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Old 05-03-2004, 02:29 AM   #1
sick1.8t
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Default Pick: Sti RA rods or aftermarket forged rods?

i'm doing a build-up of an EJ20G from a jdm legacy BF5 in my garage, and i'm trying to pick a set of rods. i realize i will have to buy a set of forged pistons (unless the stockers are forged? anybody?), but for right now i'm looking at rods options.

1. i have a set of sti-ra rods, stock, forged. they're from an EJ18, so no detonation abuse or high rpms, but they are the same exact thing.
- free -

2. buy a set of forged rods from some aftermarket manufacturer.
- $400-500 beans for the set. -

is it worth the money?

and money aside, how do the sti-ra pieces stand up to a set of aftermarket ones?

thanks.
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Old 05-03-2004, 11:20 AM   #2
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1.8L sti RA rods?
Is there such a thing?
Or u had older 2.0 RA rods in a 1.8L engine ?
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Old 05-04-2004, 06:50 PM   #3
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the 1.8 comes with the 2.0 sti ra rods, oddly enough.
i know, just bear with me
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Old 05-04-2004, 08:13 PM   #4
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subaru does lots of funny things like that. If they are in good shape they should be fine. What kind of bost and rpm are you going to run the motor at?
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Old 05-04-2004, 08:14 PM   #5
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Default Well,

Rallispec wants $1500 for STI rods, Crower wants $700. I'd go with the Crower rods myself.

San
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Old 05-04-2004, 08:23 PM   #6
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not more than 18psi and stock redline.
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Old 05-04-2004, 08:37 PM   #7
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Ya, if they are in good shape no problems. If you were going to run like mid 20s at 8k... then you might want to think about it.
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:52 PM   #8
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anybody know how many horsepower the sti ra rods usually support?
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Old 05-05-2004, 08:03 PM   #9
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How do these STI RA rods differ from the standard rods used in pretty much all 2L turbo blocks from 93 on to the recent design change in the latest models?

IIRC, sti RA cars, until at least version 7, used the same rods as any of the 2L turbo engines.
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Old 05-05-2004, 08:55 PM   #10
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Crower or Pauter...

Interesting new info to add to my brain about the EJ18 tho! ... Hmmmm
Brighton EJ18...EJ20 block sitting in garage...heh...could be fun!


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Old 05-05-2004, 09:17 PM   #11
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i'm not of a new age wrx person, but i believe that the rods in the wrx now a days arent forged, although they may be.
but it's pretty standard that the sti ra pistons/rods/block (closed deck) can handle more power than the run of the mill non fordged/open deck wrx motor.

it was 94 or 95 that the block design changed to an open deck, and thats probably when the rest of the internals got weaker too.
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Old 05-05-2004, 10:38 PM   #12
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The rod fitted to the 93 closed deck legacy turbo block is identical to the rods fitted to the UK97, STI V3, STI V4, 22B engines.

The rod design has only recently been changed for an improved design. The new rod design has been used in the EJ257 US STI block.

As I understand it, both these designs of rod are of forged construction.

Anyways, I suspect that you may be going to a lot of trouble to secure a regular subaru turbo rod that can be found in pretty much any subaru turbo engine built before the recent change.

I have bought and prepped a set of US STI rods for use in a closed deck 2L engine I am currently building up. The new rod design is ~6% to 7% lighter than the older model, as well as being a stronger overall design which subaru is has okayed to give OE lifespan whilst running 300lb ft from the factory.

I would suggest comparing the new factory rod design with the "RA" rods you have found... You might be pleasantly suprised... and the new rods are not at all expensive.
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Old 05-06-2004, 04:34 PM   #13
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so even the usdm ej20's from the new wrx's have the same rod?

i was under the understanding that the sti, at least the ra, was built with better internals than the other motors, including the later jdm ej20.
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Old 05-06-2004, 05:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by sick1.8t
so even the usdm ej20's from the new wrx's have the same rod?

i was under the understanding that the sti, at least the ra, was built with better internals than the other motors, including the later jdm ej20.
Don't use usdm wrx rods they are not forged and arnt as strong as any other aftermarket or sti option i can think of..
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Old 05-07-2004, 06:53 PM   #15
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I would be suprised if subaru of america specified a downgrade to non-forged rods for the usdm WRX engine. I guess it might have happened, but all the japanese built ej20 turbo engines I have seen dismantled had forged rods.
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Old 05-07-2004, 07:41 PM   #16
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i
Quote:
Originally posted by worry
I would be suprised if subaru of america specified a downgrade to non-forged rods for the usdm WRX engine. I guess it might have happened, but all the japanese built ej20 turbo engines I have seen dismantled had forged rods.
it could true just considering that the cost of manufacturing goes way down.
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:46 PM   #17
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manufacturing one component for use across the entire product line would also have considerable cost benefits.

Out of interest, what is it that makes you think that the US WRX ej20 turbo rods are not the same forged items used in all the other ej20 applications? Have you looked at these US rods? Do you have any pictures of the rod that you could post up?

Cheers,

worry
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:05 PM   #18
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FYI, the EJ18 and EJ20 (both US spec engines) have the same part number for the rods. I cant remember the number now, but I looked it up a few months ago.

