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Old 05-16-2018, 10:30 AM   #676
juanmedina
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Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
Did the article say the Firetruck was stationary, or where it was struck?

I may have missed that part.
Yeah the truck was stationary at a red light.

She was really distracted.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:59 AM   #677
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Yeah the truck was stationary at a red light.

She was really distracted.
depending on which article you read; she had an address in the nav system, but was confirming it in her cell phone (so not exactly texting and driving, but the same damn thing; staring at the screen instead of out the windshield while moving at 60mph).

it's a 60mph/40mph intersection with lights, she was on the 60mph portion. Long, straight, flat - clearly driver error/distracted driving whatever; getting headlines because Tesla, and trying to use semi-autonomous as autonomous.

It's funny how when it was google cars getting into accidents, and it was clearly driver error, the headlines stated it "Google car crashes, but it's due to drive error/intervention, not the car" but that's how the media spin works.

what are we at, one Tesla every six months while autopilot is engaged due to the driver being a moron? how many merc/audi/bmw etc. crashes are there a month due to the driver being a moron?

Remember when the second gen lightning came out and people were topping them out on highways and crashing them because apparently triple digits on public roadways in a lowered pickup is a bad idea? Media blamed Ford for selling them, not the idiots behind the wheel.

People are the reason we can't have nice things.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:28 AM   #678
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No, I am pretty sure its not like saying that at all

My father in law is a pilot and he quits paying as much attention with auto pilot on. Trust me I don't like it one bit, I don't even like flying as it is LOL! Does this mean he is on his phone playing games? Never. It means he doesn't have to be 100% focused on the instrument panel and keeping the plane on course. This allows him some time to radio the towers and whatever else he does. Imo being that air traffic is quite a different animal, it kind of makes that a difficult comparison.

Mouth breather ... I needed that this morning. I agree she should be in jail with felony charges. One thing to note, this was only made possible with the autopilot feature. Without it she would have had to be mentally unstable or very dumb to purposely take her hands 100% off the steering wheel and text message at 60mph going through intersections without paying any attention. Simply put the more mouth breathers that have access to this technology, the more your going to have to worry about the wife and kiddos on the road.

Don't get me wrong, there are people on the road without autopilot causing accidents by not paying attention, text messaging, talking on the phone etc. As far as I know there always have been. IMO the number of people not paying attention on the road will increase if more people have this technology. Most are already addicted to their phones and if they can find another second to take a look at social media you bet they will.
Think for a minute. How many incidents comparatively do this crap save compared to situations like this? Probably 100 to 1, but you never hear about the saves. How many texting or smartphone use wrecks every day in this country? Thousands. Sorry this isnít news. Itís another incident of very very stupid people. And itís another incident of fear mongering by the media. If she would have been paying attention, as she should have, as the manufacturer of said product says to, there would have been no incident.

Cruise control encourages me to get road head or have road sex, doesnít mean I do it. As long as we live there will be stupid people doing stupid things. The sooner this ADAS is in effect on all cars and at maturation the better. They are gonna look at that smartphone while driving no matter what anyone does. Until itís Federal, illegal, and a felony, they wonít change. Until soccer mom can go to jail for a year it wonít change. Until Mr. or Mrs. corporate executive goes to a jail for a year it wonít change. Until they are fined ten grand it wonít change. People are narcissists and nothing will change their behavior but a locked cell or stiff fines. Tesla isnít to blame here, this dumb lady is at fault. A bunch of fear mongering. Need to punch something into your phone, pull off the road into a parking lot, and stop. Enter your crap, done, re-join the road. Soon the phone manus will take care of this chit behavior. They are going to lock phone functions once people reach x speed.

The smartphone has made my life easier as I do some home automation with it. Itís comms, some home controls (thermostat, garage, alarm, sprinklers, pool controls), music player, calculator, and a web browser when deucing or at say a dcotorís office, waiting. It Iíd happily give it up and give it back to end this behavior behind the wheel.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:42 AM   #679
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:01 PM   #680
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^^ What a POS
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:11 PM   #681
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
depending on which article you read; she had an address in the nav system, but was confirming it in her cell phone (so not exactly texting and driving, but the same damn thing; staring at the screen instead of out the windshield while moving at 60mph).

it's a 60mph/40mph intersection with lights, she was on the 60mph portion. Long, straight, flat - clearly driver error/distracted driving whatever; getting headlines because Tesla, and trying to use semi-autonomous as autonomous.

