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Old 10-19-2018, 12:24 AM   #2601
silversurfer05
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He sped off like he was in 3rd when I was in 6th. I think he had a big turbo. It was quiet. I was in the powerband.
Yea the 67-7163 are not big turbos at all. In 3rd at 65 you would be at 4200-4500 rpm, so valve not needed. They dont make this in a big enough configuration to need a qsv. If you both were in sixth gear and he still walked away like he was in third, then he probably had a bigger turbo
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:47 AM   #2602
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Originally Posted by Waddlz View Post
damn PDX. you're making 33 psi by 3800ish RPMS? very nice

i make 27 psi by 3800 RPMs but still on stock header and FMIC. Are you TMIC?
And 5,5xx ft above sea level.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:03 PM   #2603
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And 5,5xx ft above sea level.
cant complain about that lol.
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:25 PM   #2604
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^^ Being on the OEM manifold is it correct to guess you don't have it wrapped?

Wrapping my manifold, even being ceramic coated, gained me an easy 300+ RPMS of spool.
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Old 10-21-2018, 02:18 AM   #2605
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^^ Being on the OEM manifold is it correct to guess you don't have it wrapped?

Wrapping my manifold, even being ceramic coated, gained me an easy 300+ RPMS of spool.
its wrapped. Not very well however. i need to take it back off and do it again. been on there for a couple years too
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Old 10-21-2018, 02:27 AM   #2606
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I was really amazed at what the wrap did, especially because it was already ceramic coated

How come you're still on the stock mani.?
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Old 10-21-2018, 04:27 PM   #2607
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Yes, driver error, nothing will help you when you are making such little axle torque

edit;
sorry I think I read your post wrong, so you were at high rpm to start? In that case yes a 7163 would be better because you can make more high rpm power and be faster, but a qsv will just hurt almost everywhere.
Why do you think it would hurt everywhere. I see it spooling like the first graph in this thread because of halving the AR (.46) and flowing more up top because its .92 AR with the valve open vs .85. I see it having a broader powerband then the standard housing.
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Old 10-21-2018, 04:28 PM   #2608
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I was really amazed at what the wrap did, especially because it was already ceramic coated

How come you're still on the stock mani.?
I'm ceramic coated and my wrap fell off and I didnt notice much spool difference but thats with the 6758. Perhaps its different with the 7163.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:56 PM   #2609
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I was really amazed at what the wrap did, especially because it was already ceramic coated

How come you're still on the stock mani.?
I like the Subaru rumble. Dont want to go to an ELH setup.
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:58 PM   #2610
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I like the Subaru rumble. Dont want to go to an ELH setup.
Gotcha.

One thing I don't like about a catless/ELH setup. It sounds a bit ricey at times IMO.
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:15 PM   #2611
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Why do you think it would hurt everywhere. I see it spooling like the first graph in this thread because of halving the AR (.46) and flowing more up top because its .92 AR with the valve open vs .85. I see it having a broader powerband then the standard housing.
I don't know what graph you are referring to but it doesn't really matter. They are great for marketing and only one specific type of driving. On a dyno graph they "can" show lower rpm spool increases. This means that you can view dyno graphs all day long that appear to show a lower boost threshold and thus earlier torque. What they don't show is how the car actually drives. Without going into a lot of detail you will lose response down low and hurt power up top while also creating a dead zone after the flap opens up.

The only place this helps is during part throttle low rpm cruising where the turbo would normally be too large to spool up in that range. At high rpm the larger ar doesn't mean anything because you have that massive plate in the way so you lose aerodynamic efficiency. Basically a lose/lose.

Anecdotally, my friend has tuned about 5 cars, mostly 6 cylinders with these and 4 have tossed the qsv before a year was up. I was just talking a few nights ago to one owner in the process of removing his from a 2jz because it felt like crap driving with it even though his initial expectations were exactly in line with yours. After a month or so he already wanted to get rid of it...


Just remember, you are talking about very small turbos that have basically instant spool when you are in the correct gear.
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:16 PM   #2612
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Gotcha.

One thing I don't like about a catless/ELH setup. It sounds a bit ricey at times IMO.
KillerB solves that to a good extent
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:43 PM   #2613
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KillerB solves that to a good extent
Actually the killer b sounds just like the full race 1.5 scroll

I think the fp. green still spooled a bit quicker, maybe 50 rpms. I'd have to look at some logs.

I attribute some or all of that to the kb header.
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Old 10-22-2018, 04:18 PM   #2614
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I don't know what graph you are referring to but it doesn't really matter. They are great for marketing and only one specific type of driving. On a dyno graph they "can" show lower rpm spool increases. This means that you can view dyno graphs all day long that appear to show a lower boost threshold and thus earlier torque. What they don't show is how the car actually drives. Without going into a lot of detail you will lose response down low and hurt power up top while also creating a dead zone after the flap opens up.

