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Old 07-26-2019, 10:51 AM   #1176
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Ramping the Model Y and the Gigafactory cost a lot of money

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Yeah I rather wait until Tesla releases the non highway autopilot capability
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:01 AM   #1177
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Originally Posted by BeepBoop View Post
Be careful with that


How they get away with providing such a primitive system on a vehicle used on public roads just blows my mind. That level of driving is equivalent to someone texting... illegal. But somehow a company with billions of dollars of revenue can do it. People can die, and they still keep doing it.

I'll be honest when I say that when I see a Tesla on the road, I get the **** away from them and put more distance between myself and their car then I do a normal attentive driver. I treat them like a distracted driver who is texting, putting on makeup, talking on the phone, etc. I avoid being near them more than I avoid being stuck behind giant pickup trucks.
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:16 AM   #1178
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
People thinking Elon is the god almighty for Tesla need to get a grip on reality.
Probably has more to do with the fact that, if the space cadet isn't leading tesla, those people lose a huge chunk of their hipster aesthetic that they paid good money for. Hard to say you're a rebel paving the way to the future on the back of a visionary when the company becomes a normal company that doesn't just run on hopes and dreams.
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Old 07-26-2019, 03:41 PM   #1179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post


How they get away with providing such a primitive system on a vehicle used on public roads just blows my mind. That level of driving is equivalent to someone texting... illegal. But somehow a company with billions of dollars of revenue can do it. People can die, and they still keep doing it.

I'll be honest when I say that when I see a Tesla on the road, I get the **** away from them and put more distance between myself and their car then I do a normal attentive driver. I treat them like a distracted driver who is texting, putting on makeup, talking on the phone, etc. I avoid being near them more than I avoid being stuck behind giant pickup trucks.
Reading the description it looks like the driver took over from Autopilot right before the last turn because it thought the car was going to fast. It was the manual driver who drove off the road, over corrected and wrecked.
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Old 07-26-2019, 04:10 PM   #1180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
Reading the description it looks like the driver took over from Autopilot right before the last turn because it thought the car was going to fast. It was the manual driver who drove off the road, over corrected and wrecked.
Not how I read that... sounded like auto pilot was driving off the cliff and the driver over-corrected into the bank on the other side of the road...

obviously that driver shouldn't have been using auto pilot, but why do people trust this crap anywhere if it can't handle a few basic bends in the road like this...
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Old 07-26-2019, 04:56 PM   #1181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
Not how I read that... sounded like auto pilot was driving off the cliff and the driver over-corrected into the bank on the other side of the road...

obviously that driver shouldn't have been using auto pilot, but why do people trust this crap anywhere if it can't handle a few basic bends in the road like this...
It handled all the previous bends just fine though

Without knowing the exact sequence of what autopilot was doing, and what the driver was doing, this could be argued almost indefinitely
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:37 PM   #1182
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Originally Posted by hooziewhatsit View Post
It handled all the previous bends just fine though

Without knowing the exact sequence of what autopilot was doing, and what the driver was doing, this could be argued almost indefinitely
the driver should have turned autopilot off very early on, its clear it wasnt working well from the start.
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Old 07-26-2019, 07:03 PM   #1183
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Surprised no one has brought up the fatal pedestrian crash that happened in SF last week.

https://www.sfgate.com/local/article...d-14119888.php

CN. Person rents a Tesla on Getaround (P2P car sharing platform). Runs a red light at ~ 40mph. Get's hit by a mini cooper - hit's two pedestrians - fatally striking one. Autopilot was not on - unsure if it would have helped though.
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:23 PM   #1184
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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
Surprised no one has brought up the fatal pedestrian crash that happened in SF last week.

https://www.sfgate.com/local/article...d-14119888.php

CN. Person rents a Tesla on Getaround (P2P car sharing platform). Runs a red light at ~ 40mph. Get's hit by a mini cooper - hit's two pedestrians - fatally striking one. Autopilot was not on - unsure if it would have helped though.
Why would we bring this up? It’s a normal car crash that didn’t involve and malfunction of Tesla equipment.
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Old 07-26-2019, 10:26 PM   #1185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Why would we bring this up? It’s a normal car crash that didn’t involve and malfunction of Tesla equipment.
Replace "no one" with "you dumb ****s" and it makes more sense.
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Old 07-27-2019, 01:45 PM   #1186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post


How they get away with providing such a primitive system on a vehicle used on public roads just blows my mind. That level of driving is equivalent to someone texting... illegal. But somehow a company with billions of dollars of revenue can do it. People can die, and they still keep doing it.

