Next Gen STI Canceled

[samagon]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

I wonder why this hasn't been mentioned yet...

Is Japan getting the STI next year?

There's zero mention of it in the SOA US Media Center news release and there was no corresponding press release on Subaru.jp's website. If it was in fact canceled because of our tighter regs and a short shelf life, what would stop Subaru from offering a car for the home market? Unless the home market was never getting one to begin with...nothing.

If they DO offer a car for the home market, it's bound to be announced soon. There's little reason to think Subaru would abandon all that development work because of us. There hasn't been an STI sold in Japan for over two years.

I am going to laugh if Japan gets it and it has an FA24 motor pumped up to 11. Laugh out loud like.

it would be equal levels of funny and awesome.

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[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

The hybrid accelerated better(slight, but better) than it's non-hybrid version and got over 30mpg for city driving with an AWD. It wasn't meant to be "fast" or "fun" like a BRZ. I'd think a BRZ version would have similar increases in similar areas just up a couple/few notches. It would just cost more.....like the Crosstreks.....and people would not be interested enough.

I can floor it, and it goes nowhere. Like I'm going to be rear ended on the highway as I try to change lanes. The hybrid system incorporated does not provide significant thrust at speed. Maybe it is quicker off the line because you don't have the delay of a gas engine, but it's not going to put a smile on anyone's face.

Oh, yea, I sold the PHEV yesterday. Netted almost $10k. 2.5 year lease for basically free.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I can floor it, and it goes nowhere. Like I'm going to be rear ended on the highway as I try to change lanes. The hybrid system incorporated does not provide significant thrust at speed. Maybe it is quicker off the line because you don't have the delay of a gas engine, but it's not going to put a smile on anyone's face.

Oh, yea, I sold the PHEV yesterday. Netted almost $10k. 2.5 year lease for basically free.

Ah. Yeah, I didn't get to drive it on the highway. And the acceleration was from training(mild hybrid) and then told to me by a few that owned Crosstreks before getting the mild hybrid and the PHEV by people I know in areas they sold them. Never thought to ask about highway driving.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

Oh, yea, I sold the PHEV yesterday. Netted almost $10k. 2.5 year lease for basically free.

Nice. Stuff like this, with the current used market prices, is what's tempting me to just trade in my Foz for a WRX and keep that thing forever. I'm being contacted by dealer that they'd give me exactly what I financed it for originally lol I'd have like 17K in positive equity. Get the base model WRX, and add every bell and whistle worth a damn from the factory and still come out with a very comfortable payment less than what I pay now.



But ehh, I dunno. I think the prudent thing to do is just wait. Maybe 2-3 years. This is new year model and by then bugs will be worked out and aftermarket well established. Plus I got a bunch of roadtrips planned this year. WRX will surely get a facelift and who knows maybe a tS variant.
Worth also waiting to see what the Corolla GR offers and pricing. Even though I probably wont end up switching to that. I mean the WRX sedan has even more space..

[samagon]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

Nice. Stuff like this, with the current used market prices, is what's tempting me to just trade in my Foz for a WRX and keep that thing forever. I'm being contacted by dealer that they'd give me exactly what I financed it for originally lol I'd have like 17K in positive equity. Get the base model WRX, and add every bell and whistle worth a damn from the factory and still come out with a very comfortable payment less than what I pay now.



But ehh, I dunno. I think the prudent thing to do is just wait. Maybe 2-3 years. This is new year model and by then bugs will be worked out and aftermarket well established. Plus I got a bunch of roadtrips planned this year. WRX will surely get a facelift and who knows maybe a tS variant.
Worth also waiting to see what the Corolla GR offers and pricing. Even though I probably wont end up switching to that. I mean the WRX sedan has even more space..

I got an email from my dealer for my '18 BRZ saying the carfax was $28,000 and they wanted me to trade.

I mean, A: they'll probably find some reason to not offer me the value stated in the email, and 2: not today satan, not today: the thing still puts a smile on my face every day.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

Nice. Stuff like this, with the current used market prices, is what's tempting me to just trade in my Foz for a WRX and keep that thing forever. I'm being contacted by dealer that they'd give me exactly what I financed it for originally lol I'd have like 17K in positive equity. Get the base model WRX, and add every bell and whistle worth a damn from the factory and still come out with a very comfortable payment less than what I pay now.
space..

For me, it made sense bc it's a lease and this positive equity scenario doesn't usually exist in the normal world.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by samagon

I got an email from my dealer for my '18 BRZ saying the carfax was $28,000 and they wanted me to trade.

