'96 brighton open class rally car - EJ20G - looking for turbo recommendations

Scooby921 · 03-24-2008, 02:09 PM

I'm not sure where else to put this as there isn't a turbo-specific forum. You guys have built many a motor and deal with sizing and matching components appropriately. I'm looking for a little help selecting a new turbo for an EJ20G motor.

Background:
I'm in the middle of helping a friend build a rally car for Rally America and NASA. The rules require we have a restrictor (34mm) in the intake, pretty much in the turbo inlet. The way they are written we can't use the stock turbo off the EJ20G since it is the old style with the inlet that turns up 90 degrees. That wouldn't allow us to put the restrictor in the right place. Due to some budget constraints and the layout of wiring and hoses on the older motor I think we have to move to a rotate mount setup for simplicity.

Can you guys / gals recommend a decent rotated mount turbo setup that will work well with a stock EJ20G? Quicker spooling is much preferred over peak power. For now we're using the stock JDM ecu, so I think things like launch control and anti-lag are unavailable. The car should weigh in under 3000 lbs so it doesn't need a ton of power to get it moving.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

MRX WRX · 03-25-2008, 01:23 AM

what are the motor specs? this makes a huge difference...ie cams, portwork RPM's, type of fuel what tranny antilag etc etc

Scooby921 · 03-25-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRX WRX

what are the motor specs? this makes a huge difference...ie cams, portwork RPM's, type of fuel what tranny antilag etc etc

I'm not sure what the exact specs are. I know its bone stock and will stay that way for now. Fuel will be 93 octane unleaded pump gas as is required by the rules. There won't be any antilag, at least not for the first year or two. Tranny is the stock JDM 5-spd.

I can't seem to find any data about the cams. The motor is out of a v4 JDM WRX if that helps at all. Stock turbo is a TD05H-16G (small) pushing 12psi.

kingsubi · 03-25-2008, 09:31 PM

You may want to search in the old school pre-02 turbo area. A version 4 is not a ej20g but a ej20k. Is it coil on plug? If it isn't (has spark plug wires) than it is not an ej20g.

In addition, the ej20k has lately being blowing bearings both here and in the UK (I assume in Japan too but they don't have as many boards like this). You may want to think of a rebuild or at least a tear down and inspection with new bearings. What class are you running in? I thought all cars had to come with that motor stock in the US or they are open class?

Scooby921 · 03-26-2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsubi

You may want to search in the old school pre-02 turbo area. A version 4 is not a ej20g but a ej20k. Is it coil on plug? If it isn't (has spark plug wires) than it is not an ej20g.

In addition, the ej20k has lately being blowing bearings both here and in the UK (I assume in Japan too but they don't have as many boards like this). You may want to think of a rebuild or at least a tear down and inspection with new bearings. What class are you running in? I thought all cars had to come with that motor stock in the US or they are open class?

Thanks for the info. I suppose I was wrong about what it came out of then. The friend who owns the car / bought the motor told me that's what car it came out of. In any case, the number on the block casting is EJ20G, not to mention it does have coil on plug.

It will be an open class car. I doubt that it'll be competitive, but hopefully it'll be fun.

keirnna · 03-26-2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsubi

You may want to search in the old school pre-02 turbo area. A version 4 is not a ej20g but a ej20k. Is it coil on plug? If it isn't (has spark plug wires) than it is not an ej20g.

In addition, the ej20k has lately being blowing bearings both here and in the UK (I assume in Japan too but they don't have as many boards like this). You may want to think of a rebuild or at least a tear down and inspection with new bearings. What class are you running in? I thought all cars had to come with that motor stock in the US or they are open class?

There is a EJ20G that has plug wires. It is the SF5 Forester EJ20G. For all intents and purposes it is a 20K, but Subaru has it labeled a 20G for some unknown reason.

Everyone I know in Japan has blown a 20K that has run one. Why can't you use that restrictor with the 20G's 90* inlet?

555ideways · 03-26-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooby921

The rules require we have a restrictor (34mm) in the intake

This is huge. Very few of us in here run restrictors. Be careful who you take advice from. I'd go straight to a rally shop for real world advice.

