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Old 01-11-2008, 09:08 PM   #651
CNC Scott
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I had a similar problem after an alignment, the shop did not properly tighten the my front camber bolts and my camber shifted. I am now running about 2.5 degrees neg front camber and it only has a very sublte pull to either side depending on the crown of the road.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:52 PM   #652
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^ditto. I had two cars aligned and found the stock camber bolts to be much less than 144ft-lbs or whatever they are supposed to be. I was able to tighten them with a lug-nut wrench. Needless to say, I demanded and obtained a refund.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:55 PM   #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC Scott View Post
I had a similar problem after an alignment, the shop did not properly tighten the my front camber bolts and my camber shifted. I am now running about 2.5 degrees neg front camber and it only has a very sublte pull to either side depending on the crown of the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ten80 View Post
^ditto. I had two cars aligned and found the stock camber bolts to be much less than 144ft-lbs or whatever they are supposed to be. I was able to tighten them with a lug-nut wrench. Needless to say, I demanded and obtained a refund.
This has been added to the list to check for tomorrow. Thank you gents!

-Orion-
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Old 01-12-2008, 06:12 AM   #654
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129ft-lbs per the subaru alignment manual, not 144ft-lbs
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:57 PM   #655
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Quick report: Just did the makofoto shelves method to check my front toe. The rear of the front tire is out by 3/16" when compared to the front.

According to this sticky: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1093484

I've got 3/16" of toe-in or 4.7625mm of toe-in. Which happens to be outside of Subaru's specs...

I think it's unbelievable that it is that far off when I specifically asked for 0 toe at all for corners. I don't even want to deal with the shop again, I would rather use the methods on here and tackle this issue myself. Tomorrow I am going to give it a go and see if I can't get it evened out at least better than that.

I did not check the camber bolts today, I will do that tomorrow as well.

Unbelievable....

Thanks again guys,

-Orion-
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Old 01-12-2008, 03:37 PM   #656
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might be worth reading this sticky

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=89767

cliff notes- ALWAYS get a before AND after printout- if they won't give you one, move to the next shop
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:15 PM   #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
might be worth reading this sticky

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=89767

cliff notes- ALWAYS get a before AND after printout- if they won't give you one, move to the next shop
I took this for granted. Every shop I have ever been too has given printouts. This was the first time I had to leave the car there and pick it up after work. I expected the print-out to be with my receipt. Just call it a $95 lesson learned

-Orion-
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:23 PM   #658
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THE GOOD
I've had the RCE springs on for about 12 days now (700-800 miles) and am very pleased with their handling capabilities. These things are just a joy when driving though the numerous windy roads in SoCal. Lane changes on the freeway are quite fun as well. In general, I'm very happy with one aspect of my purchase.

THE BAD
Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to be able to deal with the shock from going over some of the torn up roads in my daily commute. Just to give a little background, I'm usually driving through an industrial area when at work (lots of train tracks, pot holes, and unmaintained roads); on the beat up freeway sections (no problems here unless driving any slower than 30mph in dense traffic); or through crappy paved streets (Silverlake for locals).

SOME THOUGHTS
At times, I find myself second guessing the validity of my purchase with this spring/strut combo. Whether wondering if I should have just sprung for a set of Ohlins fixed perch struts, or perhaps a softer set of springs (STi wagon specifics), I am actually considering swapping springs to something softer for the sake of a little more comfort. Sheesh, even my stock springs seem like a good idea when thinking about the drive to work this Monday. This is a damn good performance setup (I'd even be bold enough to say better than my old Cusco Zero2 setup). Maybe I'm getting old or something.

Just to reiterate, the only qualm I have is the speed at which the rebound is when driving over any surface that is not smooth. I've tried a number of different variations with the dampening adjustments on the Konis but just can't seem to "dial in" some extra comfort on these crappy roads. Does anyone have any suggestions in addressing my issues with the rebound? Maybe a different set aftermarket struts will be able to handle these spring better? Or maybe a set of Swifts or STi wagon specific springs? TIA
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:01 PM   #659
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the Koni's have all kinds of rebound adj- I doubt it's the rebound. where you don't have adj is high speed compression- this does effect ride when going over "sharp" edged objects

there was a fellow from AU that had his Koni's re-valved to dial out some high speed compression, he was very pleased

I would think in So Cal, more than anywhere, you should be able to "test" out all kinds of combos- softer spring w/ the Koni's, a different damper w/ similar spring rates
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Old 01-13-2008, 12:20 AM   #660
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That's interesting...the car's composure is very balanced, and even comfortable, during ANY type of compression (spirited driving, daily monotonous routine drives, going around any regular corner).

