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Old 03-21-2023, 09:16 PM   #4051
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Tesla reportedly saw an uptick in crashes and mistakes after Elon Musk removed radar from its cars
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...-report-2023-3
Quote:
Since Elon Musk announced that Tesla was doing away with radar sensors on its cars nearly two years ago, the electric-car maker has seen an increase in crashes and near accidents, according to a recent report from The Washington Post.

The publication cited interviews with dozens of former employees, test drivers, and other experts. After the update in 2021, more Teslas running on Autopilot or Full Self-Driving began stopping for imaginary obstacles, misidentifying street signs, and having difficulties identifying emergency vehicles, the Post reported, citing complaints that were filed with regulators.

Some sources told the publication that there was a correlation between the uptick in instances of phantom braking — when a vehicle suddenly stops at random — and the elimination of radar. Data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which is investigating the issue, shows the agency has received hundreds of complaints of phantom braking over the past nine months, the publication said. Last year, over 750 Tesla drivers told the NHTSA their cars had randomly slammed on the brakes while they were driving.

Meanwhile, in 2022 the agency also upgraded its investigation into Autopilot, after over a dozen instances of Teslas crashing into emergency vehicles. The NHTSA has said the driver-assist feature has trouble identifying parked vehicles.

Musk first announced the carmaker would eliminate the use of radars in its cars in 2021. At the time, some engineers were "aghast" and reached out to a former Tesla executive for advice on how to convince Musk not to remove the sensors, the Post reported. Musk has said in the past that he wants Tesla's Full Self-Driving and Autopilot software to mimic human senses by using its cameras — rather than radar — as eyes.

All current Teslas are equipped with the Autopilot driver assist feature. For a one-time payment of $15,000 or monthly charge of $199 per month, owners can also opt for the FSD add-on, which allows a car to recognize stop signs and traffic lights, change lanes, and park. Both features require a licensed driver behind the wheel.

Before 2021, the electric-car maker used radar sensors in addition to cameras to help the vehicles identify obstacles. Now, the company relies on eight cameras and Autopilot labelers to train the car to respond to its environment. Workers at Tesla train the cars to identify and respond to different obstacles by labeling footage that is taken by the car's cameras.

Other self-driving sensors like LiDAR technology are popular with Tesla's self-driving rivals. The vehicles use these sensors to help digitally map out its environment and avoid mistakes, even when its cameras are obscured by external elements like rain, snow, or fog. In the past, Musk has said LiDAR is "doomed" and too costly.

The billionaire has been promising since 2016 that Tesla would soon have a truly autonomous car on the market, but experts are less optimistic.

Earlier this year, experts told Insider's Tim Levin that FSD is far from autonomous. And in February, Tesla issued an over-the-air software update to more than 362,000 cars over an issue with FSD that the NHTSA said could cause the cars to "act unsafe around intersections."

A Tesla spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment from Insider. In its voluntary vehicle safety report, the company says its cars "have achieved among the lowest overall probability of injury of any vehicles ever tested by the U.S. government's New Car Assessment Program." In January, the company said Teslas recorded one crash for every 6.26 million miles driven using Autopilot in the third quarter of 2022.
3.....2.....1.....deny, deny, deflect, accuse.....PRAISE.....
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Old 04-01-2023, 11:47 AM   #4052
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Looks like they're FINALLY releasing some new designs at Tesla....

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While the yoke did a better job than a traditional wheel of not obscuring the dashboard (which was a huge problem until the yoke came along), it wasn't perfect--it could still obstruct the visuals while it's being rotated in turns. Enter the new Tesla Nub steering control! It will never obscure any of your controls again. And don't worry about accidentally honking the horn while using the Nub, since the horn button is now in the glove compartment, along with the turn signal, wiper, and light controls. Another giant leap forward with user interface design, by Tesla.