I mean, A: they'll probably find some reason to not offer me the value stated in the email, and 2: not today satan, not today: the thing still puts a smile on my face every day.

Lol yeah same here. I got my Foz modded but I have all the OEM parts so I can put those back together. Yeah I mean dealer can low ball and since I truly don’t need to trade I can just say screw you. It’s a great position to be in. Plus can always wait to end of a calendar year that’s when they need to sell you the car and you can get better deal. Bargaining is still on the table. Can try it and otherwise yeah, no loss still enjoy the BRZ. That’s how I feel about my Foz. Sure it’s not the sporty manual fun like my STI was (which I truly miss and regret selling), but it’s still a much better road trip car and taken me in many many adventures to places I could never have made it in an STI/WRX and it’s also a great daily driver.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

For me, it made sense bc it's a lease and this positive equity scenario doesn't usually exist in the normal world.

Thankfully I’ve always had positive equity in all the cars I’ve bought. So it just keeps going. I know I’m gonna have positive equity in this one if I decide to trade down the line so its a win win.

So are you getting the WRX?

[Russ_G93]

Subaru claims "Oh the STI is our Flagship, we must do this because *Whiney baby sounds*"

Its all just one hasty excuse. If they wanted to ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY, you would see Hybrid Foresters / Imprezas / Outbacks / Legacies as Trim level options.

You wouldnt axe a car for "Being what its supposed to be." Like a said, sounds like an excuse for not wanting to pay for the distribution of the STI because they have a WRX already, theyre out of positive gain revenue due to the sporadic shutdowns and reduced produced inventory, and it sounds like they want to be the first Japanese Brand to drop an affordable Hybrid Sport compact.. Even though... NOT one Enthusiast (Someone that actually buys STI's) asked for it.

I bet you anything their focus group consisted of Older gen people who do not drive stick and Subaru's question was "How can we make you interested in this car" and their first sentence was "It should be like the Crosstrek."

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

Thankfully I’ve always had positive equity in all the cars I’ve bought. So it just keeps going. I know I’m gonna have positive equity in this one if I decide to trade down the line so its a win win.

So are you getting the WRX?

Nope. Ordered a MY22 Alfa Romeo Giulia Veloce Q4. My plan was a 24-month affair with an Italian before getting the SGP-STI.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I had a 2018 STI. It's 99% the same center differential as 2017. The difference was the plates were actuated via digital/electronic means and not electromagnetic. It's still the fan favorite planetary gear differential with DCCD.

The 49:61 bias diff in every STI since 2006 is severely nerfed. Outside of a track environment it makes practically no difference to the vehicle's handling. The Blobeye STi would oversteer under throttle. It had some great balance and is the center diff that made the STI name a legend of the AWD world.

The nerfed diff was fast on a track, but on the street it only made a very minor improvement to balance while at full boost.. something impossible to take advantage of on the street, except for full-throttle left-turn launches. It's completely useless on an autocross track or back road. As I've said numerous times here.. trading in my WRX for the STI was a huge mistake. I spent two days outrunning Porsches at a PCA event at CMP and tracing glorious perfectly balanced 4-wheel drifts around the low speed last half of the full track.. but on the street it was just heavier and caused unpredictable balance issues in inclement weather. I'm sure it's better with AYC, but so is every FWD car with AYC.

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

***8216;22 Golf R cannot overdrive the rear axle. All VW awd systems are 4Motion, it's just branding. The new system for the R is not Haldex because it is from Magna. That being said, yes it is still FWD-biased, doesn't have a center differential and only sends up to 50% of torque to the rear axle under above normal conditions. In a bad snowy situation, like I saw in VT this past weekend, I'd prefer a more robust system but I'm sure it's fun to drive.

I appreciate the correction about the lack of an overdriven rear.

As for robustness, APR seems to have no trouble sending VAG cars with the Magna system triple the stock HP down the drag strip. You can watch TheTopher ice race a new Golf R... and it's quite clear that there's no lack of response or control.

The STI is not designed for snowy conditions. The diffs are designed to put power down on dry or wet pavement.. on the track. Helical diffs need resistance to work, and they do next to nothing on low traction surfaces. Only the '04 with it's clutch-type diffs holds any advantage over a WRX in snowy conditions.

I totally get that people who spent $8-$10k over the cost of a WRX on an STI want to believe that they bought a road-going PistenBully, but it's all placebo.