I'll be honest when I say that when I see a Tesla on the road, I get the **** away from them and put more distance between myself and their car then I do a normal attentive driver. I treat them like a distracted driver who is texting, putting on makeup, talking on the phone, etc. I avoid being near them more than I avoid being stuck behind giant pickup trucks.
Meanwhile at Boeing.....
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Old 07-27-2019, 01:45 PM   #1187
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Originally Posted by E. Nick View Post
Replace "no one" with "you dumb ****s" and it makes more sense.
Ok, so why didn't you bring it up?
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:51 PM   #1188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
Meanwhile at Boeing.....
... all the 737 Max aircraft are grounded due to two crashes. How many Teslas have been taken off the road because of their 'autopilot' crashes? But I guess if the number of lives at risk is lower then nothing needs to be done about it right?
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:01 AM   #1189
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
Ok, so why didn't you bring it up?
Just too busy counting all my TSLA winnings, but don't worry, I'll be buying somethin' nice for yo momma.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:33 AM   #1190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
Meanwhile at Boeing.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
... all the 737 Max aircraft are grounded due to two crashes. How many Teslas have been taken off the road because of their 'autopilot' crashes? But I guess if the number of lives at risk is lower then nothing needs to be done about it right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Nick View Post
Just too busy counting all my TSLA winnings, but don't worry, I'll be buying somethin' nice for yo momma.
Alright children, let’s reign it in a little.
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Old 07-28-2019, 11:48 AM   #1191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
Alright children, let’s reign it in a little.
Actually my point, do people actually take yo momma... seriously? See the Idiocracy Owe my Balls analogy I made some moons back.

There are no fact-based pro-Tesla arguments, which is clearly frustrating for the people who aren't rich yet bought one, and even more frustrating for people who own the stock. Since our society is now akin to a spoiled child, the reaction to this is simply lashing out in anger at any facts presented, or at any people who tend to present facts.
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:07 PM   #1192
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James Randi defines the group quite perfectly:

“There exists in society a very special class of persons that I have always referred to as the Believers. These are folks who have chosen to accept a certain religion, philosophy, theory, idea or notion and cling to that belief regardless of any evidence that might, for anyone else, bring it into doubt. They are the ones who encourage and support the fanatics and the frauds of any given age. No amount of evidence, no matter how strong, will bring them any enlightenment. They are the sheep who beg to be fleeced and butchered, and who will battle fiercely to preserve their right to be victimized…”
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:54 PM   #1193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
... all the 737 Max aircraft are grounded due to two crashes. How many Teslas have been taken off the road because of their 'autopilot' crashes? But I guess if the number of lives at risk is lower then nothing needs to be done about it right?
how many lives have autopilot save?
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Old 07-28-2019, 01:37 PM   #1194
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
how many lives have autopilot save?
Do you have a report showing how many lives it’s saved?
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Old 07-28-2019, 02:35 PM   #1195
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july 28 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Nick View Post
James Randi defines the group quite perfectly:

“There exists in society a very special class of persons that I have always referred to as the Believers. These are folks who have chosen to accept a certain religion, philosophy, theory, idea or notion and cling to that belief regardless of any evidence that might, for anyone else, bring it into doubt. They are the ones who encourage and support the fanatics and the frauds of any given age. No amount of evidence, no matter how strong, will bring them any enlightenment. They are the sheep who beg to be fleeced and butchered, and who will battle fiercely to preserve their right to be victimized…”
47 minutes later, posted with no sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
how many lives have autopilot save?



entertainment value of Tesla thread:
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Old 07-28-2019, 03:40 PM   #1196
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While y'all are busy comparing lengths and girths, Tesla is about to die-cast the Model Y like an aluminum Hot Wheels:

Quote:
Tesla has a giant new machine to produce the Model Y frame in almost one piece


Tesla is working on several significant manufacturing improvements for the Model Y production program and it includes building a giant new casting machine to produce a big part of the Model Y frame in one single piece.
We have been reporting on how Tesla plans to simplify the design of its future vehicle platforms and achieve greater automation in the manufacturing process.

Yesterday, we reported on how Tesla is working on a revolutionary new wiring architecture to help robots build upcoming cars like the Model Y.

In an interview earlier this year, CEO Elon Musk also said that Tesla is moving to an aluminum casting design instead of a series of stamped steel and aluminum pieces for the Model Y body:

“When we get the big casting machine, it’ll go from 70 parts to 1 with a significant reduction in capital expenditure on all the robots to put those parts together.”


Now a new patent application reveals this new casting machine that Tesla plans to use to build Model Y.

The patent is for what Tesla calls a “Multi-Directional Unibody Casting Machine for a Vehicle Frame and Associated Methods.”

Tesla describes the problems that come with the die casting process in vehicle manufacturing today:

“Typically, in the context of vehicle frame manufacturing and the die casting process, multiple die casting machines are each used to cast different components of a vehicle frame. For example, a single die casting machine cell in a factory may be dedicated to casting a single frame component. These components from each casting machine are then assembled or secured together (e.g., via welding) by factory workers or robotic systems to form a vehicle frame (e.g., a unibody vehicle frame). Because die casting generally involves higher capital costs relative to other casting and manufacturing processes including assembly of many individual components (e.g., due to high costs of casting equipment and metal dies), there remains a need for an improved die casting machine and associated methods thereof, particularly as related to casting a vehicle frame to reduce work required to achieve a final assembled product.”