Tesla continues the tradition of its yoke by the imminent release of its new Brok wheels. Much like the yoke lets you see through it better by removing unnecessary wheel area and gets rid of the ugly-looking stalks, the Brok wheels remove spokes so you can see the brake discs better and removes the ugly-looking brakes. Additionally, instead of brake pedals, you now operation brakes by pressing a capacitance button on the face of the wheel (just like the horn, wiper, and turn signal capacitance buttons on the yoke).


In another giant leap in genius driver-oriented user interface design, upcoming Teslas will remove the screens from view completely and put them in the glove compartment. Not only that, but the last physical driving controls (pedals, steering, etc.) have now joined all the other car controls on this screen.

While these controls might cause some concern for those who might refuse to step out of the past and accept the future, the fact that full self-driving is expected to be ready by mid-April (roughly two weeks away) means that these controls won't be needed for long. Until then, there's even an "Open Glove Compartment" button that's been added to the interface that will help you open the glove compartment whenever you need to turn, stop, or go.
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Old 04-01-2023, 12:31 PM   #4053
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Originally Posted by SubaDuba420 View Post
Tesla reportedly saw an uptick in crashes and mistakes after Elon Musk removed radar from its cars
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...-report-2023-3


3.....2.....1.....deny, deny, deflect, accuse.....PRAISE.....
Musky dun f up this time. Nothing sees signs and emergency vehicles better than radar.. Well other than lidar I mean! My next car is going to have 5 lidars! For teh safety!
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Old 04-01-2023, 02:05 PM   #4054
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Looks like they're FINALLY releasing some new designs at Tesla....
When they mention “full self driving by mid April,” are they staying complete autonomous driving without any need for driver assistance / hands on wheel? If so, mother ****er is high as a kite.
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Old 04-02-2023, 04:08 PM   #4055
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For the 4th straight quarter, and even with significant price cuts, Tesla again didn't sell all the cars they built in the 1st quarter.

https://apple.news/AY46rnIsIQOCPp0NFea3B6w

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla...icles-q1-2023/


But they came pretty close. They produced 440,808 vehicles and sold 422,875 in the quarter. Sales were up about 4% vs. Q4 2022. So that's good and bad considering the price cuts. I wonder how much they will cut the base model 3 price again now that the full rebate is gone. And will they wait for project highland or will they drop prices right away? If the price of gas goes up enough they may not have to.

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Old 04-03-2023, 07:39 AM   #4056
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Originally Posted by rexster View Post
For the 4th straight quarter, and even with significant price cuts, Tesla again didn't sell all the cars they built in the 1st quarter.

https://apple.news/AY46rnIsIQOCPp0NFea3B6w

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla...icles-q1-2023/


But they came pretty close. They produced 440,808 vehicles and sold 422,875 in the quarter. Sales were up about 4% vs. Q4 2022. So that's good and bad considering the price cuts. I wonder how much they will cut the base model 3 price again now that the full rebate is gone. And will they wait for project highland or will they drop prices right away? If the price of gas goes up enough they may not have to.
Just wait until other manufacturer report their quarterly sales it is going to be ugly. The interest rates are way too high; who in their right mind wants to buy a new car at 7-6% interest rate for 72 months . There is also lots of fear with layoffs left and right even McDonalds is preparing for layoffs. This economic crisis is going to put many automakers in the risk of failure and we already have seen examples of many EV start ups essentially becoming penny stock and others like Rivian loosing 11x their value for their all time high.

Tesla has lots of cash and no debt and it will fine through this economic crisis but they will have to lower prices therefore hurting margins. Elon already said last year that he will sacrifice profits for unit growth. The good thing is that Tesla still has lots a margin and still has room to lower prices but this is going to hurt their competitors bad. A Model 3 Performance for $54k with $7500 EV incentive is a hell of a deal at $42k while an entry bare bones BMW 330i RWD is $44k. I am not sure what the stock will do, I would guess it will be pushing a little bit at first but when other automakers start to report their earnings it will show who is the clear leader and winner which might help the stock. The stock is down a good bit already so some of this might be already priced in.

