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Old 09-13-2017, 02:54 PM   #1
Boomchakalaka
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Default Oil cooler advice!!

I have a high stress ej251 02 engine that darkens oil pretty fast and I'd like to help her along by adding an external oil cooler. Does anyone know how big of a cooler she would need? How many passes should I go with for these engines? Where did you end up pitting your oil cooler or where is yours located? Will I need a sandwich adapter?

Thanks!
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:43 PM   #2
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just get a mishimoto oil cooler. they make a direct bolt in set up with everything you would need.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:23 PM   #3
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You have a custom fitted one? How many passes n where did they put it, how long of lines ect, I'll need to do it cheaper. I'm pretty sure they cost like $300 which they should with the time that goes in but I can get lines for 30 each and the right cooler for about a 100.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:43 PM   #4
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I have a Mishimoto cooler. Way easy to install. I didn't want to deal with trying to make my own kit. There are also things that the kit has that I wouldn't have been able to do. I'm quite pleased with the kit I got.

If you look at Mishimoto's website, they have all the details on their kits along with videos of how to install them.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:18 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JourdanWithaU View Post
videos of how to install them.
And that's my key, brilliant idea thank you!
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:22 AM   #6
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running rich darkens oil
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Old 09-16-2017, 03:11 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by motorbykemike View Post
running rich darkens oil
Yeah it's just an old engine, I don't have any other signs of running rich, oil gets thick as all hell too. She jus dirty lol

What about thermostats. I'd prefer to not buy one n I already warm up my engine, but can the winter months cause issues? Anyone with a thermostatic unit out there??

Last edited by Boomchakalaka; 09-16-2017 at 03:30 PM. Reason: Therms
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:08 PM   #8
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1. The color of oil bears zero role in its efficacy.
2. You need an oil cooler like a second butthole in a normal car.
3. Adding complexity to a simple system increases the failure points.
4. You have no idea what an oil cooler does, so why are you at Step 900 of the parts process when you should already know things like you need a thermostat, there is no such thing as "passes" with oil coolers and other details.

If you wish to sally forth on this fool's errand, AT LEAST do it smartly and start really researching.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomchakalaka View Post
I have a high stress ej251 02 engine that darkens oil pretty fast and I'd like to help her along by adding an external oil cooler. Does anyone know how big of a cooler she would need? How many passes should I go with for these engines? Where did you end up pitting your oil cooler or where is yours located? Will I need a sandwich adapter?

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomchakalaka View Post
Yeah it's just an old engine, I don't have any other signs of running rich, oil gets thick as all hell too. She jus dirty lol

What about thermostats. I'd prefer to not buy one n I already warm up my engine, but can the winter months cause issues? Anyone with a thermostatic unit out there??
Cheaper bet (and likely all you need) is a couple UOA's to see what is going on. Is the oil just dirty, or cooked?
My guess, high miles, maybe cheap oil left in too long, poor oil filters or failing rings......some combination of these.
A UOA will let you know the condition of the oil you take out, decide from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
1. The color of oil bears zero role in its efficacy.
2. You need an oil cooler like a second butthole in a normal car.
3. Adding complexity to a simple system increases the failure points.
4. You have no idea what an oil cooler does, so why are you at Step 900 of the parts process when you should already know things like you need a thermostat, there is no such thing as "passes" with oil coolers and other details.

If you wish to sally forth on this fool's errand, AT LEAST do it smartly and start really researching.
Agreed.....along with my other comments in this post.

PS, UOA = used oil analysis........Blackstone labs is a source.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
1. The color of oil bears zero role in its efficacy.
2. You need an oil cooler like a second butthole in a normal car.
3. Adding complexity to a simple system increases the failure points.
4. You have no idea what an oil cooler does, so why are you at Step 900 of the parts process when you should already know things like you need a thermostat, there is no such thing as "passes" with oil coolers and other details.

If you wish to sally forth on this fool's errand, AT LEAST do it smartly and start really researching.
Lol whoa there, the dark oil is not my concern atm. This ain't a normal car either I said it's a high stressed engine, I use it for work. So we're talking high rpms at low gears and a lot of sitting in it's own heat at idle. As well as being my personal car. I'm also not scared of adding failure points what I am scared of is my oil temp becoming too high or too low.

Do you have a thermostat and maybe an oil temp gauge? Have you noticed that it dips in colder temperatures under use with the oil cooler flowing? That's all I really want to know, thanks.
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Old 09-17-2017, 06:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Cheaper bet (and likely all you need) is a couple UOA's to see what is going on. Is the oil just dirty, or cooked?
My guess, high miles, maybe cheap oil left in too long, poor oil filters or failing rings......some combination of these.
A UOA will let you know the condition of the oil you take out, decide from there.



Agreed.....along with my other comments in this post.

PS, UOA = used oil analysis........Blackstone labs is a source.
Just dirty brother. I use Mobil 1 extended life as well as matching filters. Says on the bottle good for 15k but I change every 5k. I'm not too worried about the oil but maybe I'll be curious enough to send off a sample one day. See my other reply, I just want someone with some experience telling me that yes without a thermostat (And with a 10 pass/row cooler) the oil tends to become too low in cold temps.
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:00 PM   #12
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What oil temps are you running?

Without knowing that, you're solving the problem before knowing if you even have a problem. Over-cooling the oil isn't a good thing either.

If you find that your oil temps are indeed getting too high, get a setup with a thermostatic valve in the sandwich piece so you're only cooling the oil when it needs it.
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomchakalaka View Post
Just dirty brother. I use Mobil 1 extended life as well as matching filters. Says on the bottle good for 15k but I change every 5k. I'm not too worried about the oil but maybe I'll be curious enough to send off a sample one day. See my other reply, I just want someone with some experience telling me that yes without a thermostat (And with a 10 pass/row cooler) the oil tends to become too low in cold temps.
I have an OEM cooler that fits between the block and oil filter.
Why?, it came on a used engine I installed, its not cheap to buy, but can't really hurt.