My thought process was that if I increased all four corners to full firmness, in essence it would lengthen the time for the spring/strut to expand to full height. Sadly, this wasn't the case.

Side note: are we speaking the same language? Rebound = when the spring stretches. Compression = when the spring squashes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
the Koni's have all kinds of rebound adj- I doubt it's the rebound. where you don't have adj is high speed compression- this does effect ride when going over "sharp" edged objects
Sharp edge objects....does this have any correlation Koni's not being suitable for "rally" type setups? I can't directly site any exact conversation on these boards, but I remember reading about D-specs being better for those more aggressive types of compression/rebound rides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
I would think in So Cal, more than anywhere, you should be able to "test" out all kinds of combos- softer spring w/ the Koni's, a different damper w/ similar spring rates
I'd love to test out every spring/strut combo available but don't really have the monetary luxuries to follow such ventures. Thanks for the tip! I'm going to look up re-valving and high speed compression.
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Old 01-18-2008, 09:57 AM   #661
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Just order my Koni's today from Alex Performance.
I got my strut apart ready to go. I will finish painting them today at work. Now I need to order the top mounts and will be set.

Thanks Bigsky for hooking me up with Alex.

Brian
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Old 01-18-2008, 10:49 AM   #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtoo View Post
...Unfortunately, I don't think I'm going to be able to deal with the shock from going over some of the torn up roads in my daily commute. Just to give a little background, I'm usually driving through an industrial area when at work (lots of train tracks, pot holes, and unmaintained roads)...I am actually considering swapping springs to something softer for the sake of a little more comfort...I've tried a number of different variations with the dampening adjustments on the Konis but just can't seem to "dial in" some extra comfort on these crappy roads...
I've been running the Koni/Prodrive combo on Houston's nasty streets for some time now, and even with the much softer Prodrive springs the response with the Koni's over quick transients remained "sharp".

I thought long and hard about the Ohlin's fixed perch struts, but found that going from the 27 lb. RE070's to the 23 lb. PS2's greatly improved the ride around town. More recently, I switched to the 19 lb. 215/45x17 SC3's and found another huge increase in ride comfort on city streets. The strut-suspended Impreza really responds well to any decrease in unsprung weight when it comes to ride characteristics. While I can easily feel the benefit of the incredible sidewall stiffness of the RE070's when it comes to steering response, day-to-day driving is much more enjoyable with the Continentals.

If I was a racer, I'd have kept the RE070's and added a second set of '04 STI BBS alloys for the track. For the best street/performance compromise, I was tempted to pick up a set of 17x8.5 Volks and run the PS2's in 235/40x17 (21 lbs.) after rolling the fenders. I also gave serious thought to the 11 lb. 16x7.5 SSR's combined with the 19 lb. 215/40x16 GSD3's for the ultimate in unsprung weight and gearing advantage, but with over 80k on my wagon I think I'll just stick with what I have.

Maybe you could borrow a set of lightweight wheels and tires from a fellow WRX owner and see how that works before investing in revalving the Koni's.
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Old 01-18-2008, 11:24 AM   #663
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Quick Report on my pulling problem:

I'm getting some BAD memory steer. Upon further diagnosis last night, Dave, Ryan and myself feel that the stock conical washer is getting caught up on the upper spring perch.

We lubed them up best as we could as well as the ball bearing/joint on the RCE plates. To get everything proper I think we will need to take off the front two assemblies and take them apart, clean and lube everything and put them back together.

How much of a difference will the steering rack bushings make? It's only $30, but I'm wondering if they are going to make that noticeable of a difference.

We also noticed that the upper spring perch shifts when we put the assembly back on the car. When we have it out, we line the upper perch up with the lower clevis tabs, the two outer holes of the spring perch that form the triangle look down directly at the clevis tabs, when we install it on the car the upper spring perch turns about an inch towards the firewall? Anyone have any idea why this may be, or if this is causing any of the memory steer?
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Old 01-18-2008, 11:32 AM   #664
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check orientation of the domed washer-if it got put in upside down and can cause problems (I even once installed UNDER the upper perch one time!!!!!!)

if that isn't it insure the bearing in the plate is rotating properly, once in awhile they come very stiff and need to be worked loose a little
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Old 01-18-2008, 05:35 PM   #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
check orientation of the domed washer-if it got put in upside down and can cause problems (I even once installed UNDER the upper perch one time!!!!!!)

if that isn't it insure the bearing in the plate is rotating properly, once in awhile they come very stiff and need to be worked loose a little

Orientation of the washer will be one of the first things we check, I am 99% sure we put them on right, but their is that 1%.....