On the Model 3 SR and the EV incentive decreasing maybe Tesla can use more the lease loophole. Also, they could start selling the Model 3 LR again to give customer another option priced lower than the Model 3 P but they might be battery constrained. But I agree that the EV tax credit change is going to make Q2 difficult. This high interest rate period will eventually end.

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Old 04-03-2023, 10:40 AM   #4057
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When they mention “full self driving by mid April,” are they staying complete autonomous driving without any need for driver assistance / hands on wheel? If so, mother ****er is high as a kite.
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Old 04-06-2023, 12:16 PM   #4058
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GREAT company ya got there.....SO glad I ain't "us"
Special Report: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
https://www.reuters.com/technology/t...rs-2023-04-06/
-Private camera recordings, captured by cars, were shared in chat rooms: ex-workers
-Circulated clips included one of child being hit by car: ex-employees
-Tesla says recordings made by vehicle cameras ‘remain anonymous’
-One video showed submersible vehicle from James Bond film, owned by Elon Musk
Quote:
LONDON/SAN FRANCISCO, April 6 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc assures its millions of electric car owners that their privacy “is and will always be enormously important to us.” The cameras it builds into vehicles to assist driving, it notes on its website, are “designed from the ground up to protect your privacy.”

But between 2019 and 2022, groups of Tesla employees privately shared via an internal messaging system sometimes highly invasive videos and images recorded by customers’ car cameras, according to interviews by Reuters with nine former employees.

Some of the recordings caught Tesla customers in embarrassing situations. One ex-employee described a video of a man approaching a vehicle completely naked.

Also shared: crashes and road-rage incidents. One crash video in 2021 showed a Tesla driving at high speed in a residential area hitting a child riding a bike, according to another ex-employee. The child flew in one direction, the bike in another. The video spread around a Tesla office in San Mateo, California, via private one-on-one chats, “like wildfire,” the ex-employee said.

Other images were more mundane, such as pictures of dogs and funny road signs that employees made into memes by embellishing them with amusing captions or commentary, before posting them in private group chats. While some postings were only shared between two employees, others could be seen by scores of them, according to several ex-employees.

Tesla states in its online “Customer Privacy Notice” that its “camera recordings remain anonymous and are not linked to you or your vehicle.” But seven former employees told Reuters the computer program they used at work could show the location of recordings – which potentially could reveal where a Tesla owner lived.

One ex-employee also said that some recordings appeared to have been made when cars were parked and turned off. Several years ago, Tesla would receive video recordings from its vehicles even when they were off, if owners gave consent. It has since stopped doing so.

“We could see inside people's garages and their private properties,” said another former employee. “Let's say that a Tesla customer had something in their garage that was distinctive, you know, people would post those kinds of things.”

Tesla didn't respond to detailed questions sent to the company for this report......
"but, but, people signed waivers....i've got nothing to hide....self driving....AI..."
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Old 04-06-2023, 12:45 PM   #4059
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
When they mention “full self driving by mid April,” are they staying complete autonomous driving without any need for driver assistance / hands on wheel? If so, mother ****er is high as a kite.
Yeah, I was just making that up, too (even on the Tesla forums, the common joke when anybody asks when something will be released is that Tesla says it will be "in two weeks"...). Though I'm surprised that unsettled you more than the unsteerable steering wheel, controls in the glovebox, or even the wheel with a giant section missing. Then again, it is Tesla...

As far capturing private video....maybe Tesla will see some other cars in people's garages and learn how to not botch up their designs? That said....Every night, when I blow goodnight kisses to my beloved ICE cars, I'm gonna moon my Tesla. Like-hate-relationship with that thing and all.
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Old 04-17-2023, 09:28 AM   #4060
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bahaha Teslaciti It's a brave new digital world. Gone the days of privacy and real human customer service at least in Westernworld.
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Old 04-17-2023, 11:28 AM   #4061
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Let's complain about Tesla being dystopian while the UK is literally planning to shut down all air travel, an extension of not allowing free movement of people between their home neighborhoods. Hey that's just the UK though right? Not like the WEF is pushing the same politics further west. You guys can be like the useful idiots that stopped/rolled back nuclear power just this week in Germany.