I normally run a modded NA engine putting out over 200HP.
I also do spirited driving, some mountain runs, AutoX, pulling about 2000LB trailers at speed on the highway, sitting in traffic jams in summer in the NY metro area, etc.

Without knowing the actual oil temps you have, does not pay to "fix an issue" you may not have.
One issue of cool oil is you never boil the condensation it of the oil (also an issue for short trips) and you dilute the lubrication.
I guess a crude cheap way to check would be a thermometer you drip oil onto that comes up with the dipstick or an IR gun measuring the oil pan while running.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
If you find that your oil temps are indeed getting too high, get a setup with a thermostatic valve in the sandwich piece so you're only cooling the oil when it needs it.
Well screw it I will do that. It makes all the sense in the world I know. Was only wondering if someone took a chance without one, saving fifty bucks, and found that their new system had a fine time of it keeping temps. I monitor my car so I'll know when my thermostat goes bad lols thanks
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Old 09-17-2017, 10:18 PM   #15
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You should know your temps before spending money unnecessarily. Either way, you'll need an oil temp gauge anyway. These engines tend to run oil cooler compared to most turbo engines. Using an oil cooler with a thermostatic valve does not assure the oil will not overcool (which can be just as bad as overheated) since the valve never closes completely. It also increases the time it takes for the oil to get up to temperature.
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:37 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Using an oil cooler with a thermostatic valve does not assure the oil will not overcool (which can be just as bad as overheated) since the valve never closes completely. It also increases the time it takes for the oil to get up to temperature.
Whoa wait I didn't know this, the oil is never completely shut off even with the thermostat? So there's always some flow?
I was wondering what all the oil in the cooler would do when it was allowed to re-enter my engine, dramatic dips in temps or a gradual opening of the valve to prevent that or what. Tell me more sir!
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:48 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomchakalaka View Post
Yeah it's just an old engine, I don't have any other signs of running rich, oil gets thick as all hell too. She jus dirty lol

What about thermostats. I'd prefer to not buy one n I already warm up my engine, but can the winter months cause issues? Anyone with a thermostatic unit out there??

do you have a oil temp gauge to see what temps you are running?
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:34 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
do you have a oil temp gauge to see what temps you are running?
I do! So normal driving around town she runs between 225 and 235 but during my job it can spike towards 260 which scares me. I got the gauge because I do leak oil and I'd wait for my temps to climb and top her off lol leaking from the valve covers. I tried tightening the bolts n it slowed it somewhat but that's a different thread. And again this is an old engine ive put over 200k on her.
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:08 PM   #19
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220 to 260 F is the NORMAL oil temperature range. Stop concerning yourself over stuff that is not a concern.
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomchakalaka View Post
Whoa wait I didn't know this, the oil is never completely shut off even with the thermostat? So there's always some flow?
I was wondering what all the oil in the cooler would do when it was allowed to re-enter my engine, dramatic dips in temps or a gradual opening of the valve to prevent that or what. Tell me more sir!
This is a big problem in some Lotus Elise and Exige cars. Early cars had 2 oil coolers up front and indeed, oil was overcooled. They had an oil line issue that eventually led to recall and since Lotus is small, it took years to get replacement parts to dealers. The most common fix (which I did) was to remove the sandwich, install a toyota stub and run an oil filter with no cooler. For a street car, this worked absolutely fine. Track run cars couldn't do this. There is a HUGE difference between track driving and street driving. On the track, when you're not trying to boil brake fluid, you're usually wide open. That doesn't happen during street driving.
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:47 PM   #21
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You live in Vermont so if you do install an oil cooler kit or home made job you absolutley need the thermostat. Not sure I agree with 260 oil temp being normal. What you want to do is keep your oil temps no more than 30 degrees above your water temp.
And just food for thought, high oil temps when not racing tend to point towards worn bearings which is very likely at your mileage.

Last edited by STi320; 09-18-2017 at 01:48 PM. Reason: mad typos
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomchakalaka View Post
Whoa wait I didn't know this, the oil is never completely shut off even with the thermostat? So there's always some flow?
Correct, the valve is never closed to prevent shocking with a release of stone cold oil. There is always SOME oil circulating through the oil cooler. In your climate I would recommend using dry break fittings, a ball valve or blocking off airflow for winter use to prevent overcooling the oil.

Also, as STi320 has said, if you're experiencing 260 under 'normal' driving you likely have either a gauge/sensor issue, or the engine is very worn. Adding oil based on oil temps creeping up is also not a good idea as it's reactive. Check your oil often so this NEVER happens
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi320 View Post
You live in Vermont so if you do install an oil cooler kit or home made job you absolutley need the thermostat. Not sure I agree with 260 oil temp being normal. What you want to do is keep your oil temps no more than 30 degrees above your water temp.
And just food for thought, high oil temps when not racing tend to point towards worn bearings which is very likely at your mileage.
It's definitely not the normal reading so idk, only when I've got her loaded up n running for my job. I'll go with the thermostat sandwich plate thank you :-) this is something that I can then move on over to my new(er) engine once I've done the rebuild, not bothering with this old thing anymore, just want it.to chill lols

Thank you everyone. Kit ordered, $200 bucks.
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Correct, the valve is never closed to prevent shocking with a release of stone cold oil. There is always SOME oil circulating through the oil cooler. In your climate I would recommend using dry break fittings, a ball valve or blocking off airflow for winter use to prevent overcooling the oil.
You're awesome!!!
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