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Old 03-13-2005, 08:30 AM   #1
Suberman
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Default STI engine swap or turbo upgrade kit??

what do u think is more worthwhile for a wrx??

considering, performance/reliability/cost

standard EJ20, VF34, STI pinks, fuel pump, F Con SZ (that'll get me to about 320??)

JDM Ver7-8 STI engine swap, standard JDM ECU

over here in my country, the VF34 turbo etc etc comes to about $5k++

a standard JDM engine with ECU harness goes for $7k++.....

also, the guy told me that the dashboard needs to be removed for the STI engine swap??
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Old 03-13-2005, 09:49 AM   #2
railguy
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definitly the sti engine, much strong, more reliable since its a stock engine. And will prolly put out more power then the vf34 any day of the week.....Where is captcrunch?
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Old 03-13-2005, 11:23 AM   #3
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I have done a fair amount of work to my car to make 242whp on a stock turbo and no other poweradders and if I were to go further, I would part the car out and go with the JDM V7/8 swap. It is the only way to go imo due to the pure fact that those motors are beasts when it comes to reliability and power. For the price you really can not complain either. There are tons of guys who have done the whole turbo and fuel system upgrade on a WRX and they do not even have tuned 300whp. Now that is where the tuning comes into play as well. If I were to go with an AP I would not see anywhere near my power range now. I had it dyno tuned for my speciic vehicle and that is where you can make some modest power, in the tuning. To me the few extra grand for a new turbo, fuel system, IC, and further tuning can be spent elsewhere. Not worth it to me to go further at this point. That is what you have to decide, what it good for you and your needs/budget. I say motor swap all the way. If I had the cash I would have already done a complete V7 swap. good luck
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Old 03-13-2005, 11:34 AM   #4
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Here ya go. This guy only wants 4500 for his entire engine and 6sp tranny setup. The car is actually an 04, he just put 03 on accident. Only has 27,000 miles. Check it out............... Ryan

http://www.wrxfanatics.com/index.php?showtopic=26696
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Old 03-14-2005, 09:32 AM   #5
Suberman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railguy
definitly the sti engine, much strong, more reliable since its a stock engine. And will prolly put out more power then the vf34 any day of the week.....Where is captcrunch?
JDM sti engines puts out "claimed" 280ps and 300lb/ft so that should be bout 220+WHP??

with a VF34, fuel system, and management + tuning.....shouldn't i get more than 320ps from the standard EJ20??

i'm after about 240-250 WHP....with maybe 240-250 WTQ..

yeah, i know the STI swap is prolly more reliable....but cost is definitely a factor here.....

does the dashboard need to come off with the swap??
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Old 03-14-2005, 04:48 PM   #6
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If that is the power output you are looking for, then just do what I have done or similar.
Buy: Used catless Vishnu UP, Helix DP & CEL fix, Bosal Catless twin tip exaust, USDM STI IC, ECUteck tuned by Shiv/Vishnu, new air filter, new fuel filter, silencer delete. That is all it took on my car to acheive 242whp/tq out of my car @about 16.5psi on the stock turbo on a DynoJet AWD Dyno. Over 5k miles and no issues or check engine lights.
I have less than $3K into my entire car and far less into the above mods. I thought you were looking for 320whp. I guess you meant flywheel. Just shop around for parts and find a great tuner.
As far as the dash goes, I have no clue. I have never researched what all is involved for the swap.
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Old 03-14-2005, 06:43 PM   #7
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1CLNWRX have you gotten any times with your setup?
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Old 03-14-2005, 09:40 PM   #8
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You know this type of question is so hard to answer. You will get all kinds of opinions. Here is the bottom line. you have to decide what you want. For real. Not short term, long term with the carr. Then decide what you have to do to get there.

You also have to realize the more strain you put on the engine... well, the more strain you put on the engine. You may be one of the guys who's number comes up. Engine problems like blow by etc... If it does can you afford it. Look at the short term cost and the long term cost. The potential long term cost. The plan of cross your fingers and hope is not a very good plan. More than one guy out here has popped a motor with VF34's.

For example, if you say you want 400whp, do you mean for 5,000 miles or for 50,000 miles. Those are really big independat variables that affect the dependant variable of the motor life.

In reality if peoples plans are at max an IHI type of set up, I would just stay with the EJ205. It is not great but it is certianly capable of delivering that. Odds are someones motor is still going to die though.

A really good option is the JDM WRX motor that can be had for a pittanvce and you get AVCS. You can probably sell your USDM and come out even. If you want the car to feel faster, then look into gears or gear box. Easily the most un tapped source of power out here. JDM WRX motor with RA gears and a VF34 is no joke. That is a serious ride and is most affordable.

I am in favor of JDM where ever possible but it makes sense in some cases and does not make sense in other cases. There is no such thing as a best mod by itself. It is in contect of the entire car. Best way to be unhappy with your car after tons of mods is to go from mod to mod with no real plan or target.

Is a JDM motor better? Of course. Does it makese sense for everybody? Of course not. Decide what you want and then go from there.

In US models 02 and newer, the dash board does not need to come out. For older pre 02 or GC8 models, you need to run a new wiring harness.

Good luck man!
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Old 03-14-2005, 09:44 PM   #9
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No I have not. If I had to guess, with a good 60' I should be mid-low 13s. Bench racing is not my thing though so I really have no clue what it would run. I just need to get to a track and do it. I have not "raced" any cars on the street since I had it tuned so I do not have any comparisons that way either. I have though pulled on an EVO that was behind me at a stop light and I pulled really hard on another WRX from my area that was on my ass also. Doesn't mean much so yeah, I would have to go to a track for sure. It is fun to drive and more than enough for me right now as a daily driver.
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Old 03-15-2005, 08:41 AM   #10
Suberman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebeck
You know this type of question is so hard to answer. You will get all kinds of opinions. Here is the bottom line. you have to decide what you want. For real. Not short term, long term with the carr. Then decide what you have to do to get there.