I checked the box to participate in FSD beta and share my video. I do not show my frank and beans around the car. It's that simple.
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Old 04-17-2023, 03:19 PM   #4062
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Man, I'd be walking naked and spreading my butt cheeks in front of the camera. If you're going to view / keep video from my cars camera, you've also volunteered to see my chocolate starfish, the goat, the batwing, and whatever other horrible stuff I do in front of the camera.
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Old 04-19-2023, 07:21 AM   #4063
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More price cuts. Base model 3 is now under 40k, and model Y awd is 46,990. Tesla is quickly on its way to being the same as all other car manufacturers. I wonder how low the prices will have go before they sell >20 million vehicles. Everyone says it's the interest rates and competition from other electric vehicles bringing prices down. But the fact that their cars are boring and haven't changed substantially isn't helping. And more importantly, the competition from ICE cars here in the U.S. has returned. You can now buy a hybrid Prius, rav4, highlander, CRV, Tucson, Santa Fe, etc. You couldn't really do that last over the last couple years s without waiting a long time or paying way over msrp because of the chip shortages.

Last edited by rexster; 04-19-2023 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 04-19-2023, 10:22 AM   #4064
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Originally Posted by rexster View Post
More price cuts. Base model 3 is now under 40k, and model Y awd is 46,990. Tesla is quickly on its way to being the same as all other car manufacturers. I wonder how low the prices will have go before they sell >20 million vehicles. Everyone says it's the interest rates and competition from other electric vehicles bringing prices down. But the fact that their cars are boring and haven't changed substantially isn't helping. And more importantly, the competition from ICE cars here in the U.S. has returned. You can now buy a hybrid Prius, rav4, highlander, CRV, Tucson, Santa Fe, etc. You couldn't really do that last over the last couple years s without waiting a long time or paying way over msrp because of the chip shortages.



Prices are still high. I blame the macro even the Ford Lightning is sitting on the lots with no buyers and it just got introduced. Lucid is mega screwed. Seriously who is going to buy a car right now when everyone is afraid of getting layoff and pay crazy high interest? The housing market has crashed as well my parents have been trying to sell their house for 150 days and only had two showings. Even though they decreased the price by a good amount, also a friend had to sell his house for $50k under asking.

Tesla just posted record registrations in China for last week. Tesla gained market share according to Cox Automotive reported 7 days ago.
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Old 04-19-2023, 11:51 AM   #4065
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So.....long range Y is the same price as it was 26 months ago?

Not sure what that Tweet is supposed to convey.
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Old 04-19-2023, 01:56 PM   #4066
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So.....long range Y is the same price as it was 26 months ago?

Not sure what that Tweet is supposed to convey.
The tweet is supposed to convey that the price is the same as back then when Tesla had 25% gross margins which is not like other automaker. Tesla increased prices because commodities increased during Covid and money was cheaply accessible. Now comedies like lithium and aluminum have go down and Tesla has lowered the prices to match affordability with higher interest rates. Today is Tesla earnings and hopefully do well. The auto market is really thought right now and it is great that Tesla stills shows growth.
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Old 04-19-2023, 10:10 PM   #4067
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Tesla has not lowered prices because of lower costs. Interest rates are a factor for sure, but the prices have come down because of decreased demand. They also didn't have to raise prices when their costs went up. I'm guessing they had plenty of margin to absorb the costs and stay profitable. They chose to raise prices because the demand was strong enough that they could.

My guess is that they're going to keep milking the Y for as long as they can, then when model Y sales slow down enough or production capacity increases enough, they'll release project highland and bring the dual motor or maybe even the long range model 3 back. It's been mostly unavailable and there's probably some pent up demand there. Especially if the price is right.