It's funny how when it was google cars getting into accidents, and it was clearly driver error, the headlines stated it "Google car crashes, but it's due to drive error/intervention, not the car" but that's how the media spin works.

what are we at, one Tesla every six months while autopilot is engaged due to the driver being a moron? how many merc/audi/bmw etc. crashes are there a month due to the driver being a moron?

Remember when the second gen lightning came out and people were topping them out on highways and crashing them because apparently triple digits on public roadways in a lowered pickup is a bad idea? Media blamed Ford for selling them, not the idiots behind the wheel.

People are the reason we can't have nice things.
I will flat out admit that people are the reason why we canít have nice things and it will be people who blatantly ignore the fact that Tesla states hands must be on the wheel and driver paying attention while using semi autonomous driving mode. It really will be the driver being an idiot that causes issues to arrive and headaches to deal with for Tesla and any other autonomous driving company / tech.

That being said, we canít ignore the fact that the system failed to recognize a stopped fire truck at a red light and continued at full speed until it collided. The tech should have identified a stopped vehicle and begun to slow down or have some way to alert the driver, period. There have been reviews that stated when in semi autonomous mode and making a lane change that the vehicle has on numerous occasions cut off a vehicle in the lane over. That is also cause for concern.

I personally wouldnít be surprised if we find out that autonomous mode was NOT engaged and that stupid driver is trying to pass blame. Who knows. That being said, I think most of us can agree that autonomous driving is still in its infancy and Iíd be even willing to put it in beta or alpha testing phase and should not be a feature that is offered to consumers until itís damn near perfected. Itís too much liability on the company when it shouldnít be and trusting people to follow the instructions while in autonomous mode is foolish. People are stupid and as we have seen, canít be trusted with a tech that is not ready for real prime time.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:20 PM   #682
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I will flat out admit that people are the reason why we canít have nice things and it will be people who blatantly ignore the fact that Tesla states hands must be on the wheel and driver paying attention while using semi autonomous driving mode. It really will be the driver being an idiot that causes issues to arrive and headaches to deal with for Tesla and any other autonomous driving company / tech.

That being said, we canít ignore the fact that the system failed to recognize a stopped fire truck at a red light and continued at full speed until it collided. The tech should have identified a stopped vehicle and begun to slow down or have some way to alert the driver, period. There have been reviews that stated when in semi autonomous mode and making a lane change that the vehicle has on numerous occasions cut off a vehicle in the lane over. That is also cause for concern.

I personally wouldnít be surprised if we find out that autonomous mode was NOT engaged and that stupid driver is trying to pass blame. Who knows. That being said, I think most of us can agree that autonomous driving is still in its infancy and Iíd be even willing to put it in beta or alpha testing phase and should not be a feature that is offered to consumers until itís damn near perfected. Itís too much liability on the company when it shouldnít be and trusting people to follow the instructions while in autonomous mode is foolish. People are stupid and as we have seen, canít be trusted with a tech that is not ready for real prime time.
The more I hear, the more I think she was in the process of engaging it, including verifying the address on her phone.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:57 PM   #683
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Amazing
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:04 PM   #684
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https://www.topgear.com/videos/video...-new-york-test

Another very positive review of the model 3. It seems that the consensus is that the model 3 is a really good car.
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Old 05-17-2018, 03:16 AM   #685
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-c...s&page=1&pos=1

I put on a compression play with the TSLA stock and bond - when it pays, I will buy a Carrera GT or an F40. I couldn't justify buying one otherwise, but this way the money will come from Elon's followers. I won't disclose my size, ratio, or scaling, but I will earn from volatility as well as from the overall move, and I have room to add if needbe.
Weird hobby.

I just praise Tesla on the interwebs and my bank account fills up.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:43 AM   #686
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Default Tesla Model 3 Goes 515.7 On Single Charge

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Old 05-17-2018, 07:38 AM   #687
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Traveling 516 miles at 30 mph? That kind of "testing" annoys the crap out of me as it's not practical at all.

Nor is it enjoyable to drive that slow.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:57 AM   #688
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Traveling 516 miles at 30 mph? That kind of "testing" annoys the crap out of me as it's not practical at all.