Now, if you've modified your STI to put down 400whp, that's a different story. The strengthened driveline and marginal rear bias make a huge difference in big power applications.. but the rub is that it's still an EJ25 waiting to spin a bearing and/or crack ringlands under the hood, and you could spend the extra money budgeted for repair bills on a real performance car.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

You lost me. You expected the STI to come with the WRX gearbox and AWD setup because there's no difference? Same power too? How bout the brakes? Same? All the same. Well yeah, of course the STI was killed. Why bother at all.

Sorry I lost you. I've noticed that a lot of my posts on here lately result in folks missing my point entirely.. I blame trying to post while busy and on mobile.

What I'm saying is that ever since Subaru nerfed the rear bias in the STI and bumped up the power in the WRX (2006 STI got the nerfed center diff while the WRX got the EJ25 torque bump), the STI has been a waste of money. For the vast majority of STI buyers, a lightly modded WRX would be faster and more enjoyable while using less gas. The STI's performance envelope is barely any larger than the stock WRX's. The extra weight and drivetrain losses in the STI eat up the majority of the extra power and the lack of low-end torque makes the STI a dog off the line when you aren't launching it.
Then there's the loads of fuel the STI consumes: which means Subaru needed to increase the wheelbase and sell 11ty Billion anemic Impreza/Crosstreks to meet CAFE (which already penalizes Subaru for having their engines overhanging the front axle).

The brakes never were anything special. I know the Subaru fanbois creme their jeans every time they see Brembo through the spokes of their wheels, but in reality the Brembo calipers Subaru buys are the cheapest, heaviest, most flexy fixed calipers that Brembo makes. VW and Honda put bigger rotors on their FWD offerings, and for a time Hyundai was fitting Monobloc Brembos on the Genesis Coupe Track Package (which I had the pleasure to autocross back to back, stock to stock, with my buddy.. and the difference in brake modulation/pedal feel was immense). An AP Racing setup on a WRX is cheaper and far more of an upgrade than springing for an STI.

So, no. The STI hasn't been a worthwhile car to buy since 2005. We had 2 years of meaningful STis in North America followed by a bunch of fools parting with their money and claiming it "feels" better and it "handles" better purely because that's what they spent their wad on. I am in recovery.. my name is Calamity Jesus (formerly Beaverboy) and I am a Subaru Fanboi.. I spent way too much money (even at a $28k firesale) on an STI and found it to be a massive downgrade over the WRX (yes, even my 2008 WRX). Anyone with any objectivity that has driven other performance cars has moved on from Subaru. The WRX still presents a fine value, but the STI has been a huge dissapointment and I'm not at all sad to see it die in 2022. It died 17 years ago.. y'all are only just noticing.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

Nope. Ordered a MY22 Alfa Romeo Giulia Veloce Q4. My plan was a 24-month affair with an Italian before getting the SGP-STI.

Nice congrats! I’m sure it’ll be very enjoyable.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

Subaru claims "Oh the STI is our Flagship, we must do this because *Whiney baby sounds*"

Its all just one hasty excuse. If they wanted to ACTUALLY MAKE MONEY, you would see Hybrid Foresters / Imprezas / Outbacks / Legacies as Trim level options.

You wouldnt axe a car for "Being what its supposed to be." Like a said, sounds like an excuse for not wanting to pay for the distribution of the STI because they have a WRX already, theyre out of positive gain revenue due to the sporadic shutdowns and reduced produced inventory, and it sounds like they want to be the first Japanese Brand to drop an affordable Hybrid Sport compact.. Even though... NOT one Enthusiast (Someone that actually buys STI's) asked for it.

I bet you anything their focus group consisted of Older gen people who do not drive stick and Subaru's question was "How can we make you interested in this car" and their first sentence was "It should be like the Crosstrek."

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

The 49:61 bias diff in every STI since 2006 is severely nerfed. Outside of a track environment it makes practically no difference to the vehicle's handling. The Blobeye STi would oversteer under throttle. It had some great balance and is the center diff that made the STI name a legend of the AWD world.

I appreciate the correction about the lack of an overdriven rear.

As for robustness, APR seems to have no trouble sending VAG cars with the Magna system triple the stock HP down the drag strip. You can watch TheTopher ice race a new Golf R... and it's quite clear that there's no lack of response or control.

I don't have any experience with the 31:65 center diff'd STi. I did enjoy my 2018 STI, besides the suspension.