The system that Tesla describes in its patent application fixes this problem with several ejector die portions meeting at a central hub.

According to the patent application, it was designed by Matt Kallas, a long time “Mold Making Supervisor” at Tesla who has since left to become a casting toll designer at GF Linamar.

He described the concept in the patent application:

“In one aspect, a multi-directional casting machine for a vehicle frame configured in accordance with embodiments of the present disclosure, includes: a central hub having a cover die portion and a plurality of ejector die portions translatable relative to the cover die portion. The plurality of ejector die portions are configured to meet at the central hub. The plurality of ejector die portions includes a first ejector die portion configured to translate along a first axis between a closed position and an open position. The first ejector die portion is adjacent a first side of the cover die portion in the closed position and spaced apart from the cover die portion in the open position. A second ejector die portion is configured to translate along the first axis between a closed position and an open position. The second ejector die portion is adjacent a second side of the cover die portion opposite the first side in the closed position and spaced apart from the cover die portion in the open position. A third ejector die portion is configured to translate along a second axis extending substantially perpendicular to the first axis between a closed position and an open position. The third ejector die portion is adjacent a third side of the cover die portion in the closed position and spaced apart from the cover die portion in the open position. The plurality of ejector die portions form a mold cavity corresponding to at least a portion of a vehicle frame.”


Here are drawings from Tesla’s patent application for the giant casting machine:





(more drawings in article - CJ)


Tesla beleives that this design will “reduce build time, operation costs, costs of manufacturing, factory footprint, factory operating costs, tooling costs, and/or quantity of equipment.”

The automaker even notes that it will reduce the number of casting machines required to build a vehicle frame and that it could even build “a complete or substantially complete” frame itself.

Electrek’s Take
“Reduce build time, operation costs, costs of manufacturing, factory footprint,” those are all things that Tesla needs to do with Model Y production in order to be able to squeeze it into the Fremont factory.

It’s also likely what Tesla is planning to do for Gigafactory 3 in China and that’s why the company is anticipating a much lower need for capital expenditure at the factory in order to start production.

When taking into account the new wiring architecture we reported on yesterday, it looks like Tesla is lining up some pretty significant manufacturing improvements that could make a big difference to Tesla’s manufacturing costs when combined together.

Elon’s vision of “the machine that builds the machine” is starting to come to life.
https://electrek.co/2019/07/23/tesla...ody-one-piece/
This is pretty revolutionary stuff. Has anyone else ever die-cast a full scale car before?
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Old 07-28-2019, 04:10 PM   #1197
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They're just casting the frame in one piece. That is if they actually do it. There's a ton of reasons why this isn't how it's done now.

I can't imagine what the cost of creation and maintenance on the molds required to cast a shape like a car in one piece.
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Old 07-28-2019, 04:35 PM   #1198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaDuba420 View Post
july 28 12:07pm
47 minutes later, posted with no sarcasm



entertainment value of Tesla thread:
Glad you took note and enjoyed - he and 1 other did the same thing (but even more directly) the last time I posted something long winded about the Teslan phenomenon. Didn't even see the ironicalness of it all, which could be gratifying for the argument, but definitely sad for the state of our edumacation (+collidge?) system and society at large.
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Old 07-28-2019, 04:57 PM   #1199
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They're just casting the frame in one piece. That is if they actually do it. There's a ton of reasons why this isn't how it's done now.
A lot of those reasons are already in relation to repairability... something aluminum Teslas are already considered terrible at. Why not go all out? I'm sure Tesla has good reasons (on paper) for doing this. Whether or not it will still be a good idea in 10 years is going to be interesting to see.


Quote:
I can't imagine what the cost of creation and maintenance on the molds required to cast a shape like a car in one piece.
Considering the size of and maintenance needed for of all the stamping equipment needed to make traditional body panels, incorporating them into a giant die caster and skipping a whole line of assembly steps seems kinda genius.
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:24 PM   #1200
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
A lot of those reasons are already in relation to repairability... something aluminum Teslas are already considered terrible at. Why not go all out? I'm sure Tesla has good reasons (on paper) for doing this. Whether or not it will still be a good idea in 10 years is going to be interesting to see.



Considering the size of and maintenance needed for of all the stamping equipment needed to make traditional body panels, incorporating them into a giant die caster and skipping a whole line of assembly steps seems kinda genius.
Specially welding which is the longest step. I believe Elon talked about the part they are replacing with the casted one he said that it is made of something like 50 welded sheetmetal pieces.

In other EV news

Quote:
.Hyundai Kona Electric Explodes, Blows Hole In Garage: Cause Unknown
https://insideevs.com/news/362202/hy...plodes-canada/
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