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Old 01-06-2008, 07:39 PM   #626
BIGSKYWRX
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For a daily driver I'd seriously think about canting the plates, you should still get your -2.0 up front AND ~ another degree of positive caster

rear-to be honest, unless you have some glaring cross camber issues- leave it where it's at- right at -1.5, if it happens to be a lot higher than that (or bad cross camber) THEN I would consider camber bolts for the rear- otherwise I'd leave it as is, no fuss, no muss
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Old 01-06-2008, 07:51 PM   #627
TheAnser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
For a daily driver I'd seriously think about canting the plates, you should still get your -2.0 up front AND ~ another degree of positive caster

rear-to be honest, unless you have some glaring cross camber issues- leave it where it's at- right at -1.5, if it happens to be a lot higher than that (or bad cross camber) THEN I would consider camber bolts for the rear- otherwise I'd leave it as is, no fuss, no muss
BIGSKY coming through as always! I like the no fuss no muss mantra, part of the reason I went with strut/spring combo as opposed to coilovers.

Next question: what is canting? I tried looking it up on the WWW and only found things regarding ski bindings? lol

upon searching on here (DUH) I came up with this

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=canting

so is canting simply rotating the camber plate 90 degrees?

edit #2 - I just read that whole thread and I think I am going to stick with them the way they are, mostly due to the fact that I won't have any time to do it tomorrow before I drop my car off at the alignment shop. I work 8-4:30 and need the car their by 5...I'll run it like this for now.

-Orion-

Last edited by TheAnser; 01-06-2008 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:08 PM   #628
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yup that's it

you can rotate the tops pretty easy/quick (maybe not quick enough for your schedule though ), just undo one side of the sway bar, put a floor jack underneath the ball joint, remove the three strut top nuts, lower w/ the jack just enough to rotate the plate, raise it back up and put the nuts back on, repeat the other side, refasten the sway link
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:49 PM   #629
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A couple quick pics of the springs on an '04 to hold you fella's over until I can get some better pics after the alignment!

Suspension consists of:

RCE Wagon Springs
RCE Lowering Front Camber Plates
Group-N Rear Tophats
TiC Rear Spacers
03 Donor Struts
Koni Inserts

Perfect Stance in my eyes...what do you think?

1.

2.

3.




-Orion-
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:08 PM   #630
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looks different in each picture, but should be a killer setup once aligned!
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:13 PM   #631
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The first and third pictures are same day less than 5 minutes apart. The fleeting sunlight didn't help at all. I will get some straight on side shots in good lighting HOPEFULLY this weekend. Even if the car is dirty as all hell.

Picture two is probably the best representation of the height on the most level ground available (cement slab in the garage).

I took some quick measurements last night:

Both fronts are right in between 13 and 9/16" and 13 and 5/8" The rear's are both right around 13.5" to 13 and 9/16". The rear was measured from the actual painted fender, not that rubber/plastic thing on the inner fender lip.

-Orion-
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:05 PM   #632
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-Orion-
Looks incredible. I love the even stance....makes the raked stance of RCE's with GrpN's glaringly obvious.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:43 PM   #633
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looks like the RCE plates dropped you very close to the 8-10mm as advertised

the rear springs right at the advertised 30mm

^ that actually is a raked stance a even drop front/rear will result in a ride height in the front ~ 10mm higher than rear- this is a function of the fender arches

but I agree- that does look nice
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:37 AM   #634
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Sixtoo and BIGSKY:

Thank you gentlemen!

I am VERY pleased with the set-up and cannot wait to pick her up from the alignment shop tonight! I can only imagine it's going to be a noticeable difference from what it was, which was pretty rough!

-Orion-

Last edited by TheAnser; 01-09-2008 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:28 AM   #635
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Looks nice
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:48 AM   #636
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Alright gentlemen, upon visual inspection of the car this morning it appears as though the front springs have settled ever so slightly after alignment. Visually, it gives the perfect raked stance. I will have to take new meausurements this weekend along with pictures in better light conditions.

Now that the happiness is out of the way, calm my nerves about my current "problem".

