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Old 02-10-2020, 03:14 PM   #26
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What was the release? MT?
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deanstevenson View Post
Wow, I had not even thought of that potential. They could release the 4 cylinder as a Celica and retain the 6 cylinder as the Supra. That's an interesting take.

I'll have to jump in on the obligatory: No manual, no care.
I would be surprised if the ZF8 was the only transmission offered for the 4 cylinder. I think they planned for manual with the 4 banger a while back. $40k for a turbo 4 banger Supra wouldnít be a bad deal. I bet it gets some weak sauce brakes and other downgrades that essentially make the deal not worth it though.
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Old 02-10-2020, 04:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
I bet it gets some weak sauce brakes and other downgrades that essentially make the deal not worth it though.
Location checks out. I'd love to disagree, but I think you're right.
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
I would be surprised if the ZF8 was the only transmission offered for the 4 cylinder. I think they planned for manual with the 4 banger a while back. $40k for a turbo 4 banger Supra wouldnít be a bad deal. I bet it gets some weak sauce brakes and other downgrades that essentially make the deal not worth it though.
Looking at Toyota Germany, it seems like the 4 cylinder Supra is only available in the 8AT.
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:09 PM   #30
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Looking at Toyota Germany, it seems like the 4 cylinder Supra is only available in the 8AT.
Well, looks like the Supra revival will go down as a bust.
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:15 PM   #31
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A 4 cylinder automatic Supra is the answer to a question that nobody is asking.
Well, there it is.
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:32 PM   #32
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If has a 350 hp 4 cylinder connected to a DCT box with AWD I'd ask to take hard looks at it.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
If has a 350 hp 4 cylinder connected to a DCT box with AWD I'd ask to take hard looks at it.
Is this post in the correct thread?!?





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Old 02-10-2020, 09:09 PM   #34
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HTBS is not nobody. HTBS is a somebody. A real life person. From a past life.

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Old 02-10-2020, 10:27 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
If has a 350 hp 4 cylinder connected to a DCT box with AWD I'd ask to take hard looks at it.
Turn the X1 into a hot hatch and call it the X1M and Iíd be all about it.
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
HTBS is not nobody. HTBS is a somebody. A real life person. From a past life.

Lurking in the shadows of N&R whispering "all wheel drive, six speed manual, two door cooooop."

Some day, he will reveal himself.
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Old 02-11-2020, 12:12 AM   #37
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Walked around a yellow Supra in Grand Forks, styling is polarizing. I couldn't adjust to how small the car physically is, I'm 6'2" and had thoughts that I might not fit. $58K sticker.

One of the sales weasels asked if I'd take it, my response wrong transmission, need a manual. All 5 of my rides are manuals.

Nothing against 4-bangers, especially something they might consider dropping into the Supra, but without that manual just kills the whole deal, like a hot chick that smokes, no likes kissing an ash tray.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:44 PM   #38
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And while i have no interest in either version at this point, it's not as if the 4cyl is a dog, the Z4 4Cyl claims 0-60 in 5.2 sec. Perhaps not fast enough for Domenic Toretto but not exactly a slouch
Yeah, that's not bad, however, my family car looking sedan (WRX/STI) and hatch (Golf-R) can do that faster without trying too hard.. that's a problem.
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:15 AM   #39
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Yeah, that's not bad, however, my family car looking sedan (WRX/STI) and hatch (Golf-R) can do that faster without trying too hard.. that's a problem.
With a tune, it would probably be fine. If it has a dual clutch automatic it will probably be 1/2 sec faster to 60 than the manual Z4 anyway. If those times are a focus then you would be better off with a used Audi TTRS which would run similar money.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:11 AM   #40
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The FT86 already fills the Celica like option in the line up. Similar power, weight and size, and designed as a sports car from the beginning. Compare it to it's name sake the AE86 and about the only thing it has in common is the name.

The S FR concept is much more akin to the AE86 than the twins.
The original Celica was never a sports car. It was a sporty touring coupe like a Prelude, and was RWD at the time. It was for people who couldn't afford a 280X.

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so no manual no care, but you like EV???