When I say robust, I mean pure grunt in a bad low traction situation. A mechanical planetary gear center differential, and the VC for WRX, is better than a clutchpack, which slips by definition. I have seen videos of journalists playing around with the Golf R and then it goes into limp mode to save the clutch pack due to overheating. I don't mean any side to side action, just the ability to send power to another axle. STI will destroy its diff before giving up.

Originally Posted by mcarb002

Nice congrats! I'm sure it'll be very enjoyable.

Thanks I wanted one Italian ICE before they go extinct. I just hope I don't get sick of the automatic too quickly (I really hate automatics).

[xander31]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

Sorry I lost you. I've noticed that a lot of my posts on here lately result in folks missing my point entirely.. I blame trying to post while busy and on mobile.

What I'm saying is that ever since Subaru nerfed the rear bias in the STI and bumped up the power in the WRX (2006 STI got the nerfed center diff while the WRX got the EJ25 torque bump), the STI has been a waste of money. For the vast majority of STI buyers, a lightly modded WRX would be faster and more enjoyable while using less gas. The STI's performance envelope is barely any larger than the stock WRX's. The extra weight and drivetrain losses in the STI eat up the majority of the extra power and the lack of low-end torque makes the STI a dog off the line when you aren't launching it.
Then there's the loads of fuel the STI consumes: which means Subaru needed to increase the wheelbase and sell 11ty Billion anemic Impreza/Crosstreks to meet CAFE (which already penalizes Subaru for having their engines overhanging the front axle).

The brakes never were anything special. I know the Subaru fanbois creme their jeans every time they see Brembo through the spokes of their wheels, but in reality the Brembo calipers Subaru buys are the cheapest, heaviest, most flexy fixed calipers that Brembo makes. VW and Honda put bigger rotors on their FWD offerings, and for a time Hyundai was fitting Monobloc Brembos on the Genesis Coupe Track Package (which I had the pleasure to autocross back to back, stock to stock, with my buddy.. and the difference in brake modulation/pedal feel was immense). An AP Racing setup on a WRX is cheaper and far more of an upgrade than springing for an STI.

So, no. The STI hasn't been a worthwhile car to buy since 2005. We had 2 years of meaningful STis in North America followed by a bunch of fools parting with their money and claiming it "feels" better and it "handles" better purely because that's what they spent their wad on. I am in recovery.. my name is Calamity Jesus (formerly Beaverboy) and I am a Subaru Fanboi.. I spent way too much money (even at a $28k firesale) on an STI and found it to be a massive downgrade over the WRX (yes, even my 2008 WRX). Anyone with any objectivity that has driven other performance cars has moved on from Subaru. The WRX still presents a fine value, but the STI has been a huge dissapointment and I'm not at all sad to see it die in 2022. It died 17 years ago.. y'all are only just noticing.

I created an account just to say thank you! while I have no idea if any of what you are saying is true, it made me feel better. I have a deposit down at my local dealer for a 2023 STI that is obviously not being produced anymore and I was heartbroken. It's been the affordable everyday sports car of my dreams, so the idea of getting a WRX instead has been a little bit of a hard pill to swallow. so if any of what you are saying is true then it might be easier for me to accept if i do go through with a 2022 or 2023 wrx... that back bumper though, man.... i dunno LOL, was hoping the STI would have some kind of remedy for that. I guess i will just wait it out for now and reconsider my options.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

When I say robust, I mean pure grunt in a bad low traction situation. A mechanical planetary gear center differential, and the VC for WRX, is better than a clutchpack, which slips by definition. I have seen videos of journalists playing around with the Golf R and then it goes into limp mode to save the clutch pack due to overheating. I don't mean any side to side action, just the ability to send power to another axle. STI will destroy its diff before giving up.

All the Golf R needs is a PTU cooler, just like the RS, and have at it. And either car you'd have to beat senseless to get to this point. So that's track driving, long sessions in the heat or a long tom foolery session in the snow where you are doing doughnuts. Real world driving, it's not even a concern. Twisty driving not a concern. What journalists do with a press car vs. an owner, is night and day. Don't believe the hype it's a sequel.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by Pre

All the Golf R needs is a PTU cooler, just like the RS, and have at it. And either car you'd have to beat senseless to get to this point. So that's track driving, long sessions in the heat or a long tom foolery session in the snow where you are doing doughnuts. Real world driving, it's not even a concern. Twisty driving not a concern. What journalists do with a press car vs. an owner, is night and day. Don't believe the hype it's a sequel.

