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Old 11-27-2013, 03:12 PM   #901
willub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Right now I just have the koni yellow inserts with RCE springs. Before I started getting the blown strut clunk they were really harsh even at 1/4 turn off full soft.
Really? I've had good luck with my koni inserts. By no means is it a plush ride, but it's not harsh at all. I don't know how many miles are on them since they were installed by the PO, but I've put at least 25k on them. I put some RCE blacks on them last year and the koni's handled them just fine. I did notice a small dead spot in the stroke with each of them when I was swapping springs so I'm sure they could use a rebuild. I was also surprised to find that they aren't nitrogen filled, unless mine are really dead

P.S. Since this is the street mod thread, I guess I'll mention that I have flares on the way
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:23 PM   #902
*Ulimited*
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Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Actually, I wrote a letter asking for clarification recently regarding the rear fender. It's below, and I haven't gotten a response yet. The general consensus from the people I've poled is "yes, you can cut in the back and weld".

"The SP rules allow you to modify the fender from the vertical plane of the wheel mounting face outward and does not specify front or rear. It simply states "fenders". Below is the excerpt from the SP rules section.

15.2.A
Fenders and bumpers may be modified for tire clearance. This includes
the portion of a hood which serves as a fender/wheel well,
where applicable. This does not permit modifications to the chassis
or bodywork inboard of the vertical plane of the hub/wheel mounting
face (at rest, with front wheels straight ahead). Flares may be added
although tires may extend beyond the bodywork. Replacement of
complete hood, flared fenders, or quarter panels is prohibited. Plastic
and rubber wheel well splash shields may be modified for tire
clearance and for installation of fender flares as allowed herein.

When you go to the SM rules for bodywork it confuses me somewhat.

16.1.I
Front hoods (engine covers), engine covers, trunk lids and hatches
not containing glass, front fenders, rear fenders not part of chassis
structure (unibody), front & rear facias, and side skirts may be
modified or replaced, and may be attached with removable fasteners.
Associated hardware including latches, hinges, window washer
system, and hood liners may be modified, removed, or replaced.

The question revolves around flaring rear fenders on a 2000 Subaru sedan. My original plan was to cut the fender to allow outbound tire clearance during compression and then rivet on some plastic covers. The rear fender on a Subaru is a weld on piece and has an inner and outer fender. If I cut the fender to where I wanted it would also involve cutting the inner fender (it's an outer skin, then an inner metal layer that's crimped together). I would reweld the inner fender to the outer fender and rivet the plastic covers over that (and into the door).

My interpretation is as long as I don't cross the vertical line of the wheel mounting face I can cut the fender and weld the inner and outer surface together legally, then add the rivet on covers without issue. Is my interpretation correct?"
For myself I'd like to cut and replace the inner wheel arch up front, its the only thing at this point keeping me from going lower. I was thinking it could be covered under 16.1.P what do you guys think?

Really no performance benefit from doing it without doing the huge wheels and coil over suspension as well so it may be legal??? Or is that a tortured interpretation?

16.1.P

Any minor modification, intended to allow or facilitate any allowed
modification, is permitted as long as it does not provide any intrinsic
performance benefit in and of itself, does not provide a weight re
duction
of more than 1 lb, and is not explicitly prohibited elsewhere
within these rules.
This rule is intended to allow minor notching, bending, clearancing,

grinding; the drilling of holes; affixing, relocating, or strengthening of
brackets; removal of small parts, and similar operations performed
in order to facilitate the installation of allowed parts or modifications.
Minor strengthening, without relocation, of original chassis/suspension
pickup points is allowed. Examples include welding washers
restricting control arm mounting bolt movement, local reinforcement
of control arm chassis mounts, etc.
Competitors are strongly cautioned to make the minimum amount of
modification required to affix a given part, and to not make unduly
tortured interpretations of this rule. Modifications to the firewall in
order to allow for increased engine setback, and any modification
that changes the location of a suspension pickup point, are explicitly
forbidden. Plastic under-trays and covers below the vehicle may be
removed or modified as necessary to facilitate other compliant modifications,
but not added or enlarged.
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:37 PM   #903
subydude
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Tortured interpretation, sorry

You're cutting way more than 1lb and 1 inch to tub the front. You CAN use a hammer and dent it a little for more clearance if you're hitting a specific spot, but you CAN'T cut that section out and weld a new one in inbound of the vertical hub face.