The only place this helps is during part throttle low rpm cruising where the turbo would normally be too large to spool up in that range. At high rpm the larger ar doesn't mean anything because you have that massive plate in the way so you lose aerodynamic efficiency. Basically a lose/lose.

Anecdotally, my friend has tuned about 5 cars, mostly 6 cylinders with these and 4 have tossed the qsv before a year was up. I was just talking a few nights ago to one owner in the process of removing his from a 2jz because it felt like crap driving with it even though his initial expectations were exactly in line with yours. After a month or so he already wanted to get rid of it...


Just remember, you are talking about very small turbos that have basically instant spool when you are in the correct gear.
There are some guys in this thread saying it does show advantages. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=1857853 I forgot what page it’s on but there’s a guy showing earlier spool and response with a small gap if increased back pressure. Clark tuning found good results too. Your the first person I’ve seen say otherwise, not saying your wrong. In fact I kind of want you to be right cause it will save me money.

The guy I bought it from said I have to be careful because I could over spin the turbo from Spooling too quickly. The housing I have is a efr prototype that was showcased once at an event.

Here’s a picture of mine.




Are you saying the advantages of the larger AR are eaten up because the dividing plate takes up some of the volume?

Last edited by Xtea; 10-22-2018 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:59 PM   #2615
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^^ Being on the OEM manifold is it correct to guess you don't have it wrapped?

Wrapping my manifold, even being ceramic coated, gained me an easy 300+ RPMS of spool.
You got 300 rpms just from wrap? Iíve got a 1.5 scroll full race. Do you see those benefits without tune change? Iíd like to wait to wrap till winter.

So Iím thinking of swapping to standard 7163 without the qsv housing just to see how it is. I need a custom uppipe for the qsv housing and thatís gonna run me $800-1200.

My current 6758 is a IRL version without integrated bpv. Iím using a grimmspeed Tmic. Questions is, where could a get a bpv block off plate for the tmic for when I put the 7163 on or I was thinking I could just cut a piece of sheet metal and use a stock bpv as a cap to hold it in place till I get something pretty looking.
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:10 PM   #2616
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I have a brand new full race oem bov block off if you're interested.

Yes, 300 rpms from a good solid wrap using dei titanium on the headers, and thermal zero blanket on the uppipe
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:19 PM   #2617
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I have a brand new full race oem bov block off if you're interested.

Yes, 300 rpms from a good solid wrap using dei titanium on the headers, and thermal zero blanket on the uppipe
Yes Iím interested. Pming.
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:54 PM   #2618
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You got 300 rpms just from wrap? Iíve got a 1.5 scroll full race. Do you see those benefits without tune change? Iíd like to wait to wrap till winter.
Don't forget that you are thinking about 300rpms of spool that you should never see on the road. If you are trying to accelerate fast but are in 4th gear at 2000rpm going WOT (like during a dyno pull) you are going to accelerate slowly, regardless of where it spools. The HP difference at such low rpm is negligible so that increase in spool that shows on a dyno is not important at all.

the only test that is valuable is to log acceleration in gear from vacuum to full boost/torque in an actual driving condition, for instance, at steady cruise at 3000/4000/5000/6000 rpm in 3rd gear and go WOT under both conditions and verify through the logs the time it took to hit full boost and also the time it took to accelerate between two speeds.
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:59 PM   #2619
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Don't forget that you are thinking about 300rpms of spool that you should never see on the road. If you are trying to accelerate fast but are in 4th gear at 2000rpm going WOT (like during a dyno pull) you are going to accelerate slowly, regardless of where it spools. The HP difference at such low rpm is negligible so that increase in spool that shows on a dyno is not important at all.

the only test that is valuable is to log acceleration in gear from vacuum to full boost/torque in an actual driving condition, for instance, at steady cruise at 3000/4000/5000/6000 rpm in 3rd gear and go WOT under both conditions and verify through the logs the time it took to hit full boost and also the time it took to accelerate between two speeds.
Got anything more to say about the quick spoil valve? I feel like full race wouldnít have made it if it didnít work.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:00 PM   #2620
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There are some guys in this thread saying it does show advantages. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=1857853 I forgot what page it’s on but there’s a guy showing earlier spool and response with a small gap if increased back pressure. Clark tuning found good results too. Your the first person I’ve seen say otherwise, not saying your wrong. In fact I kind of want you to be right cause it will save me money.

The guy I bought it from said I have to be careful because I could over spin the turbo from Spooling too quickly. The housing I have is a efr prototype that was showcased once at an event.

