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Old 04-12-2016, 01:20 PM   #301
legav05
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Because every aspect of the cars have been designed specifically as rebuttal points (to realists) or braggart quips (to dreamers), and weak people will do anything to be in the safe part of the herd.
I suppose they should design it to do neither of those because ???. The stated goal of the company is to advance the transition to electric transport. Sounds like they're carrying that out effectively.
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:00 PM   #302
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In 2015 Model S decimated the competitors market share in it's class, followed up by over 325,000 reservations for the Model 3 in 1 week. That's nearly all the Camry sales for a year. Further more, anecdotally, I have yet to meet someone who doesn't want one, the few that do change their minds within 5 minutes of being a passenger. I even have some staunch conservative friends who are now reservation holders of the Model 3.

So you're still opposed to reality I see. Every car in your neighborhood could be a Tesla and you'd still think "no one wants one".
Legav old buddy, I have seen the 'decimated' sales figures and they are laughable. First the S class Mercedes outsell the Tesla. However unlike you I include all S class Mercedes in the comparison. If you put all Tesla model S class sales up against all Mercedes S class sales the merc wins. Here is a hint, the CLS counts as well.

And I have always felt the Model S competes with the 5 series more in terms of size, but I have to research that for facts. IF that is the case, the 5er almost doubles the model S sales.

As for the deposits... Well we will see how many of those 325000 people who put deposits down on a 3 want to wait 2-3 years for a car?

I have ridden in an S and I still do not want one. (rode to lunch) The biggest turn off was the flat screen glued to the dash. I just do not like it.

I get it you are heavily invested in them. Good for you. I hope you do well. But there is no compelling reason to get a 3 over any other mid sized sedan with an actual trunk.

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Old 04-12-2016, 02:03 PM   #303
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I am not sure you get the point. You keep explaining why people CAN use the Tesla this or that. Which is just math, and makes sense. Fair enough, but the simple fact is a vast majority still do not WANT one.
Exactly, the car market is so driven by WANTS not needs. It's the reason why a new record of 17.5 million vehicles were sold in 2016. Of those sales, how many were logical, need based decisions? The number 1 & 2 selling vehicles were the F-150 and Silverado along with the hot crossover/ SUV segment. For a majority of those sales, it is probably an illogical daily driver decision. Plus a lot of people buy a new car to have something new and fresh looking or the car is feeling old ( dents, paint, interior wear and rattles, features ) but mechanically still plenty reliable with little maintenance.

I'm not a hater of EV's and interested to see how the segment evolves and how a relatively new company can compete and how the rest of the industry responds. One thing that Americans like is variety even if they are following the herd. I have a deposit for a Model 3 but it is a "why not" decision since it is refundable and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It will be a WANT buying decision and have time to see what end product will actually be. I still enjoy manual transmission cars even in traffic and DD so this is a factor for me. A better decision would be not to have a $35-40k loan and payments. I don't purchase cars in this price range even if I can afford it.

Last edited by subyski; 04-12-2016 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:39 PM   #304
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I am not sure you get the point. You keep explaining why people CAN use the Tesla this or that. Which is just math, and makes sense. Fair enough, but the simple fact is a vast majority still do not WANT one. A nice omelet pan makes sense as well, makes a great omelet, but it is not necessary and may just do not want it. When choosing an appliance you need something to set it apart. Why would a given appliance shopper choose a 3 over a Camry. Appliance shopper mind you. The 30-50k crowd is not the same demographic as the 100k dollar crowd. Just saying.

A model 3 would fit my range needs just fine, but the trunk is too small, and just do not like it over the competition. Given what you can buy for say 35000 - 40000 dollars, well there is quite a bit to choose from.

