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Old 02-28-2019, 06:50 PM   #76
PDXREALTOR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
Mine is down at 2838lbs full tank of fuel, my fatt-ars is another 200lbs but I am currently removing weight from my backside, lol. I use a set of corner scales I got years back for a track car I was running, they have paid themselves off several times over at this point.
I know. Jealous. I'd take your 200 lbs if I could loose the 900 off my car.

PS - I hate you. I want that clutch now.
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:37 PM   #77
TDagen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXREALTOR View Post
I haven't done any dedicated 3rd gear pulls. In general it comes on damn quick.

I'll do a 3rd pull if possible next time I'm out.
Cool!

3rd gear WOT logs are a little less risky on the street for tuning and the ticket will cost a lot less if red and blue do catch up with you Between 3rd and 4th the numbers are identical, the only difference is 4th will have a very slightly wider powerband due to the extra load.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:52 PM   #78
PDXREALTOR
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Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Cool!

3rd gear WOT logs are a little less risky on the street for tuning and the ticket will cost a lot less if red and blue do catch up with you Between 3rd and 4th the numbers are identical, the only difference is 4th will have a very slightly wider powerband due to the extra load.
Am I misunderstanding you? My third gear pulls are always higher hp/tq vs 4th gear pulls.
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Old 03-01-2019, 12:56 AM   #79
TDagen
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As far as I can tell it sounds like we are on the same page
3rd gear vs 4th gear pulls should be very very close power wise with 4th gear spooling a little faster than 3rd.

Now I don’t know how you have your tune setup or what your boost control looks like etc but your fueling, timing and or boost may be changing when hitting higher load cells in 4th gear resulting in slightly less hp/tq.

Do you have a few separate wot logs with timing, boost and fueling of 3rd and 4th where the 3rd is dynoing higher? Post them up I would be down to take a look. How big of a difference in numbers were you seeing?

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=1478091
^ Btw here is an old golden nugget of a thread on dynoing in 1:1 gear ratio, quite a few knowledgeable people chime in. And below is a small excerpt from that thread that I found interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post

I'll note a couple findings from my heavy use of road dyno software. I've actually found that all things being equal, most cars will actually read slightly higher numbers in higher gears on my road dyno software. Note that this is assuming that there is no additional heat soak, the same timing, boost, and fuel curve throughout the pull in either gear. After thinking this over and discussing with a couple mechanical engineering friends, there is a very simple explanation. During a pull in a higher gear, the mechanical gears in the transmission and diff are actually being accelerated at a slower rate. The slower rate of acceleration of the mass of the gears actually results in less inertial loss than it would in a lower gear and faster rate of acceleration. So technically you have the most parasitic losses in 1st gear, and the least in 6th gear .

To conclude, I believe that most of the time when people claim lower numbers in higher gears, this is due to other factors such as lack of airflow for a longer sustained pull resulting in heat soak, pulled timing, etc. Its just been greatly confused and too many people have concluded this false statement that IN GENERAL higher gears produce lower numbers.

-- Ed
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Old 03-01-2019, 01:21 AM   #80
PDXREALTOR
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Damn,.... Now you're making me use my head. Lol

I have scads of 3rd and 4th pulls done on same day/time/highway. They should be before I added per-gear timing to 3rd also. I'll put A couple up tomorrow when I'm at the desktop.

I want to say ~25 hp higher in 3rd using VD.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:35 PM   #81
PDXREALTOR
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I have yet to finish reading the thread you linked. Some of my favorite people to read info posts on are in that thread, but, I lost interest when it started getting technical and data started getting muddied.

I found a couple of pulls - same day, same stretch of road. 4th does have 1* of timing removed compared to 3rd. A lot of the other pulls I looked at while trying to find a good comparison were closer than I estimated above (~ 25 hp) - but - most of those were ' work in progress' pulls also.

However, at the least, 4th loads the car harder and for a longer period of time. I'm constantly romping on the car in 4th gear, so I want to make sure the car is dialed up into that stress zone. I would think if 5th could be tuned without having to get up so high in speeds that may be the gear of choice. 4th seems to be a happy medium.

But, back to the actual subject - common sense would certainly say the engine puts out the same power regardless of gear. The gear ratio allows the power to be put to the ground the quicker or slower and, the numbers on the dyno should auto correct for the ratio change.

Here's a couple snapshots of those pulls




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Old 03-01-2019, 06:35 PM   #82
TDagen
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Cool!

Can you post those data logs of those 2 pulls?

Yeah, at the end of the day the numbers really don’t matter. But getting the car tuned properly and smoothly in each gear matters immensely. Numbers are numbers. When you go wot often in 4th and it’s smooth as butter, that’s what matters.