-Paddy

Scooby921 · 03-27-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keirnna

Why can't you use that restrictor with the 20G's 90* inlet?

It has to be within a certain distance of and perpendicular to the vanes of the compressor. It basically has to mount IN the compressor inlet on any of the none elbow'd turbos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555ideways

This is huge. Very few of us in here run restrictors. Be careful who you take advice from. I'd go straight to a rally shop for real world advice.

-Paddy

We've been talking to a couple of rally teams / shops, but most of them are smart enough to use a newer motor and can drop in just about any bolt-on. Due to a budget we're stuck with this motor for awhile. Its one of those things were we are doing whatever modifications we feel like and just going to run the class it fits in (open).

I believe SRT uses a Garrett GT32 twin scroll (Crawford's CP-32 kit). I've seen a couple other teams running a bolt-on twin scroll with a JDM V7 or V8 motor. I guess I'll go research older WRC cars and see what turbos they've used.

keirnna · 03-27-2008, 10:43 AM

There are several ways to make a later model turbo work. I would say run a custom metal inlet pipe straight under the manifold. It is very common in Japan.

WRX34 · 03-28-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keirnna

There are several ways to make a later model turbo work. I would say run a custom metal inlet pipe straight under the manifold. It is very common in Japan.

Thanks...that's where it looks like we're going with the car. I didn't want to have to tear down the engine (which is an EJ20G) but we might as well do the fuel rails (reroute w/ equal length SS) and clean up the manifold while we have the top of it apart. Time for a weekend project!

If anyone has any more info on restrictors or where to get one for this project please feel free!

WRX34

keirnna · 03-28-2008, 07:25 PM

I really wouldn't worry about the fuel rails.

shvrdavid · 03-29-2008, 12:25 PM

One thing that you need to keep in mind is the function of the restrictor, and where it has to be put...

I know that sounds strange, but hear me out...

Most classes require a restrictor before the turbo...

Now, think what that does to the compressor map....

If you are going to run, say 1 bar of boost, normally you would be looking at the 2:1 part of the compressor map...
With the restrictor in the intake tube, the map will be at 2:1 on the left side of the map, and close to 3:1 on the right side of the map...
The restrictor will pull a vacuum infront of the compressor wheel, causing the change in ratio across the map...

I would also check the rules on where, and if, you can recirculate air to... (BOV)...

Keep that in mind when choosing your turbo....

GodSquadMandrake · 01-26-2009, 03:37 PM

bump.
Anybody have an idea what a good turbo for the EJ20G with a 34mm restrictor combo is?

mannslayer · 01-26-2009, 04:43 PM

any vf series turbo will work well for your application. i am talking about a vf30, 34, 39, etc. will you be running anti-lag on the car as well? if so, i'd go out and buy 5 turbos to start.

mxpunk · 01-26-2009, 06:36 PM

i would ditch it and get a usdm motor. more tuning options, more reliable, easier to find parts for

which is crucial when you're racing.

GodSquadMandrake · 01-27-2009, 07:36 AM

No I won't be running anti-lag. The car is basically a $5,000 car so it's built with mostly OEM off the shelf type of stuff. USDM EJ22 block, JDM EJ20G heads, PP6, EVOIII 16G turbo. I chose the 16G because it seems to be a popular choice but if there was a more ideal turbo for the job I can always change it.

Yeah I thought the JDM EJ20G heads were a good choice to go with my stock EJ22 block on the Legacy, but I was wrong. It's really hard to get parts for and probably more expensive in the end because of that. If these heads go, I think I am going to try and do something USDM so that I can go down to the dealership to get gaskets and tune-up parts that I need.

GodSquadMandrake · 01-27-2009, 07:36 AM

No I won't be running anti-lag. The car is basically a $5,000 car so it's built with mostly OEM off the shelf type of stuff. USDM EJ22 block, JDM EJ20G heads, PP6, EVOIII 16G turbo. I chose the 16G because it seems to be a popular choice but if there was a more ideal turbo for the job I can always change it.