As I said, I just had an alignment done. This is the first alignment on any vehicle that I have ever had that I specified the settings. That being; they are out of the realm of the factory settings but have worked for so many on this board.

The car turns/rotates A LOT better than before the alignment, but, it is pulling like a pig to both sides (mostly to the passenger's side, seldomnly to the driver's side) and when I say pull, I mean, I am driving down a straight stretch of road, I let go of the steering wheel and it literally feels like someone sitting in the passenger seat grabbed it and yanked on it. It's an abrupt jerk, not gradual.

Is this something that is common with requested settings for an alignment, or did I just waste $95 and it should still drive straight down the road?

Also, I've noticed once the car has warmed up/been driven for a little while, the amount of pull seems to decrease?

So this has me scratching my noggin...any help/advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

-Orion-
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:28 AM   #637
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What were your alignment settings again?
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:39 AM   #638
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What were your alignment settings again?
-2 Front, -1.5 rear, toe-in at 0 all around
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:00 AM   #639
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Was your caster significantly different from side to side? Have you had someone else drive to to confirm how it feels? More aggressive alignments do tend to follow the road more and are more sensitive to grooving and the crown of the road, but the way you've described it isn't normal.

When does it happen? Immediately or shortly after taking a turn, or does it happen when you've been driving straight down the highway for 5 miles? Have you replaced your steering rack bushings?
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:47 AM   #640
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Unfortunately, I did not get a read out of what my spec's were. It was a smaller, hometown garage that I went to on the recommendation of a good friend with an STi that has had work done there before. So I cannot speak to whether the caster is different from side to side.

No one else has driven it yet. But I did notice that it does follow the road more as you stated.

Taking the turn the car feels very planted. It seems that it will do these violent pulls on straight stretches of road more than anywhere else. To test I set the car in a straight line and just let go of the wheel and 75-80% of the time it pulls HARD to the right.

And other times, on the highway, I will do the same thing and it will continue straight or pull gradually to the left (the gradual pull seems to go to the left).

Steering rack bushings have not been replaced. They are only 41,000 miles old. Is it time for replacement?

Thank you for your reponses. I may just be paranoid, but you know how it goes.

-Orion-
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Old 01-11-2008, 02:19 PM   #641
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It sounds like something is way off on the allignment... I had a shop do a very custom allignment on my (coilovers) at -2.7 front, -1.2 rear, 0 toe all the way around and about 6 degrees of caster and the car pulled straighter then ever. Maybe something was loose and slipped since you picked the car up from the shop? In any case, I'd think the shop would be willing to put the car back on the rack and double check the numbers for you and see if something is way off. Maybe they forgot to tighten an eccentric bolt somewhere... or didn't tighten it enough.

EDIT - it could also be the allignment of the steering rack itself.... when I replaced my bushings, I turned the rod coming from the steering wheel by hand (more or less by accident)... which resulted in the steering wheel not being straight anymore when the car was going straight. However, the allignment shop fixed it for me at the same time as my allignment. So, it's something to look into, if the allignment is indeed true.
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Old 01-11-2008, 02:26 PM   #642
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possible that you installed the conical spacers upside down?
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Old 01-11-2008, 02:58 PM   #643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durmiente View Post
It sounds like something is way off on the allignment... I had a shop do a very custom allignment on my (coilovers) at -2.7 front, -1.2 rear, 0 toe all the way around and about 6 degrees of caster and the car pulled straighter then ever. Maybe something was loose and slipped since you picked the car up from the shop? In any case, I'd think the shop would be willing to put the car back on the rack and double check the numbers for you and see if something is way off. Maybe they forgot to tighten an eccentric bolt somewhere... or didn't tighten it enough.

EDIT - it could also be the allignment of the steering rack itself.... when I replaced my bushings, I turned the rod coming from the steering wheel by hand (more or less by accident)... which resulted in the steering wheel not being straight anymore when the car was going straight. However, the allignment shop fixed it for me at the same time as my allignment. So, it's something to look into, if the allignment is indeed true.
Due to the fact that I specified the parameters that I wanted, their is a big glaring "NO WARRANTY" written on my reciept, so I think I would have to come out of pocket again for them to put it on the rack...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnie View Post
possible that you installed the conical spacers upside down?
EDIT: Do you mean the stock conical washer or the spacer that comes with the RCE Plates?