Nor is it enjoyable to drive that slow.
hypermiling is as hypermiling does
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:41 AM   #689
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Traveling 516 miles at 30 mph? That kind of "testing" annoys the crap out of me as it's not practical at all.

Nor is it enjoyable to drive that slow.
Testing is bad.
Seeing range capability for city drivers is bad
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:45 AM   #690
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Without LIDAR its not an auto pilot.
Looks to be blowing up into big issue now.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...ion-nhtsa-ntsb
ries
Swiss prosecutors investigate fatal Tesla crash
Ľ Tesla may require $10 billion in funding by 2020, Goldman says
Ľ Teslas may be safe, but what about the rest of us?
Ľ Tesla board opposition builds as proxy firm slams governance

UPDATED: 5/17/18 8:03 am ET - new story

WASHINGTON/SAN FRANCISCO -- Tesla Inc. confirmed to police that another of its vehicles crashed with a driver using Autopilot, and the incident triggered more scrutiny by federal regulators.

Technicians at the electric-car maker have recovered data from the Model S driven by a 28-year-old woman who crashed her Model S on Friday, police in South Jordan, Utah, Tesla said in an emailed statement. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced earlier that the agency had sent its special crash investigations team to gather information.

The driver didn’t touch the steering wheel for the 80 seconds leading up to colliding with a fire mechanic truck at about 60 miles per hour, according to Tesla’s report to police. The driver said she was looking at her phone prior to the crash and was issued a citation.

“The vehicle registered more than a dozen instances of her hands being off the steering wheel in this drive cycle,” according to Tesla’s report. “On two such occasions, she had her hands off the wheel for more than one minute each time and her hands came back on only after a visual alert was provided. Each time she put her hands back on the wheel, she took them back off the wheel after a few seconds.”

While Tesla’s report cast blame on the driver, the company hasn’t adopted systems that automakers including General Motors have to monitor whether drivers are paying attention while using partially autonomous technology. CEO Elon Musk tweeted this week that the company has rejected eye-tracking technology due to ineffectiveness. GM features it in Cadillac models equipped its Super Cruise system.

The driver used Autopilot on a street with no center median and with stop light-controlled intersections, which is “contrary to the proper use” of the system, according to Tesla’s report to police.

“When using Autopilot, drivers are continuously reminded of their responsibility to keep their hands on the wheel and maintain control of the vehicle at all times,” the company said in an emailed statement. “Tesla has always been clear that Autopilot doesn’t make the car impervious to all accidents.”
IN CASE YOU MISSED IT
TrueCar's Perry: 'We embraced the need to change'

Do consumers want the lowest price or a fair price? TrueCar is betting on a fair price.
Read more >

NHTSA will take “appropriate action” based on its review of the crash, an agency spokesman said Wednesday in an email. Its probe is the latest by federal transportation agencies into a series of recent accidents involving Tesla vehicles.

NHTSA investigators are also reviewing a Tesla that crashed in January near Los Angeles and fatal crash earlier this month in Florida.

The National Transportation Safety Board also is probing those crashes, in addition to a March fatality in Northern California.

Another probe is in process overseas. Prosecutors in the southern Swiss region of Ticino are investigating last week’s death of a German driver whose Tesla caught fire on the highway after what the company said appeared to be a high-speed crash.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:56 AM   #691
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Without LIDAR its not an auto pilot.
Looks to be blowing up into big issue now.
I like how your editorializing has nothing to do with the article.

'Autopilot' is the Tesla tradename for their self-driving suite.. yet you want to define what "an auto pilot" means in regards to a car.

Hint: Car's don't actually have auto pilot. What good would setting a heading hold, wing leveler, altitude, or vertical speed do in an automobile?

I totally agree that without LIDAR the autonomous capabilities of Tesla's system are severely limited (to the same driving conditions that human drivers are capable of navigating safely). LIDAR systems are allowing Waymo's vehicles to see things in the dark or fog.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:59 AM   #692
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So Tesla owners are told to keep their hands on the wheel at all times but are given a feature called autopilot. Elon is feeding off stupid people at a ravenous rate, then when his tech fails, he hides behind a disclaimer.