I hear you. I'm moving to a clutch-pack based Alfa Giulia awd system. She's 100% RWD until slip, so I'll see how it goes.

I never really got the Crosstrek into bad situations and it had a MPT also.

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

Now, if you've modified your STI to put down 400whp, that's a different story. The strengthened driveline and marginal rear bias make a huge difference in big power applications.. but the rub is that it's still an EJ25 waiting to spin a bearing and/or crack ringlands under the hood, and you could spend the extra money budgeted for repair bills on a real performance car.

We are talking about an STI with a pumped up FA24. The STI drivetrain is made for a 350 lb ft down low engine. You are stuck in 2014 arguing 2014 things. And I was right there with you. This car had potential we haven't seen before...and never will.

Is the WRX a good alternative? Depends. The 6MT seems like it can handle decent amounts of WHP and TQ. What we could have seen from an STI anyway. And at those levels and a 200 pound weight benefit, the STI would need to gain quite a bit more power to keep up with that lighter WRX. So is a warranty with warranty parts on a new car worth more than a warranty killed tuner new car? That's been the argument since 2006.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

When I say robust, I mean pure grunt in a bad low traction situation.

Are you rock crawling? Getting out of a low traction situation shouldn't require grunt, it requires finesse. The Golf R and STI can exhibit neutral handling by pushing torque to the rear outside wheel while at max engine and gear torque (1st gear) on dry pavement.. how much more grunt do you require? On the STI you need some traction on the inside tire as well, or it'll just spin while the Golf R can direct all torque to a single rear wheel. Either way, nobody is getting stuck in the snow & ice with any modern AWD car, so the whole thing is moot. Then again, every STI buyer seems to encounter an incline roller test and a life-or-death street race in the rain against an evil SRT-4 on their daily morning commute and simply wouldn't survive without an STI.

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

A mechanical planetary gear center differential, and the VC for WRX, is better than a clutchpack, which slips by definition.

Real differentials are certainly simpler and more reliable in a track situation.. but the modern clutchpacks aren't exactly Real-Time AWD from an old CRV or the Viscous Coupling from a Mazda MPV. The diff in a manual WRX is good at finesse for ice.. and the VC is a cheap and simple backup for mud and aggressive dirt driving.. but it's also very reactive and not at all smooth.

The STI's programming is just as pro-active and clutchpack dependent as the new Golf R's, just with the benefit of a (very weak) rear bias. In order to benefit snow traction and keep the torque going to the axle under the car's weight (ie: front axle) you need to roll that DCCD forward.. which means you're depending on a clutchpack locking up to transfer torque . The problem on the street is that you can never turn the STI's energy-sucking drivetrain off. It's always there turning fuel into heat inside the diffs.

If I were going to buy a full-time track car to pound on, the STI's center diff would be a benefit over the Golf R.. but a 5.0 Mustang would be a far better investment since the badly tuned engine, power-sapping drivetrain, and small tires can't compete with a cheap RWD car on track. You rarely see STIs as track cars because they're rediculously expensive and failure prone for the moderate speeds they achieve.

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I have seen videos of journalists playing around with the Golf R and then it goes into limp mode to save the clutch pack due to overheating.

You've seen this with the MK8? I get that the Haldex in the Mk6 had problems.

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

We are talking about an STI with a pumped up FA24. The STI drivetrain is made for a 350 lb ft down low engine. You are stuck in 2014 arguing 2014 things. And I was right there with you. This car had potential we haven't seen before...and never will.

Is the WRX a good alternative? Depends. The 6MT seems like it can handle decent amounts of WHP and TQ. What we could have seen from an STI anyway. And at those levels and a 200 pound weight benefit, the STI would need to gain quite a bit more power to keep up with that lighter WRX. So is a warranty with warranty parts on a new car worth more than a warranty killed tuner new car? That's been the argument since 2006.

Problem is FA24DIT can't make 320 hp and be compliant.
But, this is not a new problem; this started with FA20DIT making nearly 300 hp and 300 ft-lb in Japan but only 268 / 258 here. There was already an issue then.
Now, fast forward to today, Subaru goes to a larger bore knowing full well they already had trouble with compliance and the smaller bore.
This is stupid because a larger bore, given identical stroke, makes things harder, not easier !
The end result is a 20% increase in displacement with nearly the exact same power envelop as the last USDM FA20DIT !
In what world can this thing make STI power levels and stay compliant?
Subaru's been taking us for fools since the 2015 STI came out with an EJ257 under the hood. But, people lapped it up anyway.
So, here we are.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

We are talking about an STI with a pumped up FA24. The STI drivetrain is made for a 350 lb ft down low engine. You are stuck in 2014 arguing 2014 things. And I was right there with you. This car had potential we haven't seen before...and never will.