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Old 04-20-2023, 10:47 AM   #4068
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Tesla has not lowered prices because of lower costs. Interest rates are a factor for sure, but the prices have come down because of decreased demand. They also didn't have to raise prices when their costs went up. I'm guessing they had plenty of margin to absorb the costs and stay profitable. They chose to raise prices because the demand was strong enough that they could.

My guess is that they're going to keep milking the Y for as long as they can, then when model Y sales slow down enough or production capacity increases enough, they'll release project highland and bring the dual motor or maybe even the long range model 3 back. It's been mostly unavailable and there's probably some pent up demand there. Especially if the price is right.
If Tesla was like every other company that I was involved in, or read about, they raised prices to maintain profit margins as the commodity market was volatile and they were paying hefty mark-up for materials.

For example, at my former employer, we were paying something like 8000% markup for simple microchips. We raised prices to protect against PPV and were still negative. The profit increase was realized in other areas of the company, as I expect it is in many other companies.

Elon said, last year, that he hoped he could lower prices in the future, as costs decreased. Also, part of lowering the price was to get some of the cars under the tax rebate price cap.
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Old 04-21-2023, 01:20 AM   #4069
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If Tesla was like every other company that I was involved in, or read about, they raised prices to maintain profit margins as the commodity market was volatile and they were paying hefty mark-up for materials.

For example, at my former employer, we were paying something like 8000% markup for simple microchips. We raised prices to protect against PPV and were still negative. The profit increase was realized in other areas of the company, as I expect it is in many other companies.

Elon said, last year, that he hoped he could lower prices in the future, as costs decreased. Also, part of lowering the price was to get some of the cars under the tax rebate price cap.
No one is disagreeing that the reason for the cost increase on the vehicles was due to price increases on materials, this is an obvious “duh.” But it’s pretty apparent that the reason for lowering the prices now is simply due to demand being less. The reason for getting dropping prices so that they could qualify for the tax incentive is again, demand is less. You can argue for or against the reason why demand is lower is due to current economic conditions, interest rates, etc, competition, etc. Tesla is just like any other business, drive demand while increasing revenue and maximizing profits.
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Old 04-22-2023, 07:40 AM   #4070
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More evidence that it's not only a slow economy and rising rates hurting Tesla. They are losing market share from competition. There's not even that many good alternatives yet, so this is only the beginning. I'm holding out for something more traditional where I can control the wipers and climate without using a screen, have a sunroof that actually opens, and has a serviceable battery pack. Or I might just get a hybrid or phev as the argument for them continues to get stronger the more I read about Tesla.

https://apple.news/AjCHiTfi7T-iQ0i6SztOyiw

Quote:
Originally Posted by "Reuters"
Tesla's market share in its key California market tumbled in the first quarter of the year despite aggressive price cuts as rivals stepped up, data showed on Friday.

Tesla Inc controlled 59.6% of the battery electric market in California from January to March, down from 72.7% for the same period last year and the lowest since 2017, according to Reuters calculations based on data from the California Energy Commission.

Rivals such as Volkswagen AG, General Motors Co's Chevrolet and Kia Corp increased their market shares in California during the period, although they remain in the single digits each.

Tesla's sales in California accounted for 16% of the automaker's global deliveries last year, according to Reuters calculation. California is the biggest U.S. state for zero emission vehicles.

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Old 04-23-2023, 03:54 PM   #4071
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I personally think the biggest hurt coming for Tesla is when they’re no longer considered the “hip” car to get. Right now they’re the hot car for many people (well, non-enthusiasts, at least). People don’t get excited for a ride in my one-off sports car; they get excited for a ride in the Tesla. “Oh, you just got a new BMW? That’s nice.” “Oh, you just got a Tesla? Wow!!!”