The numbers the dyno reports that are important (IMO) are the spool up numbers! I cannot wait to see when you add some wgdc. I bet that things really gonna light up once it’s in its efficiency range!
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:49 PM   #83
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https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_s...NodI8TwgxRQbdL

That should take you to the logs.

I can't wait to turn it up either!
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:47 PM   #84
Scuby04STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXREALTOR View Post
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_s...NodI8TwgxRQbdL

That should take you to the logs.

I can't wait to turn it up either!
When is this happening? Any plans to take it to the drag strip?
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:35 AM   #85
PDXREALTOR
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Took it off the rev limiter tonight, and drove about 250 miles. Took my first stab at tuning a bit of the boost curve. I usually just run MBC at full boost or spring pressure and call it good.

It's a real PITA trying to learn tuning boost while not being on a dedicated road. I thought I had it, left my spot, but, something happened and this dip came back. I'll get it. Just needs more WG. It's a spring pressure , pump gas only, tune so... I only want to run the boost flat out to redline - nothing more.

That and the SD IAT Comp table is giving me hell. Is that thing really consistent if the ideal gas law numbers are used? I didn't have much luck when I tried them last summer so this time I zeroed out the cell I tuned my VE table in and am trying to tweak the neighboring cells, but, nothing is really adding up or making sense. Some how I gained ~ 2% of fuel tonight on the same IAT reading, but colder ambient air. I don't really know how much of a difference there is between 26* ambient air and the air in the intake manifold - and how much does it change if your WOT vs. mile cruise? And, if the IAT was reading hotter than the actual charge temp I wouldn't gain 2% of fuel, I would LOSE 2% of fuel. Makes me think it's something else like perhaps tuning the boost at a MAP of 39 out to redline and adjusting the VE table for proper fueling is affecting the other cells around it.

I also realized that it might not be so much the IAT sensor but in 26* weather the engine load just goes abnormally high and as a result it seems timing needs to be removed, which is odd because the TIMING IAT comp table adds it as the temps drop.

I ended up creating another load column in the timing tables and scaling out a full load point (2.85 - 3.80) with lower timing to deal with the really cold nights.

Any suggestions on how others who have extreme temps on occasion (not often) deal with this?

I was thinking of removing the added timing from the IAT timing comp. table, but, then I question if it's added there from the factory and Cobb It must be for a reason. LIKE having timing dialed in the mid temp cells, 68-86* (which neither add or remove timing) then the table should do it's job in the hot and cold extremes IE add or remove timing. - why re-arrange an 'algorithm' that was arranged that way for a reason?

Then I think I'd rather have .70 or more degrees of timing in the 68-86* cells, and no 'extra' timing in the cold cells. I bet that would cost me double the timing in the hot cells though. Follow me?

Hmmmm..... sorry for all the ramble. Long night.

This pump gas tune is all but done. I'll add my meth squirt to it, bump timing 2* and then start dumping TORCO in it so I can haul some ass. I'll probably wait for some warmer weather to see how she performs. If that ever happens... good Lord .... Sick of this cold weather.

Here's the best, smoothest, out of three 3rd and three 4th gear pulls tonight. These were done in my spot - 4th gear pulls should be bang on as my I have a highway with road marker and it's as flat as it gets. 3rd gear pulls vary a bit - I try go far enough to cool down a bit, then hit the next flat section but sometimes the traffic gets in my way.

Speaking of meth and TORCO - I realized about 80 miles away from home that I forgot to take out 13 gallons of -35 wiper fluid I got for meth injection. So - add another 100 or so pounds to the graphs. But, figure, it was 26* outside. Lol... Edit one last time - SAE corrected at 30.25 pressure, 26*F , and a car weight of 3778 puts the numbers at 451 and 423.


Last edited by PDXREALTOR; 03-04-2019 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:25 PM   #86
PDXREALTOR
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New leak down and compression numbers -

1000 mile mark - couple cylinders actually got worse -

Compression
Hot/warm motor
each test performed 2x - cylinder test order - 4,2,1,3
-10 cranks, WOT, fresh battery charge
Cyl -
1- 142,142
2- 132,132
3- 137,137
4- 130,130

Leak Down Test
- done after compression test
- motor warm enough to heat up air hose at plug end
- 1 6%@ 100 psi , 4% @ 75 psi
- 2 8% @ 100 psi, 8% @ 75psi
- 3 9% @ 100 psi, 9% @ 75 psi
- 4 18 @ 100 psi, 17 @ 75
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Old 03-17-2019, 07:52 AM   #87
PDXREALTOR
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Shaved Manifold came out excellent.



Doing the final set of leak down/comp tests tomorrow. Hoping for something good to come out of it, but , expecting the only thing coming out of anything is the motor out of the car.

Too bad because she feels so good. Nice and smooth.......
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