If you want aftermarket, I suggest Oliver Rods. They don't list them on their site, but they do sell EJ20 Billet rods.
Oliver Rods
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Old 05-08-2004, 01:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Out of interest, what is it that makes you think that the US WRX ej20 turbo rods are not the same forged items used in all the other ej20 applications? Have you looked at these US rods? Do you have any pictures of the rod that you could post up?
i'm pretty sure that the usdm rods arent forged, so they arent the same, because the sti ra's are. and i'm confident that the sti ra's and the early 1.8's are the same rod. the part numbers may be the same between 1.8 and 2.0 rods, but they arent the same pieces origionally. subaru has been known to replace the origional pieces that came in cars with 'updated' parts that are able to do the job, but they are cheaper to manufacture. the 'updated' ej18 rod is probably the regular non-forged ej20 rod, but back in the day the ej18 got the sti ra rod, for whatever reason.
the ej205 is the regular wrx engine, whereas the ej207 is the sti engine. the difference in designation would imply that there are differences between the engines. if you want to research on your own thats cool, but for now,

not all ej20 rods and pistons are the same.

i suppose a good question at this point would be:
How much power have people put down with the sti engine's stock internals?
and
How much power have people put down with upgraded internals?
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Old 05-08-2004, 02:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by sick1.8t

i suppose a good question at this point would be:
How much power have people put down with the sti engine's stock internals?
and
How much power have people put down with upgraded internals?
For you goals they will do fine. They are the same rods as in the old ej20G and ej22 turbo blocks right? They hold fine ~300-350whp in thoes closed deck blocks.

Built blocks are diffrent; depends on the builder(do they know how to build a subaru block) and the parts (are they poorly designed?). A guy up the street using cheep rods and JE pistons vs a pro like axis, cobb, crawford,... who use high quality parts and know what they are doing. Built blocks are a whole differnt world compaired to stock blocks.
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Old 05-09-2004, 11:47 PM   #21
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sick1.8t,

re "if you want to research on your own thats cool, but for now,

not all ej20 rods and pistons are the same."

I think that you have misread what I have written.

At no point did I imply that all ej20s had the same pistons and the same rods.

I stated that I have seen only two designs of rods in all of the ej20 turbo (and the ej22) engines that I have dismantled or seen dismantled. Both of these rod designs appear to be off forged construction.


re "i'm pretty sure that the usdm rods arent forged, so they arent the same, because the sti ra's are. and i'm confident that the sti ra's and the early 1.8's are the same rod."

You say you are "pretty sure" of this and "confident" of that, and refer to a "regular non-forged ej20 rod", which begs a couple fo questions:

Have you actually seen a set of usdm ej20 rods alongside a set of rods from an sti RA of the same vintage?

How many sets of OE internals from different model ej20 motors have you personally looked at?

Also, do you have any pictures of the rods from the EJ18 block you can post up so that we can see what an "sti-ra" rod looks like please?

It would be good to be able to confirm that the ej18 rods that you state are exactly the same as sti-ra ones are in fact different from the regular rod used in the other ej20 turbo motors.

Cheers,

Worry
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Old 05-11-2004, 06:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Have you actually seen a set of usdm ej20 rods alongside a set of rods from an sti RA of the same vintage?
they didnt make the usdm wrx at the same time as the early sti-ra, so no, because its impossible.


Quote:
How many sets of OE internals from different model ej20 motors have you personally looked at?
enough to know what i'm talking about. and this shouldnt matter because fact is fact if you've read it or seen it.
my question to all is a question about attainable power levels, and you're post questioning my knowledge doesnt need to be here. if you dont want to believe me about the rods thats fine.

so back to my question, is it worth the upgrade?
lets say i'm shooting for 400whp, have people put down 400whp with sti-ra motors with stock internals? (race gas and some decent lifetime for the motor).

on the www.spdusa.com site it says the sti-ra can make upwards of 320hp on good gas, and no mention of other upgrades.
so if thats bone stock, what can it take with turbo upgrades and such?
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Old 05-12-2004, 07:03 AM   #23
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re "they didnt make the usdm wrx at the same time as the early sti-ra, so no, because its impossible."

Again, you appear to have misread what I have written. I didn't mention a usdm wrx, I asked about the usdm ej20. Maybe there are 2L turbo legacys over there? I know from expirience that the same rod is used in the legacy 2.2 turbo block, the EJ22T.

re "enough to know what i'm talking about. and this shouldnt matter because fact is fact if you've read it or seen it. "

I take it from this that this "fact" is something that you have read rather than something that you have actually seen for yourself. This answers my question, so thank you for that. I shall not risk further offending you by asking wether or not you can point me to whereabouts you read it from.

It is a shame that you appear to have been wound up just because someone asks you to expand on something that you have written. I did not mean to upset you. I don't think my asking for you to expand on what you had written was entirely unreasonable either.

I have learnt that it isn't healthy to believe without question absolutely everything that you read/are told.

Anyways...

As to your rod strength question, one chap, Andy Forrest, running a very effectively tuned early wrx ra engine made over 400 european horsepower at the flywheel over here in the UK.

Another chap, has been running more than 400 European horsepower, again at the flywheel, on a standard STI 3 bottom end, which runs STI forged pistons along with the same rods as every other EJ20/EJ22 that I have seen up to my01.

I deliberately mention that these are european horsepower figures because there seem to be significant differences in the way in which europe and the US measure horsepower. The european figures tend to be significantly lower then similarly setup cars in the US. Based on this difference in standards, the cars I mentioned, that produce 400+ european flywheel horsepower figures on standard ej20 rods, would probably produce somewhat larger figures were they to be run in the US.
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:33 AM   #24
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Old 05-12-2004, 09:51 AM   #25
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Thanks for posting these pictures.

Are these the rods from your 1.8?

The piston has early long skirt design, similar to the ones used in early legacy turbo ej20s.

The rod appears to be the standard forged rod that I have been refering to. I might even have one or two from the same forging die lying around at home.

This would be the same rod that the aforementioned STI 3 and, I believe, the early ra are running 400+ euro horses through.

The same rod was used in the 22b.
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