Here’s a picture of mine.




Are you saying the advantages of the larger AR are eaten up because the dividing plate takes up some of the volume?
I'm not saying don't try it, if you want to then definitely go ahead. You might like the feeling. I can just tell you that yes, shoving that plate in the way is a restriction, on a small engine you will have issues during the opening of that plate. Think of fueling and timing requirements using a .46 vs a .92 housing... the VE changes with closed an opened are quite different so tuning is a pain to get drivability that's good etc etc etc....


you will have more lag going to the 7163, possible some better part throttle and pre-boost engine response going to the larger turbo as well. If you want "spool" stay with what you have, but if you want to be faster then you need the bigger turbo to make more power at higher rpm where its more effective.


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Got anything more to say about the quick spoil valve? I feel like full race wouldn’t have made it if it didn’t work.
I believe it was Sound Performance, but I could be wrong.

It does work, you will spool sooner, no doubt, you can prove it on a dyno graph. But spool is an unimportant part of your equation because you are working with small turbos. If you had a turbo that wouldn't spool until 6000rpm

Last edited by blurred; 10-22-2018 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:37 PM   #2621
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Don't forget that you are thinking about 300rpms of spool that you should never see on the road. If you are trying to accelerate fast but are in 4th gear at 2000rpm going WOT (like during a dyno pull) you are going to accelerate slowly, regardless of where it spools. The HP difference at such low rpm is negligible so that increase in spool that shows on a dyno is not important at all.

the only test that is valuable is to log acceleration in gear from vacuum to full boost/torque in an actual driving condition, for instance, at steady cruise at 3000/4000/5000/6000 rpm in 3rd gear and go WOT under both conditions and verify through the logs the time it took to hit full boost and also the time it took to accelerate between two speeds.
You'll see it on the street. The additional spool comes from more energy (heat) which doesn't go away above 2k rpms.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:38 PM   #2622
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My 6758 with a .85 hot side feels just fine.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:00 PM   #2623
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My current 6758 is a IRL version without integrated bpv.
Why not just go to an IRL 7163? Same exhaust flange and fitment. Would need a new inlet or to rework the inlet diameter. Inlet ID on the compressor is the same between the two. Pending which o-ring gland you have, you could be ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blurred View Post
Don't forget that you are thinking about 300rpms of spool that you should never see on the road. If you are trying to accelerate fast but are in 4th gear at 2000rpm going WOT (like during a dyno pull) you are going to accelerate slowly, regardless of where it spools. The HP difference at such low rpm is negligible so that increase in spool that shows on a dyno is not important at all.

the only test that is valuable is to log acceleration in gear from vacuum to full boost/torque in an actual driving condition, for instance, at steady cruise at 3000/4000/5000/6000 rpm in 3rd gear and go WOT under both conditions and verify through the logs the time it took to hit full boost and also the time it took to accelerate between two speeds.
This seems like you're contradicting yourself. It doesn't matter....except do a road test and see higher mass flow at a lower RPM, which would decrease time to speed...all relative to starting RPM.

Did I miss something?

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Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
My 6758 with a .85 hot side feels just fine.
I'm curious to see how my 0.64 and 0.85 6758 compare. Then comes the 0.85 7163. All IRL snails so interchangeable less the inlet trumpet.
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:13 PM   #2624
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Why not just go to an IRL 7163? Same exhaust flange and fitment. Would need a new inlet or to rework the inlet diameter. Inlet ID on the compressor is the same between the two. Pending which o-ring gland you have, you could be ok.



This seems like you're contradicting yourself. It doesn't matter....except do a road test and see higher mass flow at a lower RPM, which would decrease time to speed...all relative to starting RPM.

Did I miss something?




I'm curious to see how my 0.64 and 0.85 6758 compare. Then comes the 0.85 7163. All IRL snails so interchangeable less the inlet trumpet.


I donít have a IRL compressor housing for my 7163. My 7163 is standard. I want to use the integrated blow off valve also.

I think the qsv will make a difference and eliminate all lag essentially making the 7163 feel like a 6758 downlow. As for up top, maybe, maybe not. With the plate closed the internals are basically no different then twin scroll except for the slightly larger AR. As for the gap causing inefficency, I think I can file it down to a wedge like shape to mitigate that issue.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:05 PM   #2625
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As for the gap causing inefficency, I think I can file it down to a wedge like shape to mitigate that issue.
I wouldn't suggest doing that.

At low velocity (low RPM), I don't think that'll be much of an issue.

When it closes, for high speed gas flow, you'll now have a gap in what should be a closed wall.

I'd keep the majority powerband advantage over the smaller low speed area....if it's even noticeable.
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