt00 Scooby Newbie Member#: 17035 Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Vehicle: 02 WRX Black	What he was saying is that it's worth 10-20 hp on a remapped ECU. The stock ECU uses the same algorithm to learn, so the trick will work on a stock ECU, just with somewhat less impressive gains

01-16-2003, 01:44 PM	#12
JimmyOOOOO Scooby Specialist Member#: 12647 Join Date: Nov 2001 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Syracuse NY Vehicle: 2011 STi Obsidian Black Swirl	cool... thanks for the speedy reply Shiv

01-16-2003, 02:10 PM	#13
RiftsWRX Scooby Guru Member#: 6124 Join Date: Apr 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA Vehicle: 2000 NFR AP1 S2000 '07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)	Wow! Thanks Shiv! Jorge (RiftsWRX) www.ProjectWRX.com

01-16-2003, 02:43 PM	#14
juztin180 Scooby Specialist Member#: 11804 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: New Smyrna Beach/Daytona Beach	cool, something to try on the way to work this afternoon

01-16-2003, 02:44 PM	#15
David@Vishnu Scooby Specialist Member#: 13004 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: I dont really remember Vehicle: 2002 Pump Gas Homo	This takes the cake as the best free mod EVAR!! thanks shiv it works perfect!

01-16-2003, 05:48 PM	#16
Dave_MacKinnon Scooby Specialist Member#: 10823 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Burlington, Ontario Vehicle: 2007 STi Silver	Wow, nobody ever gives out great tips like this... Thanks Shiv!

01-16-2003, 05:54 PM	#17
FRWRX Scooby Newbie Member#: 15306 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: FRANCE Vehicle: 2011 STi White pearl	Thanks Shiv, Whenyou say : "If there are trouble-spots where knock is present, this trick will make it even more present. So be careful!" Won't the ECU retard back again down by 4° in such case ? Or will the ECU keep this maximum advanced timing even if knock is encountered ?

01-16-2003, 07:42 PM	#22
mlambert Scooby Guru Member#: 13831 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 99 problems but a bitch aint 1	You rock shiv, great tip!

01-16-2003, 09:27 PM	#24
ShotgunTC88 Scooby Newbie Member#: 30970 Join Date: Dec 2002	Shiv, (Ok, I know im an idiot for askin,.....just anal<G>) So what your sayin here is..........10-20 more hp on TOP of the hp you get AFTER the ECUTEK 25hp Reflash to stock E.C.U? Dam..........!! I need drink.........LOL! SHotgun

01-16-2003, 09:42 PM	#25
wayoutwest Scooby Specialist Member#: 14379 Join Date: Jan 2002 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: www.greenroom.net Vehicle: 2018 Civic Type R Championship White	No, he is saying you dont have to wait 1-2 weeks for the 'learning' of the 25hp ... you can induce it immediately.