Also, you can get low without tubbing that bit. I was down to 12.5" heights on 255/40/17's a long time ago without really rubbing there.
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:46 PM   #904
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Not even tortured, pretty much explicitly illegal. Just hammer the **** out of it.

Re-koni's, konis are low pressure or non-pressure twin tubes. I wish we had good suspension people that made stuff for these cars. 949racing is coming out with a coil over setup explicitly designed to be the most comfortable suspension for the miata and also lower it. Simple, strong, no damping adjustment, stainless bodies, mild spring rates, high quality guts with low hysteresis, valved properly, $750.
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:46 AM   #905
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^^ Not understanding. We have options that range from standard KYBs to WRC Reigers and you don't think anyone makes good suspensions for these cars?
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:09 PM   #906
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Yeah. For a short time you had turn in concepts taking ASTs and custom valving them. To get good suspension you need a race shop to take top level shocks and actually test and go through a few valving iterations, then sell them all setup. You see that $3800 setup of AST5100s? They're still going to need the valving changed because AST sucks at valving. With a car that has good options, some race shop would have already taken through, figured out some damn good valving and would be selling them under their own brand name for $3000. Companies that make shocks dont really do a good job at valving them, unless they're pre-AST Moton or MCS.
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:21 AM   #907
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Does it matter if the shop selling them has already done the valve before selling them or if you send new shocks to them for revalve? The end price should be pretty close.

Also, you're assuming the custom valve they do before selling them is valved for your car and what you do. In TiC's case, it is not. Even for an ST* car, you'd end up custom valving their custom valved SST's.

I have both AST 4100's (for sale soon), and KW Comps for my STU car. The Comps don't have a part number. You tell them weights, springs, projected use and they valve a range for them. Obviously, I like them better than the 4100's.
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:34 PM   #908
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I'm starting to eye up a PTuning turbo kit for the BRZ...

This plot is using the standard GT3076R at a peak of 9psi on 93 octane. I would be looking at a GTX2876R or a GT3071 which would have better response. Running with meth injection it makes over 400WHP. I figure running the smaller turbo on E85 would probably make similar numbers.


Last edited by dwx; 11-30-2013 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:45 PM   #909
*Ulimited*
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Another interpretation for you guys.

I'm about to order my wing and the stock width of an Sti is 68.5 inches. With the Karlton flares on my car I measured it as 72 inches just behind the rear tires. should I order the wing with a 72 inch width or do the rules not consider the flares part of the width? Are the flares considered some kind of trim?

Same goes for the front of the car for the splitter, with the flares the front is 71 inches at the tippy top of the front bumper.

Thanks

16.1.L Wings, and any component thereof, may not extend beyond the vehicle
width, as defined by the outermost portion of the vehicle doors,
less mirrors, door handles, rub strips, and trim.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:47 PM   #910
Leafy
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Well its measured by the doors, not the car, its done that way because you're not allowed to modify the doors.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:52 PM   #911
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Yes I would say take a measurement of the rear doors as they include some of the flare in them. I bet that's the widest part... Order that length...
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:55 PM   #912
Leafy
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I would only include the stock flare width, if you go by your added flare at the door your wing will quickly be clarifichanged into being illegal.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:59 PM   #913
Zefy
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Oh ya I only mean the stock flared section. I would assume the karlton flares count as trim and would not be included in the measurement. Even without the karlton flares though, the widest part is still the rear.
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Old 12-02-2013, 06:23 PM   #914
*Ulimited*
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Thanks guys. Does the same go for the front splitter? I think this is where I can max it out to the size of the flares correct?