The bearings do seem QUITE stiff, we worked with the one last night, but it seems to no avail today as on my commute to and from work I was still getting some heavy memory steer...

I'm very happy with the set-up...I just wish I could get this all straightened out....Pun clearly intended lol
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Old 01-18-2008, 06:55 PM   #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripvw View Post
I've been running the Koni/Prodrive combo on Houston's nasty streets for some time now, and even with the much softer Prodrive springs the response with the Koni's over quick transients remained "sharp".

I thought long and hard about the Ohlin's fixed perch struts, but found that going from the 27 lb. RE070's to the 23 lb. PS2's greatly improved the ride around town. More recently, I switched to the 19 lb. 215/45x17 SC3's and found another huge increase in ride comfort on city streets. The strut-suspended Impreza really responds well to any decrease in unsprung weight when it comes to ride characteristics. While I can easily feel the benefit of the incredible sidewall stiffness of the RE070's when it comes to steering response, day-to-day driving is much more enjoyable with the Continentals.

If I was a racer, I'd have kept the RE070's and added a second set of '04 STI BBS alloys for the track. For the best street/performance compromise, I was tempted to pick up a set of 17x8.5 Volks and run the PS2's in 235/40x17 (21 lbs.) after rolling the fenders. I also gave serious thought to the 11 lb. 16x7.5 SSR's combined with the 19 lb. 215/40x16 GSD3's for the ultimate in unsprung weight and gearing advantage, but with over 80k on my wagon I think I'll just stick with what I have.

Maybe you could borrow a set of lightweight wheels and tires from a fellow WRX owner and see how that works before investing in revalving the Koni's.

This is an excellent and well thought out response; thank you for the time you've taken to share your insights.

I guess one variable that I hadn't taken into account would be tires. The constant reminder of the bulging sidewalls of 235mm wide Pzero Nero M+S's over my stockers "seems" like I'd have a very compliant wheel filled with sidewall compression. I had always thought that a lighter wheel would be more of a detriment to the comfort of a typical daily drive car; I'm definitely going to focus my efforts on shoes once I get the suspension setup. Sadly, I've been searching for some 04 BBS's for the past 4 years and never seem to be able to acquire a set.

As for a fix to my dilemma, I decided to opt for another spring since revalving isn't something that I feel will be cost beneficial to what I'm trying to achieve...the same goes with sticking with Konis since trading up to some Ohlins will be expensive...I'd rather use the extra money on swaybars or bracing. Thanks again for sharing your experiences,

tony
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Old 01-29-2008, 01:16 PM   #667
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Verdict from last night:

Last night, two of my Subaru Brethren came over and the 3 of us tackled the front suspension. Completely took off the front two assemblies and disassembled them. Upon disassembly we noted that where the conical washer and the upper spring perch met was VERY rusty on the passenger side and slightly rusty on the driver's side. Plenty of surface for them to grab onto each other and bind.

We took the conical washer and the upper spring perch for a visit to the bench grinder...got them nice and clean.

We then reassembled using a TON of Lithium Grease..every mounting surface where metal met metal got a big ole coating of the slippery stuff.

First impressions: 90% of the "noises" from the front assemblies are GONE, memory steer has been reduced dramatically (80-99%)

Will get scheduled for my free front alignment fix later this week or beginning of next and hope to see it track even straighter!

Overall.....great results from ~1.5 hours of work Grease is my new best buddy! I love the stance and the ride that the RCE Springs coupled with their Front Lowering Plates provide. I am very interested in mating up some swaybars to see if I notice a decrease in the body roll that is still there (not nearly as much as stock, but their is still some there.)

Upon reading the post above mine; I cannot WAIT to get my 16" slips with Hankook RS-2's.....roughly 37lbs per corner. I'm guesstimating that my stock wheels with Dunlop winter tires are coming in around 40-45 right now...hope to have a noticeable difference due to the loss of unsprung weight.

Last edited by TheAnser; 01-29-2008 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 02-03-2008, 02:19 PM   #668
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Alright gentlemen...the 1400 miles on the set-up update...WITH PICS!

I am to the point that I feel the springs are fully settled. I am still sorting out the memory steer issues. As I said in my last post, we were able to dial a good deal out with the addition of grease to all contact points, the memory steer is still there on a smaller scale. Some of the pops/other noises have begun to resurface.