Yeah I thought the JDM EJ20G heads were a good choice to go with my stock EJ22 block on the Legacy, but I was wrong. It's really hard to get parts for and probably more expensive in the end because of that. If these heads go, I think I am going to try and do something USDM so that I can go down to the dealership to get gaskets and tune-up parts that I need.

DSM_Outback · 01-27-2009, 02:40 PM

http://franzdiebold.com/

Specializes in restricted turbo setups.

BTW: We have a saying here in CO...Red Wings suck.

mxpunk · 01-27-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake

No I won't be running anti-lag. The car is basically a $5,000 car so it's built with mostly OEM off the shelf type of stuff. USDM EJ22 block, JDM EJ20G heads, PP6, EVOIII 16G turbo. I chose the 16G because it seems to be a popular choice but if there was a more ideal turbo for the job I can always change it.

Yeah I thought the JDM EJ20G heads were a good choice to go with my stock EJ22 block on the Legacy, but I was wrong. It's really hard to get parts for and probably more expensive in the end because of that. If these heads go, I think I am going to try and do something USDM so that I can go down to the dealership to get gaskets and tune-up parts that I need.

if you need parts for ej20g/k/h heads you can mix-n-match stuff from the 96 dohc ej25d heads and or 97-99 ej25d stuff.

you can get an ej205 swap for sub $2500 prices these days and you have an unlimited amonut of tuning options in comparison to any phase 1 jdm motor

unless you go standalone..

BHawk · 01-30-2009, 07:55 PM

VF22 used to be the WRC turbo for version S5 '98 and '99 (yes that was on a 34mm restrictor)

03-24-2008, 02:09 PM	#1
Scooby921 Merci Buckets Moderator Member#: 88606 Join Date: Jun 2005 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Michigan Vehicle: 2018 Grand Cherokee Velvet Red Pearl	'96 brighton open class rally car - EJ20G - looking for turbo recommendations I'm not sure where else to put this as there isn't a turbo-specific forum. You guys have built many a motor and deal with sizing and matching components appropriately. I'm looking for a little help selecting a new turbo for an EJ20G motor. Background: I'm in the middle of helping a friend build a rally car for Rally America and NASA. The rules require we have a restrictor (34mm) in the intake, pretty much in the turbo inlet. The way they are written we can't use the stock turbo off the EJ20G since it is the old style with the inlet that turns up 90 degrees. That wouldn't allow us to put the restrictor in the right place. Due to some budget constraints and the layout of wiring and hoses on the older motor I think we have to move to a rotate mount setup for simplicity. Can you guys / gals recommend a decent rotated mount turbo setup that will work well with a stock EJ20G? Quicker spooling is much preferred over peak power. For now we're using the stock JDM ecu, so I think things like launch control and anti-lag are unavailable. The car should weigh in under 3000 lbs so it doesn't need a ton of power to get it moving. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
FS: '96 22B-righton Open Class Rally Car	AllWheelsDriven.net	NWIC Vendor Classifieds	22	08-31-2018 05:22 PM
2003 Subaru open Class rally car for sale	sidewaysrules	Private Vehicle 'For Sale' Classifieds	18	01-24-2010 07:26 PM
FS: '96 Impreza Coupe Open Class Rally Car	outback2.5HO	Private Vehicle 'For Sale' Classifieds	3	12-10-2007 09:35 PM
FS:'91 Legacy Turbo Open Class Rally Car	outback2.5HO	Private Vehicle 'For Sale' Classifieds	20	07-22-2005 04:35 PM
AV Sport - Open Class Rally Car	chiraoka	Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo)	11	05-24-2002 12:23 PM

03-25-2008, 01:23 AM	#2
MRX WRX Scooby Specialist Member#: 114566 Join Date: May 2006 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: houston Vehicle: 2005 STI aspen white	what are the motor specs? this makes a huge difference...ie cams, portwork RPM's, type of fuel what tranny antilag etc etc

03-25-2008, 09:31 PM	#4
kingsubi Scooby Specialist Member#: 19239 Join Date: May 2002 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: QC / ME Vehicle: 2011 WRX SWP	You may want to search in the old school pre-02 turbo area. A version 4 is not a ej20g but a ej20k. Is it coil on plug? If it isn't (has spark plug wires) than it is not an ej20g. In addition, the ej20k has lately being blowing bearings both here and in the UK (I assume in Japan too but they don't have as many boards like this). You may want to think of a rebuild or at least a tear down and inspection with new bearings. What class are you running in? I thought all cars had to come with that motor stock in the US or they are open class?