16.1.M. Front splitters are allowed and shall be installed parallel to the ground
(within 3 fore to aft) and may extend a maximum of 6” (152.4mm)
from the front bodywork/fascia as viewed from above. Splitters may
not extend rearward past the centerline of the front wheels. No portion
of the splitter may extend beyond the widest part of the front
bumper/fascia as viewed from above.
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Old 12-02-2013, 08:32 PM   #915
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As far as I can tell fascia needs to be clarified in the rules. When the rules were written fascia was just a fancy name for bumper cover.
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Old 12-02-2013, 08:47 PM   #916
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I'd suggest building the splitter to the width of the stock bumper cover sans trim.
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:28 AM   #917
*Ulimited*
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It seems like the Pandas Splitter is as wide as its new front fenders? He added little backing plates to the front bumper that connect to the fenders.
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:51 AM   #918
subydude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Ulimited* View Post
It seems like the Pandas Splitter is as wide as its new front fenders? He added little backing plates to the front bumper that connect to the fenders.
I haven't paid close enough attention to Corrales setup, but the rules are explicit about bumpers. If his bumper cover is as wide as his front fenders then it's perfectly legal. If it goes wider than his bumper cover, then you could protest it.

Something to consider here, an extra inch or two of width is not going to make or break things. The more important thing is to get it at least 5 inches out in front, and extend it as far back as possible. I'd much rather have my splitter be 5.5 inches out and .5 inches narrower than my bumper cover and not have ANY worries about it shifting from hitting a cone than be sitting in impound doing eyeball measurements.

The wing's chord width is more important, but sacrificing an inch of chord is still worth it for peace of mind to me. SM is so open that you don't need to take things to the absolute limit all the time to win.
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Old 12-03-2013, 12:01 PM   #919
Leafy
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PJ's bumper cover is stretched. Although if you also look, his splitter isnt even close to the maximum length from the bumper. I cut it closer with 5 3/4" but my splitter supports were so bent up by the end of the season the splitter was on average 5" out from the bumper and twisted sideways. Some of that was from turn 5B at NHMS on "parade" laps on hoosiers. And a lot of it was from lincoln with some of it from Bob "splitter killer" Davis.
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:27 PM   #920
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Haha ok cool, thanks guys. I'm just trying to make sure I dont end up doing things over three times before I get them right.

I appreciate the feed back
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:59 PM   #921
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Pj splitter is perfectly legal, i forget the exact rule but you have to measure from the existing bumper 5in straight forward, Martin and were a little off at the NJ pro and just took a hack saw to it! did the job but with our new splitter we are getting way better down force. Im sure you guys will see it next season!
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:01 AM   #922
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6 INCHES FORWARD. And the rule is quoted on this page.
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:14 PM   #923
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Wondering if you guys can help me out. My subframe on this SM sti I've been building is held together by rust. Is there anything else besides stock that i can replace it with? IE) Beatrush lightweight subframe? I'm building to keep in SM class above all else and not just local so I want it to be legit. I've read that I can't remove it completely, but the replacement rule is a bit vague. The weight of it might be an issue but I've yet to find it during my searches.

Thanks for any help, appreciate it.
-sig
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:16 PM   #924
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You can run any subframe that doesnt change the suspension pickup points. It will need to weigh as much as stock though. But just weld/bolt some ballast on.
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:25 PM   #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
You can run any subframe that doesnt change the suspension pickup points. It will need to weigh as much as stock though. But just weld/bolt some ballast on.
That's awesome news to know, thanks for the reply. The making it weigh the same might be interesting but.. I can deal with that. According to Beatrush it's 20lbs lighter than the OEM subframe.

fun times, thanks again!
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