Still I think the take rate on these will be pretty good. I think Tesla has made its move, and it is time to see how long the Hype machine can keep them in the spot light, especially after the Bolt comes out. Watching a market segment being born is interesting.
Then they needn't buy one and choose something else so why the hate? You think someone is preaching to you and nobody is. A product choice is here. If you aren't interested then don't buy it, skip it, and why post in this thread? To debate it? To state your anti-ev stance yet again? It's a product choice that some like. Don't like it then don't buy it. Very easy. Just skip electric cars until you're in the grave. You'll have that option. Why piss in someone else's Cheerios?
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:56 PM   #305
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Exactly, the car market is so driven by WANTS not needs. It's the reason why a new record of 17.5 million vehicles were sold in 2016. Of those sales, how many were logical, need based decisions? The number 1 & 2 selling vehicles were the F-150 and Silverado along with the hot crossover/ SUV segment. For a majority of those sales, it is probably an illogical daily driver decision. Plus a lot of people buy a new car to have something new and fresh looking or the car is feeling old ( dents, paint, interior wear and rattles, features ) but mechanically still plenty reliable with little maintenance.

I'm not a hater of EV's and interested to see how the segment evolves and how a relatively new company can compete and how the rest of the industry responds. One thing that Americans like is variety even if they are following the herd. I have a deposit for a Model 3 but it is a "why not" decision since it is refundable and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It will be a WANT buying decision and have time to see what end product will actually be. I still enjoy manual transmission cars even in traffic and DD so this is a factor for me. A better decision would be not to have a $35-40k loan and payments. I don't purchase cars in this price range even if I can afford it.
It's not about following the herd IMO. Electric means you can fuel at home if you are a homeowner. Fuel wise, it's also much less expensive than gasoline. Some much less, some free.

The Tesla is popular because it doesn't look my Leaf. It looks like a normal automobile. Something Nissan and Chevy haven't figured out yet. Why make it look like a geekazoid car? Just make it look normal. Teslas are also pretty quick/fast for a DD. And the 85/90D is stupid fast. Decreased maintenance compared to ICE (significant) also.

So there are a number of factors why people are so interested. The Teslas have been very expensive for the common working person. This new one is affordable for many, and a significant decrease in price compared to the S so it's not a big surprise that there were so many deposits. The only people beotching about "herd" and such statements are people that are antis. Let them whine like little girls at a sweet sixteen party. They are just being children. I drive an EV so I actually have experience unlike the peanut picking gallery. The decreased maintenance is awesome. Fueling at home is awesome. The lower run cost is awesome. I power my DD for free and the only maintenance I've done is rotate the tires. I don't expect any EV to be a track car, or a weekend sportscar. It's a DD, and a fantastic one even if mine looks like a big bag of dicks.
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:16 PM   #306
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Flicks light switch

Got your attention?

Cleaned up.

And FYI Scrappy, the 3 has two trunks. Figure that into your numbers
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Old 04-13-2016, 07:34 AM   #307
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If you don't like it move on. Record sells on the first for any product and no one wants it .... Looks amazing and works for the majority of the population, USA made, whats not to like...
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:33 AM   #308
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If you don't like it move on. Record sells on the first for any product and no one wants it .... Looks amazing and works for the majority of the population, USA made, whats not to like...
The ones that say "Don't like it, not interested" then they come into the thread every day of the week.
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:33 AM   #309
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The only people beotching about "herd" and such statements are people that are antis. Let them whine like little girls at a sweet sixteen party. They are just being children. I drive an EV so I actually have experience unlike the peanut picking gallery.
Sorry, I'm not an anti EV. I like the idea and determining if it is something I want. I appreciate your EV experience and you had me realize different aspects I didn't understand previously. When I mention 'herd' in my statement, what I meant is when people gravitate to a particular segment they still want variety and some will even choose a product that is not the popular choice (I.e the 7+ different midsize sedans even if Camry and Accord dominate the segment). So this is an opportunity for other manufacturers to respond and create variety that Americans still want. For me a model 3 will probably be a good DD but still need a larger ICE vehicle as I go places at longer distances that don't have or very few charging stations, heck even not many gas stations. I probably wouldn't want to wait long in between to get a full charge.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:11 PM   #310
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The ones that say "Don't like it, not interested" then they come into the thread every day of the week.
To get back on topic...

How fast and how expensive do you guys think the P series is going to be?

I am for sure getting dual motors, air suspension and autopilot for my car.
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:52 PM   #311
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To get back on topic...

How fast and how expensive do you guys think the P series is going to be?

I am for sure getting dual motors, air suspension and autopilot for my car.
I am asking that question myself. How much am I willing to spend? What is my cap? I'm thinking a P/D model with some balls is gonna be 50k.