Sure.. sure.. and the 2008 STI will have 400hp. The fact that the FA hasn't been a reliable high power engine in the hands of tuners doesn't mean anything when faced with the prospect of a vaporware factory engine from Subaru.

I'm sure Subaru decided to keep the WRX at 271hp because of a gentlemanly decision to not outdo the competition, and not because they couldn't tune the FA24 to meet emissions, minimize rev hang, and make big power. /s

[4S-TURBO]

Doesn't cost me a cent to see Subaru underdeliver. The same as if they don't deliver. But to see them overdeliver with a joint development effort with Toyota and some crazy head/fueling turbo work, that would potentially cost me many cents.

[neg_matnik]

Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO

Doesn't cost me a cent to see Subaru underdeliver. The same as if they don't deliver. But to see them overdeliver with a joint development effort with Toyota and some crazy head/fueling turbo work, that would potentially cost me many cents.

Maybe I'm way off base, but the whole FA series 86mm destroking situation mainly benefits the twins' N/A engines but it does nothing good for a compliant turbo mill.
If I were Subaru, I would have turbocharged FB20 to begin with, smaller bore, longer stroke. Couldn't have been worse than the 6100 RPM redline of FA24DIT and would certainly have been better on the emissions and fuel economy front.
But, obviously, they had to try and reuse the same FA20 and FA24 shortblocks across multiple models; that's the only way to make the whole thing financially viable.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

Are you rock crawling? Getting out of a low traction situation shouldn't require grunt, it requires finesse. The Golf R and STI can exhibit neutral handling by pushing torque to the rear outside wheel while at max engine and gear torque (1st gear) on dry pavement.. how much more grunt do you require? On the STI you need some traction on the inside tire as well, or it'll just spin while the Golf R can direct all torque to a single rear wheel. Either way, nobody is getting stuck in the snow & ice with any modern AWD car, so the whole thing is moot. Then again, every STI buyer seems to encounter an incline roller test and a life-or-death street race in the rain against an evil SRT-4 on their daily morning commute and simply wouldn't survive without an STI.


Real differentials are certainly simpler and more reliable in a track situation.. but the modern clutchpacks aren't exactly Real-Time AWD from an old CRV or the Viscous Coupling from a Mazda MPV. The diff in a manual WRX is good at finesse for ice.. and the VC is a cheap and simple backup for mud and aggressive dirt driving.. but it's also very reactive and not at all smooth.

The STI's programming is just as pro-active and clutchpack dependent as the new Golf R's, just with the benefit of a (very weak) rear bias. In order to benefit snow traction and keep the torque going to the axle under the car's weight (ie: front axle) you need to roll that DCCD forward.. which means you're depending on a clutchpack locking up to transfer torque . The problem on the street is that you can never turn the STI's energy-sucking drivetrain off. It's always there turning fuel into heat inside the diffs.

If I were going to buy a full-time track car to pound on, the STI's center diff would be a benefit over the Golf R.. but a 5.0 Mustang would be a far better investment since the badly tuned engine, power-sapping drivetrain, and small tires can't compete with a cheap RWD car on track. You rarely see STIs as track cars because they're rediculously expensive and failure prone for the moderate speeds they achieve.

You've seen this with the MK8? I get that the Haldex in the Mk6 had problems.

I don't mean grunt when driving around, I mean when first starting off. I literally watched a BMW X3M Comp w/ brand new all-seasons (ok, ok, I know wrong choice of tire), get pushed by 5 people as he couldn't get up/out of a steep driveway with snow on it in Vermont this past weekend. That has a clutch-pack at the transmission and then funnels power front/rear. Now, could that have been more tires, than anything else? Sure, probably. My Tesla w/ snow tires and dual mode AWD drove up it w/o anyone helping.

I also recall climbing an icy driveway in my 2011 WRX (w/ snow tires), slipping backwards down it a little, and having to cook the center diff. She eventually clawed up it. That was the iciest day I can ever remember, I literally turned around and went home.

I like mechanical center differentials. They work when you desperately need them. Clutch-packs, are probably perfect 99% of the time.