But like every “hip” thing in the history of humankind, and by the very definition, it’s gonna at some point no longer be the cool thing (as hard as that can be to believe when something is at the height of coolness). Elons antics are probably already starting that downward trend…I just read how everybody is announcing that they didn’t pay for their Twitter Blue verification because Elon is tainted goods…

I’m also kinda curious if electrification in general might lose steam if/when the Tesla coolness is gone…
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Old 04-24-2023, 08:35 AM   #4072
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I think the definition of a car's "coolness" for car forum type people isn't the same as for the general public.

I saw a lady pull her new Tesla up to a gas station (while I was filling up my STI) and take a selfie. For her it is probably cool to never have to pump gas again, not to have to get dealership oil changes and other ICE maintenance. And cool to be quicker than most cars without trying hard. And Autopilot is cool. And the entertainment system is cool... etc. Whether the car looks cool or not is subjective. I think giant (quasi functional) wings look cool, but only because of rally racing.

But then that gets to why, for me, Tesla as a brand, isn't on a cool trajectory. It is really only because they don't have an official motorsports division. I'll happily take an electric car, but only one that is motorsporty (not appliancey), like something Unplugged Performance builds.

If "Plaid" was Tesla's equivalent of M, AMG, GR, or STI, and you could get a "Plaid" Model 3 for $50k, then it would be cool. And it would need wide wheels and big wing that says "I don't care about electric range, I need all the cornering grip, all of it!".

But ultimately, Tesla will sell millions of cars without anybody on Nasioc, or Autoblog, or Jalopnik, thinking they are cool. Tesla is industrially crushing the other auto makers. I expect them to have *fully* automated production lines within 10 years churning out self driving appliances.
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Old 04-25-2023, 10:50 AM   #4073
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Originally Posted by Hiryu View Post
I personally think the biggest hurt coming for Tesla is when they’re no longer considered the “hip” car to get. Right now they’re the hot car for many people (well, non-enthusiasts, at least). People don’t get excited for a ride in my one-off sports car; they get excited for a ride in the Tesla. “Oh, you just got a new BMW? That’s nice.” “Oh, you just got a Tesla? Wow!!!”

But like every “hip” thing in the history of humankind, and by the very definition, it’s gonna at some point no longer be the cool thing (as hard as that can be to believe when something is at the height of coolness). Elons antics are probably already starting that downward trend…I just read how everybody is announcing that they didn’t pay for their Twitter Blue verification because Elon is tainted goods…

I’m also kinda curious if electrification in general might lose steam if/when the Tesla coolness is gone…
To my eyes Tesla have slipped well into the normal zone, yeah. That's a good thing, but I feel also a sign that they need to change things up, too. I guess they'll do that when enough people are actually taking their money elsewhere. I don't think the appetite for EVs will abate regardless of what Tesla does.

Is there any rumor of a facelift or otherwise newness update coming for any of them? Quick google search didn't turn up much. If they rest on their laurels too long this thread will become "ignore us cause you bored of us"
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Old 04-25-2023, 11:03 AM   #4074
dwf137
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They're pretty much the ultimate appliance of vehicles. They haven't appreciably changed the design of the model s since it came out like 11 years ago. They all still look the same, and Tesla doesn't seem interested in actually redesigning things. Just like a washing machine, I guess it's nice that your decade old car is still nearly identical to the one being sold today, but it really does make the whole experience pretty boring and mundane. Not sure how anyone is excited about buying a new one.
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Old 04-25-2023, 12:35 PM   #4075
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They had somebody spy this, which is supposedly a facelift to the 3:


But yeah, between the lack of updates, ever worsening customer service, arriving competition, and in my opinion, poor design decisions, not being as cool anymore (much like the old Prius, where people didn't want a hybrid, they wanted a Prius...and now nobody wants them. Well, the fourth generation might regain some interest)...Tesla's not doing itself any favors.

And yes, calling them soulless appliances is very cliche. And absolutely correct (I named mine "Soulless").
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