As far as how fast, well they/he has stated less than 6 seconds to 60. That's a base. I don't think it far fetched to believe less than 5 seconds on a dual motor, maybe even 4 on the high end. I doubt they'll offer Model S type performance with it. They have to separate the two or they'll cannibalize their own sales. I think a fully optioned 3 is going to be 5-10k under a base S. I read they are increasing the price of the S, and this is probably why.
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:54 PM   #312
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That's a hard one to guess. Based on the S configuration there is a $33k price adder going from base to P. For the P3, maybe ~$25k adder which would slot it just under the M3.

For a dual motor and auto pilot on the S, this adds $7500, so maybe a little less on the 3. I think the suspension will be similar with a $2500 option.

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Old 04-13-2016, 04:20 PM   #313
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As far as how fast, well they/he has stated less than 6 seconds to 60. That's a base. I don't think it far fetched to believe less than 5 seconds on a dual motor, maybe even 4 on the high end.
Going from 1 motor to 2 motor only shaves 0.3 seconds on the S per Tesla so I would expect maybe mid to low 5's on the 3 AWD with base battery pack.
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Old 04-13-2016, 05:31 PM   #314
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Going from 1 motor to 2 motor only shaves 0.3 seconds on the S per Tesla so I would expect maybe mid to low 5's on the 3 AWD with base battery pack.
I'm talking in general terms dude. Let's not pick the peanuts out of shat.
I'm talking a P model dual motor, higher trimmed option. On the S if you want the more performance optioned models, they are dual motor versions, which was my point.
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Old 04-13-2016, 05:46 PM   #315
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I'm talking in general terms dude. Let's not pick the peanuts out of shat.
I'm talking a P model dual motor, higher trimmed option. On the S if you want the more performance optioned models, they are dual motor versions, which was my point.
Sorry I misinterpreted you comment dude. How I interpreted your comment on speed was going from base RWD to base dual motor to P (since they are dual motor standard). Since you meant P/D dual motor only, then low 4's are possible with an upgraded pack.

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Old 04-13-2016, 09:04 PM   #316
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All I want is Autopilot and the full glass roof. Small battery and rwd will be perfectly sufficient.
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Old 04-13-2016, 09:08 PM   #317
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How much more electrons can I suck in with a CAI?

Will it void my warranty?

How many dead bodies can you fit in the frunk?



Seriously though, with prices on Leafs being what they are, I am starting to wonder if we will see people tinkering with them for more power / range etc....
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Old 04-13-2016, 11:25 PM   #318
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As a 2 car family with an Expedition EL and a garage, I can't wait to have a Bolt or Model 3 as our 2nd car. It will be nice to just plug-in when I get home and never worry about stopping for gas or oil changes.
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Old 04-14-2016, 06:20 PM   #319
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I am asking that question myself. How much am I willing to spend? What is my cap? I'm thinking a P/D model with some balls is gonna be 50k.

As far as how fast, well they/he has stated less than 6 seconds to 60. That's a base. I don't think it far fetched to believe less than 5 seconds on a dual motor, maybe even 4 on the high end. I doubt they'll offer Model S type performance with it. They have to separate the two or they'll cannibalize their own sales. I think a fully optioned 3 is going to be 5-10k under a base S. I read they are increasing the price of the S, and this is probably why.
I don't think the S will be reserved for performance, just size and features. I would be surprised if the top-end 3 couldn't do 0-60 in the 2's.
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Old 04-21-2016, 02:56 PM   #320
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I'd be semi interested if they'd go hybrid. I've been stranded by a pure EV, really sucks balls to wait for 2.5 hrs for a tow at midnight or to not be able to find a charge station when he eventually picks you finally getting home at 4 am after searching for a station and getting enough charge to limp home.

That being said the Sonata Hybrid has been my favorite electrified vehicle tested to date. has a sport mode, corners flat, and puts a smile on my face.
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Old 04-21-2016, 03:47 PM   #321
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I'd be semi interested if they'd go hybrid.
That ship has sailed. Tesla will NEVER build a hybrid.

Quote:
I've been stranded by a pure EV, really sucks balls to wait for 2.5 hrs for a tow at midnight or to not be able to find a charge station when he eventually picks you finally getting home at 4 am after searching for a station and getting enough charge to limp home.