Absolutely no class in this man at all. His next product will be called 'miracle pill insta-thin' but he will have a disclaimer, that this pill will not make you thin and is not a miracle.
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:34 PM   #693
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Auto pilot is not autonomous flying.. it's a pilot aid designed to allow the pilot to free up mental bandwidth for other flying tasks. It is not designed to allow pilots to watch movies and play with their phones. When pilots don't pay attention while flying, bad things happen, even on auto pilot. It's not Elon Musk's fault people don't understand what auto pilot is. Tesla's Autopilot is far more advanced than the auto pilot in a similarly priced airplane.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:06 PM   #694
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Weird hobby.

I just praise Tesla on the interwebs and my bank account fills up.
+7% in the first 4 days... Thought it would feel better than it does - maybe once I have the car - probably not, the sheep will still be fostering our idiocracy.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:59 PM   #695
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Auto pilot is not autonomous flying.. it's a pilot aid designed to allow the pilot to free up mental bandwidth for other flying tasks. It is not designed to allow pilots to watch movies and play with their phones. When pilots don't pay attention while flying, bad things happen, even on auto pilot. It's not Elon Musk's fault people don't understand what auto pilot is. Tesla's Autopilot is far more advanced than the auto pilot in a similarly priced airplane.
He named it to give people the feeling they bought something special, when in fact they did not. Also calling it autopilot invokes EXACTLY the phrase in peoples minds he wants it to, that being a car that can pilot itself.

So do not get into aileron discussions with me. You know darn well he is using marketing to push something his products cannot deliver on.... Guess that is true on everything Elon does.

Auto pilot is not autopilot
He could have made up his own term, but he used one with the universally understood connotation that the car would drive itself. He is not completely to blame, but he is damn sure partially to blame.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:21 PM   #696
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
He named it to give people the feeling they bought something special, when in fact they did not. Also calling it autopilot invokes EXACTLY the phrase in peoples minds he wants it to, that being a car that can pilot itself.

So do not get into aileron discussions with me. You know darn well he is using marketing to push something his products cannot deliver on.... Guess that is true on everything Elon does.

Auto pilot is not autopilot
He could have made up his own term, but he used one with the universally understood connotation that the car would drive itself. He is not completely to blame, but he is damn sure partially to blame.
People get into wrecks even with adaptive cruise control; they forget that most cars can't brake for you at speeds over 35MPH or so.
In the end, we, as drivers, are behind the wheel; we are ultimately responsible for what happens.
We can't blame it all on the manufacturer; all these cars come with manuals and a LONG list of disclaimers.
People need to ****ing read and understand what they're getting into.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:48 PM   #697
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People get into wrecks even with adaptive cruise control; they forget that most cars can't brake for you at speeds over 35MPH or so.
In the end, we, as drivers, are behind the wheel; we are ultimately responsible for what happens.
We can't blame it all on the manufacturer; all these cars come with manuals and a LONG list of disclaimers.
People need to ****ing read and understand what they're getting into.
nope, I am not doing that. The lady who hit the fire truck definitely has to absorb some of the the heat for this. No question. But its too late. All the headlines about self driving and autopilot that made people rush to buy these things are having its unintended effects. People think the car will think for them. They are more than happy to let it. A few words in a manual does not have a chance against the volume of marketing turned up to 11 on how wonderful autopilot is/
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Old 05-17-2018, 03:18 PM   #698
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Originally Posted by Masterauto View Post
Without LIDAR its not an auto pilot.
Looks to be blowing up into big issue now.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2018...ion-nhtsa-ntsb
ries
You have so much to learn my friend:

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Old 05-17-2018, 05:49 PM   #699
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Deleted the money dick waving posts. I and other mods have stated this is not a dick size comparison. Leave other people’s wealth, you’re own, insults etc out of this thread. Next violation will be a small one day ban, don’t care which side of the dick it’s on.

#GodfatherDontPlayFavorites

#carryon
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:41 AM   #700
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So for clarification:

Autopilot is marketing spin; it is not autonomous mode for your car
Drift mode is marketing spin; it does not make you Ken Block
Race mode/Track mode is marketing spin; it does not turn your street car into a race/track car

if you don't use any of the above features as prescribed it can result in any of the following or more:

(autopilot) your car plowing into something/someone while you are not watching the road and/or actively driving
(drift mode) your car plowing into a crowd at cars & coffee since you don't actually know how to drift
(Race/Track mode) you damaging your engine/drive train because you are driving it in a manner not prescribed by the manufacturer; and/or plowing through a crowd at cars and coffee because you are not a trained racing driver.

Are we all on the same page here?
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