I am 99.9% sure they went back on properly.

Thanks for the tips!

I gotta see what I can do....

-Orion-

Last edited by TheAnser; 01-11-2008 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:24 PM   #644
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stock conical washer. If its installed inverted, the steering tends to "stick", i.e. memory steer. It may be a bit of what you are experiencing. -2 is quite a bit of neg camber compared to what you probably had before and will definitely be more susceptible to tramlining especially if you have a bit of toe out, tire type can also exaggerate the situation.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:45 PM   #645
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This is the first time I am running negative camber to this extent, that's why I came on here to see if this is something "normal" or not.

The toe-in was said to have been set to 0 all around. I am going to call the shop and see if there is anyway to get a print out of the settings. If that fails I am going to see if a friend will let me get onto his alignment rack for cheap just to have them check everything for me. Not set anything. Because if it's not set right, I may as well get my rear swaybar and possible the ALK before I shell out for another alignment lol

I am definitely noticing a fair amount of tramlining. I don't feel as though I am fighting with the wheel, I do need to apply some resistance to have the steering wheel perfectly centered.

I am going to drive it for the weekend and see if I notice anything else. If not, come Monday I'm making calls!

Any other tips or opinions are still welcome.

Thank you,

-Orion-
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:55 PM   #646
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no need to go to an alignment shop. do yourself a favor and get a tape measure and two flat shelves "leaves" and a buddy. each shelf should be about 36" long. find some flat ground. place each shelf flat up against the wheel and hold it there with your foot. have your buddy hold the other flat/flush with the wheel on the opposite side. take tape measure and measure the distance of the rear side of the shelf (between the two front wheels) and then the front side of the shelf. they should be equal. if the rear si more than the front you have toe in, if front is more you have toe out. record the measurements and subtract the smallest from largest and that is how much toe in or out you have.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:24 PM   #647
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Quote:
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no need to go to an alignment shop. do yourself a favor and get a tape measure and two flat shelves "leaves" and a buddy. each shelf should be about 36" long. find some flat ground. place each shelf flat up against the wheel and hold it there with your foot. have your buddy hold the other flat/flush with the wheel on the opposite side. take tape measure and measure the distance of the rear side of the shelf (between the two front wheels) and then the front side of the shelf. they should be equal. if the rear si more than the front you have toe in, if front is more you have toe out. record the measurements and subtract the smallest from largest and that is how much toe in or out you have.
That I can do, I will give this a shot this weekend and hopefully find out some info!

Thanks Arnie!

-Orion-
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:33 PM   #648
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Due to the fact that I specified the parameters that I wanted, their is a big glaring "NO WARRANTY" written on my reciept, so I think I would have to come out of pocket again for them to put it on the rack...
Well, you'd think they would still throw it on the rack and fix it if they didn't set it up right in the first hand... but who knows. Anyhow, try measuring the toe yourself like Arnie suggested and see what you get.

Also, in the future, try to find a shop that is eager to work on aftermarket suspension/custom allignments... that way, they will be more willing to work on fixing things if the allignments slips.
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:44 PM   #649
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Well, you'd think they would still throw it on the rack and fix it if they didn't set it up right in the first hand... but who knows. Anyhow, try measuring the toe yourself like Arnie suggested and see what you get.

Also, in the future, try to find a shop that is eager to work on aftermarket suspension/custom allignments... that way, they will be more willing to work on fixing things if the allignments slips.
If they would want a return customer, you think they would do that.

Central PA is lacking on shops interested in aftermarket suspension/custom alignments...upon some convo's today, I may have a line on a better shop for next time.

-Orion-
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:28 PM   #650
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That I can do, I will give this a shot this weekend and hopefully find out some info!

Thanks Arnie!

-Orion-
check out the alignment sticky. some use the string method, I prefer makofoto's shelf method.
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