You also have to realize the more strain you put on the engine... well, the more strain you put on the engine. You may be one of the guys who's number comes up. Engine problems like blow by etc... If it does can you afford it. Look at the short term cost and the long term cost. The potential long term cost. The plan of cross your fingers and hope is not a very good plan. More than one guy out here has popped a motor with VF34's.

For example, if you say you want 400whp, do you mean for 5,000 miles or for 50,000 miles. Those are really big independat variables that affect the dependant variable of the motor life.

In reality if peoples plans are at max an IHI type of set up, I would just stay with the EJ205. It is not great but it is certianly capable of delivering that. Odds are someones motor is still going to die though.

A really good option is the JDM WRX motor that can be had for a pittanvce and you get AVCS. You can probably sell your USDM and come out even. If you want the car to feel faster, then look into gears or gear box. Easily the most un tapped source of power out here. JDM WRX motor with RA gears and a VF34 is no joke. That is a serious ride and is most affordable.

I am in favor of JDM where ever possible but it makes sense in some cases and does not make sense in other cases. There is no such thing as a best mod by itself. It is in contect of the entire car. Best way to be unhappy with your car after tons of mods is to go from mod to mod with no real plan or target.

Is a JDM motor better? Of course. Does it makese sense for everybody? Of course not. Decide what you want and then go from there.

In US models 02 and newer, the dash board does not need to come out. For older pre 02 or GC8 models, you need to run a new wiring harness.

Good luck man!
thanks for your advice ebeck!!

yeah, i definitely need a reliable motor....but i'm not after huge HP either. something in the region of 240-250 WHP (330-350 flywheel) and 240-250 WTQ. Those guys with a blown wrx motor with vf34s, what kinda power are they pushing?? I hope i won't be a statistic with about 250WHP??

would the stock wrx motor hold up well up to 350 crank hp?? what about the VF34 or maybe VF23, can it cope with 350 crank reliably??

yeah, the wrx that i might be getting already has the Ver6 RA gearset!!

other than a different turbo, avcs and higher lift cams, the jdm motor is the same as any other wrx motor??
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Old 03-15-2005, 08:58 AM   #11
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JDM sti motors are all underrated. General consensus is that JDM sti motors are ~260 whp where the USDM sti motors are ~250.

If you get a tuned vf30 or vf22 you will be slightly faster than a stock JDM motor, but then again, tuning a JDM motor will give you really large gains.

I always say get the JDM motor, because it's the one thing I think shouldn't be done half assed. But, if your power goals are only 250 whp, get the vf30. If you don't drive your car like a maniac, the WRX motor can handle it. It's when you start throwing on larger turbos that the stock WRX blocks reliability becomes and issue. If you get a good tune, you should have nothing to worry about. Are you sure that a vf30-34 costs so much? A lot of people here can do it for a lot cheaper.

It depends if you think you're gonna get used to the power. If you in a year or so you want more than 250 whp, then you should get the JDM sti motor, because it will be much more reliable and worth the additional expense. If you know you will love the vf30-34 till the ends of time, do that. Either way, get a good tune.
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Old 03-15-2005, 10:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Crunch
It's when you start throwing on larger turbos that the stock WRX blocks reliability becomes and issue.

then you should get the JDM sti motor, because it will be much more reliable and worth the additional expense.
30 thousand miles with a stage 4 WRX here, mild abuse i.e. autox's, 6 or so times down the track, some street abuse and just recently lost compression in number 1 due to some failed rings and a few bearing about to come loose. So, yes you can make those power numbers you're looking for but I'm telling you it’s going to shorten your engine life considerably. The problem is, power is addictive and you're going to enjoy driving that power and abuse it regularly! Why else would you mod it?
So my advice would be, if your going to mod to that kind of power levels just go ahead and at least get the Ver7 shortblock for its added strength, you can't build a good house without a strong foundation. Besides, I've found a few that go for around 1100-1300 and with that comes some all day reliability.
Tuning is key but if you try damn near doubling your horsepower, I don't care what the tune, the USDM WRX engine is not engineered to handle that kind of pressure.
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Old 03-15-2005, 11:21 AM   #13
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built engine and turbo upgrade
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Old 03-16-2005, 03:17 AM   #14
Suberman
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i'm from singapore. over here....a VF34 with injectors, fuel pump and a aftermarket ECU with tune comes to about $5k++

i guess i'll eventually get use to the 250whp.....but then hopefully i'll save enough for a real jdm spec c

how much power can a vf30-34 reliably support up to??

also, anymore difference in a jdm wrx motor?? avcs, turbo, cams....
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:16 AM   #15
Suberman
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how much power can a VF34 support up to?? 250 WHP?? i get 98 gas over here.

also, if i run standard boost, what kinda power gains can i expect from the VF34 with supporting mods (fuel, management, exhaust)??
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:55 AM   #16
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how much power can a VF34 support up to?? 250 WHP?? i get 98 gas over here.

also, if i run standard boost, what kinda power gains can i expect from the VF34 with supporting mods (fuel, management, exhaust)??

also a JDM EJ205 has different cams, head and valvetrain?? anything else?? different pistons?? also, with a highish 9.0:1 CR, what kinda boost can i safely run to?? with 98 octane gas.
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