03-27-2008, 10:43 AM	#9
keirnna Scooby Specialist Member#: 50167 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: From Indiana, Living in Japan Vehicle: 1996 Subaru STI RA White	There are several ways to make a later model turbo work. I would say run a custom metal inlet pipe straight under the manifold. It is very common in Japan.

03-28-2008, 07:25 PM	#11
keirnna Scooby Specialist Member#: 50167 Join Date: Dec 2003 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: From Indiana, Living in Japan Vehicle: 1996 Subaru STI RA White	I really wouldn't worry about the fuel rails.

03-29-2008, 12:25 PM	#12
shvrdavid Scooby Specialist Member#: 86078 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Central Pa. Vehicle: 2005 Sti 4094R Twin Scroll	One thing that you need to keep in mind is the function of the restrictor, and where it has to be put... I know that sounds strange, but hear me out... Most classes require a restrictor before the turbo... Now, think what that does to the compressor map.... If you are going to run, say 1 bar of boost, normally you would be looking at the 2:1 part of the compressor map... With the restrictor in the intake tube, the map will be at 2:1 on the left side of the map, and close to 3:1 on the right side of the map... The restrictor will pull a vacuum infront of the compressor wheel, causing the change in ratio across the map... I would also check the rules on where, and if, you can recirculate air to... (BOV)... Keep that in mind when choosing your turbo....

01-26-2009, 03:37 PM	#13
GodSquadMandrake Scooby Specialist Member#: 175435 Join Date: Mar 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Minneapolis, MN Vehicle: 1986 RX7 Sunrise Red	bump. Anybody have an idea what a good turbo for the EJ20G with a 34mm restrictor combo is?

01-26-2009, 04:43 PM	#14
mannslayer Scooby Specialist Member#: 94978 Join Date: Aug 2005 Chapter/Region: VIC Location: Kelowna, Canada	any vf series turbo will work well for your application. i am talking about a vf30, 34, 39, etc. will you be running anti-lag on the car as well? if so, i'd go out and buy 5 turbos to start.

01-26-2009, 06:36 PM	#15
mxpunk Scooby Specialist Member#: 132130 Join Date: Nov 2006 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Austin, Texas Vehicle: 2002 Ford F-150 Graphite Gray	i would ditch it and get a usdm motor. more tuning options, more reliable, easier to find parts for which is crucial when you're racing.

01-27-2009, 07:36 AM	#16
GodSquadMandrake Scooby Specialist Member#: 175435 Join Date: Mar 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Minneapolis, MN Vehicle: 1986 RX7 Sunrise Red	No I won't be running anti-lag. The car is basically a $5,000 car so it's built with mostly OEM off the shelf type of stuff. USDM EJ22 block, JDM EJ20G heads, PP6, EVOIII 16G turbo. I chose the 16G because it seems to be a popular choice but if there was a more ideal turbo for the job I can always change it. Yeah I thought the JDM EJ20G heads were a good choice to go with my stock EJ22 block on the Legacy, but I was wrong. It's really hard to get parts for and probably more expensive in the end because of that. If these heads go, I think I am going to try and do something USDM so that I can go down to the dealership to get gaskets and tune-up parts that I need.

01-27-2009, 02:40 PM	#18
DSM_Outback Scooby Specialist Member#: 56345 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: CO Vehicle: 1997 OBS Primer Grey	http://franzdiebold.com/ Specializes in restricted turbo setups. BTW: We have a saying here in CO...Red Wings suck.

01-30-2009, 07:55 PM	#20
BHawk Scooby Specialist Member#: 61860 Join Date: May 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Mid-Mo Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi Aspen White	VF22 used to be the WRC turbo for version S5 '98 and '99 (yes that was on a 34mm restrictor)