EV are the antithesis for driver engagement

Whoever says EV's have no driver engagement have never driven an wheel drive Model 3. It's like driving a manual in 2nd gear at 5000rpm, strong engine braking and strong acceleration too.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:29 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Whoever says EV's have no driver engagement have never driven an wheel drive Model 3. It's like driving a manual in 2nd gear at 5000rpm, strong engine braking and strong acceleration too.
I think it's pretty clear by now that everyone has a different set of needs and desires when defining what they expect from driving engagement. While your argument is valid for some drivers, its not for others.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:45 AM   #42
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Dealers discounting $5k off now as not selling well at all. This 4 cyl version may well replace Toyota86/BRZ
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:04 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Whoever says EV's have no driver engagement have never driven an wheel drive Model 3. It's like driving a manual in 2nd gear at 5000rpm, strong engine braking and strong acceleration too.
The model 3 I drove (long range rwd, pre-"dyno mode") was not a very engaging drive, granted I didn't push it hard, but aside from the increased thrust, it felt very camry-esque when considering feedback - all I got was wind noise at speed, not a lot of feedback in the steering wheel, no feedback in the seat; there just wasn't a lot of sensory feedback. I liken it to playing a video game...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex View Post
I think it's pretty clear by now that everyone has a different set of needs and desires when defining what they expect from driving engagement. While your argument is valid for some drivers, its not for others.
Yes, I'm in the sensory feedback camp; I want a vehicle to communicate through touch points (steering wheel, seat, pedals/pedal box, shift lever if it's a manual) as well as provide auditory feedback. It's the reason tin-can econoboxes can be fun - they don't necessarily go fast, but they let you know when you run over a pebble and which tire ran it over, and the lack of weight and insulation means you hear everything that is going on, not just tire squeal, but suspension & chassis noises, the engine and transmission noises; if you've ever driven anything FR with a tremec, you know transmission whine and backlash noises. Those experiences are what sell Miatas, and why the FiST was almost universally applauded and preferred over the FoST.

The model 3 is trying to compete with luxury marks, so part of it's design philosophy insulates the driver from the driving experience.

When sensory feedback is reduced to tire noise and g-forces, it's a less engaging experience for me, especially when all I have to play with are a couple pedals and a wheel. I also spent a lot of time on motorcycles (before I had my son) so I'm a junky for input. If the electric motor(s) were more audible, and more road feel was transmitted through the seat/chassis and steering wheel it would make for a more engaging driving experience for me.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:53 PM   #44
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With a tune, it would probably be fine. If it has a dual clutch automatic it will probably be 1/2 sec faster to 60 than the manual Z4 anyway. If those times are a focus then you would be better off with a used Audi TTRS which would run similar money.
Yeah, if I was okay with AT I would definitely opt for a TT-S or RS over the Supra. AWD is good to have on street. However, it must have MT if Supra.. otherwise no sale.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
The original Celica was never a sports car. It was a sporty touring coupe like a Prelude, and was RWD at the time. It was for people who couldn't afford a 280X.
I mean... The Celica GT4 production started back in 1986, so... that's kinda like saying the impreza was never a sports car... except the wrx and sti exist...

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Old 02-12-2020, 01:59 PM   #46
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I mean... The Celica GT4 production started back in 1986, so... that's kinda like saying the impreza was never a sports car... except the wrx and sti exist...
Not exactly on-topic, and it's only a word, but I'm not calling a WRX or an STI a sports car either.

IMHO, the Celica is more of a sports car than a hopped up Impreza.
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:14 PM   #47
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Not exactly on-topic, and it's only a word, but I'm not calling a WRX or an STI a sports car either.

IMHO, the Celica is more of a sports car than a hopped up Impreza.
I would agree. Itís really just semantics but Iíve always consider the wrx and sti an enthusiast / higher to high performance sedan. The Brz/frs Iíll consider a sports car, but itís a ****ty one. Yes a sports car can be an enthusiast car but it doesnít go vice versa in my head.


Again, itís semantics and at the end of the day it really doesnít matter. A 4 banger Supra would just be a poor mans sports car, imo.

Browsed eBay last night. A brand new premium Supra in yellow has a BIN for $40.5k. At $40.5k, thatís a decent deal.

Am I the only one disappointed it has an electronic E-brake?
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:25 PM   #48
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I don't get why enthusiasts hate the electronic e-brake. I'm not doing e-brake turns these days, so electronic is fine by me.
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:27 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
Not exactly on-topic, and it's only a word, but I'm not calling a WRX or an STI a sports car either.

IMHO, the Celica is more of a sports car than a hopped up Impreza.
Semantics.... Both GT-4 and STI competed in and won worldwide races. But we take away the "sports" moniker because they're based on a pedestrian chassis?
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:45 PM   #50
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Semantics.... Both GT-4 and STI competed in and won worldwide races. But we take away the "sports" moniker because they're based on a pedestrian chassis?
So did Volvo wagons. So did pickup trucks. And on and on.

Does that make them a sports car? IMHO, being a "sports car" has nothing to do with competition. Race cars compete.

Sports cars are generally two seaters, purpose-built (i.e., designed) cars for driving enjoyment. I won't go so far as the convertible-only definition that others use though. BRZ, 911, Miata, MR2, S2000, Z3/4, etc. purpose-built sports cars.

Sports sedans, like U.S. STI or WRX, M3, etc. aren't the same. They are adaptations of practical cars to provide more performance.

Webster Definition of sports car
: a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving

Yes, because the cars underpinning them aren't purpose built for performance/driving dynamics, I think that's a pretty good line of distinction.

If you consider an M3 a sports car, what about an M340? Regular 340? 330? BMW makes a sports car in the Z4 (or whatever it is now), they also make sports sedans (M3).

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