When we took everything apart we noticed that the front isolators were a bit worn (worn through at some points) so I will be purchasing new isolators along with Steering Rack bushings for the suspension to be put on relatively soon. No real time line for this yet.

I have yet to get the front re-aligned and hope to get the new isolators and steering rack bushings on before that, but I may wait until it gets warmer to tackle this job. At that point; I may just buy all new hardware (aside from strut housings and Koni's) to put everything back together.

Onto the pics:

1. Pre-Suspension


2. After Suspension - Yes the car is dirty



I also wanted to ask if anyone/everyone else was able to utilize the rear isolators when they put everything back together? We couldn't get it to fit on the springs so I am not using the rear isolator at this point. I would like to utilize it and bring the rear up that much more.

Thanks guys!

-Orion-
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:05 PM   #669
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nice photo skills

the 04+ rears don't use a "isolator" in the rear- the rear top simply sits in the spring (there is a lower rubber isolator however in the rear)

definitely get the struts assembled the way you want before an alignment- it will require an alignment when everything is removed/re-installed
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Old 02-03-2008, 10:33 PM   #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
nice photo skills
Thanks man, I usually HATE shooting in direct sunlight, but the contrast in the wheel well really showed the height of the car well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
the 04+ rears don't use a "isolator" in the rear- the rear top simply sits in the spring (there is a lower rubber isolator however in the rear)
The isolator that was on the rear was from my donor struts (03 wagon) but I am getting a fair amount of clunk back there (I have the TiC spacers) so I was thinking it may have been the isolator that we left out, I will check them again, but I was pretty sure we tried the isolator on both the top and bottom of the RCE spring and it didn't fit. (about 60% sure of that)

The other option is, I buy the Clunk Killer Kit from TiC and see if that solves the problem....?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKYWRX View Post
definitely get the struts assembled the way you want before an alignment- it will require an alignment when everything is removed/re-installed
Yes, it's a slight pain to drive it how it is, but I want it all straightened out before I get the alignment done.

Thanks again for the insight/help!
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:01 PM   #671
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the RCE springs are 04+ springs, which means you have 04+ tops- no isolator used in the rear (except the lower ones)- don't try and use the upper isolators

if you don't have the lower ones that could be the problem- they are shaped just like the lower spring perch- just line up the spot for the "pigtail"- insure the "pigtail" on the spring is fully snugged up in the lower perch
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:22 AM   #672
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I will check to make sure we put the bottom isolator in, I'm thinking we didn't but it's been so long since I looked at the rears that I just don't remember.

This has definitely become quite the learning experience for me. My last car I just bought coilovers and slapped them in and drove the the alignment shop. So far, even though it has provided some headaches, this has been more fun and I'm getting pretty good at taking the suspension of this car on/off and apart.

As my buddy Dave says, "The more you work on this car, the more you realize it was MEANT to be taken apart." lol
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:51 PM   #673
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very true

nice quote from Mike Sheilds SPD

"As any mechanic will tell you, there is not a bad wrench position on the entire car. It has to rate as one of the all time easiest modern cars to work on. Nothing on or about the car is an accident. It is a totally engineered package. It may have only 56/44 weight distribution, but the engineers figured that they could get away with it. It may only have McPherson strut front and modified Chapman strut rear suspension, but it is a rally car that needs the inherent strength and long wheel travel this design presents. Eight inches of rear suspension travel? You have to be kidding. GM only gave the Camero four inches of rear wheel travel! Kind of frumpy looking overhangs? No, not really, just a 99 inch wheel base that turns on a dime. They shoved the wheels as close together as they could and still have a fair back seat! It is pure sports car. "
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:24 PM   #674
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Thanks for quoting Mike Shields, Mike. I still feel that anyone buying an Impreza should be forced to read the entire SPD site before doing a single thing to their cars. Sure things and tastes have moved on but there is so much great inherent info on there that it is a MUST READ.

http://www.spdusa.com/

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Old 02-04-2008, 10:54 PM   #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnser View Post
The isolator that was on the rear was from my donor struts (03 wagon) but I am getting a fair amount of clunk back there (I have the TiC spacers) so I was thinking it may have been the isolator that we left out, I will check them again, but I was pretty sure we tried the isolator on both the top and bottom of the RCE spring and it didn't fit. (about 60% sure of that)
Why are you using the TiC spacers?
do you not have the 04+ spec koni inserts? the TiC spacers are for peeps using 02/03 style rear struts on the 04+ rear hats...
I am not using isolaters and have no clunks.
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