That being said the Sonata Hybrid has been my favorite electrified vehicle tested to date. has a sport mode, corners flat, and puts a smile on my face.
With a doubling of supercharger stations and quadrupling of HPWC destination chargers by end of 2017, this really isn't a problem anymore. That's not even including public charging stations. If anyone hasn't checked lately, you should - because public stations are almost everywhere.

Before my Tesla was delivered I created an "emergency kit" that would basically allow me to plug any type of 120 or 240V outlet (there are dozens), even if they were far away. Today, I fully expect I will NEVER use that kit. Even I was caught off-guard by the rate of supercharger, HPWC, and public charger deployments. It's just _everywhere_. The only way to run out of charge will be to either push your luck, or intentionally, like a certain guy name John Broder that drove in circles around a supercharger trying to kill his battery to prove a point, or Top Gear, who never ran out of battery but just pretended they did.
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Old 04-21-2016, 04:29 PM   #322
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That ship has sailed. Tesla will NEVER build a hybrid.



With a doubling of supercharger stations and quadrupling of HPWC destination chargers by end of 2017, this really isn't a problem anymore. That's not even including public charging stations. If anyone hasn't checked lately, you should - because public stations are almost everywhere.

Before my Tesla was delivered I created an "emergency kit" that would basically allow me to plug any type of 120 or 240V outlet (there are dozens), even if they were far away. Today, I fully expect I will NEVER use that kit. Even I was caught off-guard by the rate of supercharger, HPWC, and public charger deployments. It's just _everywhere_. The only way to run out of charge will be to either push your luck, or intentionally, like a certain guy name John Broder that drove in circles around a supercharger trying to kill his battery to prove a point, or Top Gear, who never ran out of battery but just pretended they did.

Hard to plug into an outlet on an I-5 exit ramp. I don't know how prevalent EVs are out where you live, here they are every where, charging stations are not. Seattle is the smug capitol of the US after all, finding an empty charge station while out and about here is damn near impossible. Luckily the wife and I are auto journalists, and as such the manufacturer picked up the towing charges for us, if not that little adventure would have cost about 700$.
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Old 04-21-2016, 04:46 PM   #323
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Hard to plug into an outlet on an I-5 exit ramp. I don't know how prevalent EVs are out where you live, here they are every where, charging stations are not. Seattle is the smug capitol of the US after all, finding an empty charge station while out and about here is damn near impossible. Luckily the wife and I are auto journalists, and as such the manufacturer picked up the towing charges for us, if not that little adventure would have cost about 700$.
plugshare.com
chargepoint.com
www.teslamotors.com/destination-charging

I just counted 13 L2 or DC charging stations near I5 from south to north of seattle, not including all the chargers off the path. I don't have an exact count, but if I eyeball it, looks like 30-40.

Supercharger install is planned just north of downtown by end of 2016, looks like too.
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Old 04-21-2016, 11:09 PM   #324
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plugshare.com
chargepoint.com
www.teslamotors.com/destination-charging

I just counted 13 L2 or DC charging stations near I5 from south to north of seattle, not including all the chargers off the path. I don't have an exact count, but if I eyeball it, looks like 30-40.

Supercharger install is planned just north of downtown by end of 2016, looks like too.
There's ALOT of pure EVs here. I almost never see an empty station. Teslas are becoming as common as your base 3 series, in fact in this area they are the new 3 series, just like scuBrahyoos are the new Vtach!! racetard cars. I am completely terrified of the model X dropping for all the oblivious space case soccer moms to drive.

Super car acceleration, sherman tank weight, distracted driver. FML
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Old 04-22-2016, 02:39 PM   #325
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There's ALOT of pure EVs here. I almost never see an empty station. Teslas are becoming as common as your base 3 series, in fact in this area they are the new 3 series, just like scuBrahyoos are the new Vtach!! racetard cars. I am completely terrified of the model X dropping for all the oblivious space case soccer moms to drive.

Super car acceleration, sherman tank weight, distracted driver. FML
This was the point of Teslas email a few months back, people hogging charge stations. Don't park there all day "charging" get your charge and move on so other people can use them.
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