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07-15-2019, 08:01 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 493859
Join Date: Nov 2018
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: >> N. Dallas<<
Vehicle:06 WRX TD Swapped sorta black-ish |
Wheel Width for Track Use?
My 06 project WRX has sustained non-repairable wheel damage. This means I'm going to have to source a new set, the wheels I have are apparently too damn rare to find a replacement.
This puts me at a cross roads. Do I stick with the wheel size I have that stays within the fenders (18x8.5 @45) or opt for flares and wide wheels. Still learning subaru's and don't really know how these cars respond to wide I.E. 11" wheels. I don't really want to buy wheels and tires now only to buy them again in the future. Buy once cry once eh? I'm not opposed to spending the money if the benefits are there. My motorsports background is motorcycle racing. The car racing thing is new to me and I'm just getting started. I don't currently have a plan to attack a specific class of racing. Part of it for me is just enjoying building a capable machine. Currently the car is swapped to an STI drivetrain with 114.3'x5's, the 6spd, dccd, Spiider, Coilovers, ALK, Hi caster control arms, all the drive line and suspension bushings changed to superpro etc. Goal is a track worthy car. Currently engine is running 350whp/340wtq with a goal this fall/winter of going to 450-500ish. Mods with wheel choice will include carbon drive shaft and reducing front end weight (oswald). Trying to make good decisions that enhance track performance. What say you?
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07-16-2019, 09:35 AM | #2 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi Sparkly |
I'd say buy a cheaper set of 17x9's. Cheaper tires available there in a 255/40/17 and more money for other mods. 11's and 12's work, but the work to fit them is pretty considerable and the tires are a lot more too.
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07-16-2019, 10:11 AM | #3 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 493859
Join Date: Nov 2018
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: >> N. Dallas<<
Vehicle:06 WRX TD Swapped sorta black-ish |
The "current" set I have is 18x8.5 with 255's seated quite well.
Yes cost is a factor, but I guess what I'm really asking is if the chassis and car in general would see a large benefit to the wide set-up? The car isn't going to win any car shows... It's 2-3 different colors of black with some rattle can effect thrown in. LOL. Flaring wouldn't be for looks, trust me. Been looking around at what local guys run. Wide as possible in the stock configuration. Corvettes, mopar, mustangs, miatas, brz's etc. The only Subies I have seen are running in the stock fenders. Except there is one 04 STI running 11's. Of course people like to justify their own decisions, and he says the wide set-up made a dramatic difference. Poor for street driving with added bump steer, but the track benefits were worth it. Or so he says. |
07-16-2019, 10:54 AM | #4 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi Sparkly |
There's a lot of other questions that would need to be answered before I'd say go wide. Personally, in autox I run 18x12's and believe wider is better, but for track driving it's more of a "it depends" type of answer. The car will benefit, yes, but you'll see other issues. You shouldn't see bump steer issues unless you change the roll center. You would see scrub radius issues, but those are not that big on track, or not as big as people say.
If cost is an issue the 17" tires are a lot cheaper, and there's a lot of 9's out there, and with a 255 you'll get a bit more feedback from the tire vs an 8.5 (not a lot). As you add rubber, you generally add grip, which adds body roll, so you can run mildly stiffer springs, and now you're going faster so you'll see the brake system take a bit more of a beating, and then you'll see aero start to come into play which again adds speed and starts the cycle over again. Not to mention the more grip you have the more differentials come into play. EDIT: I didn't mention engine oiling issues either. As grip goes up, so do the oiling system problems. Running 200 TW, no real aero, and not as wide of tires reduces lateral grip (obviously) and most people don't see as much oil starve on track. On big tires, aero, lots of optimized bits, you'll start to see people burn up engines as they put more G loads through the car. All of that to say, grip is good, more grip is better, but it's part of a system so just adding really wide rubber isn't going to make the car super fast. It will go faster, but you'll start running into other issues and until you develop it as a system you won't be able to really take advantage of 10's on up. Hence my recommendation for 9's and 255's while you get the rest of the car sorted. Last edited by subydude; 07-16-2019 at 12:16 PM. |
07-16-2019, 11:03 AM | #5 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 493859
Join Date: Nov 2018
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: >> N. Dallas<<
Vehicle:06 WRX TD Swapped sorta black-ish |
Now that's a darn fine answer right there! Thx Subydude.
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07-22-2019, 12:22 PM | #6 | |
Scooby Newbie
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Location: Bethlehem,PA
Vehicle:PSM 05 WRX WGN 5MT 95 Caprice 6spd Track Rat |
Quote:
So I've been planning on picking up an extra set of wheels do to some track days and AX in my '05 WRX wagon on stock suspension. I'm planning on swaybars before then as well. You don't think I'd see any oiling issues running 225ish RE71R or other sticky 200TW 'street' tire? Probably sticking to 7.5"-8.5" rim width to stay on the cheaper side of most used wheels in the area. My other car has seen years of track duty and AX on 200TW tires with a stock pan/oiling system, and been fine, but certainly not an apples to apples comparison. Last edited by WhiteZombie; 07-22-2019 at 12:30 PM. |
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07-22-2019, 01:30 PM | #7 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi Sparkly |
Quote:
Most oiling issues come from tires in the 265 and up range on reasonably well sorted suspensions with cooling mods that let the car run longer, faster, and harder. A lot of oiling issues seen on stockish cars are more from people not checking oil between sessions cause these cars WILL push oil out even on mostly stock hardware if you're driving hard. A full oil pan at the start of the track day doesn't mean it stays full during. An AOS, or extra oil is a good solution there. Extra oil is a lot cheaper though if you're just getting started. Shameless plug, I have a 2.5 pan I took off a car recently if you're interested for cheap. |
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07-22-2019, 02:00 PM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
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MWSOC
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Vehicle:04.7 STI WRB IG @got2boostit2 |
Pictures of the unobtainium.
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07-22-2019, 02:22 PM | #9 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 80649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Columbia, SC
Vehicle:2000 2.5 Auto-X RSTi Sparkly |
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09-14-2019, 05:28 PM | #10 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 493859
Join Date: Nov 2018
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: >> N. Dallas<<
Vehicle:06 WRX TD Swapped sorta black-ish |
Checking back in on the thread. After consideration I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on 18x11's. Autoxing will be much more frequent than track. Tires TW200 (Re-71's)
Suidude, can you clarify the "later 2.5" pan? How later? Or do you mean the std 2.5 pan as the 2.5 superseded the 2.0? I'm running a 2006 WRX pan at the moment. Last edited by pazzoduc; 09-14-2019 at 06:49 PM. |
09-14-2019, 08:12 PM | #11 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
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SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:2004 WRX wagon silver |
Quote:
http://949racing.com/17x9-6UL.aspx |
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09-15-2019, 10:22 AM | #12 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 493859
Join Date: Nov 2018
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: >> N. Dallas<<
Vehicle:06 WRX TD Swapped sorta black-ish |
Absolutely.
I don't have delusions of keeping up with "the big boys". I could have bought a used corvette and put less money into it and probly had better results for track use. Primary goal is "FUN FACTOR". The modified hawkeye is tons of fun and very few around running GD body subis these days, at least around here. If I was serious about competing I'd probly run a DOT-r as well, but my resources aren't infinite, though ample enough. Currently thinking 18x11 Konig hypergrams with 285/30 Re-71's. I'd support 949 but the 6UL 18" apparently isn't an option, and If I'm going wide 17" tire sizes don't seem to work out. The Hypergrams are #20.69 with an RE-71 #27 that's #47.69 per corner with the added benefit of a 24.76 OD. 24.76 is 17" territory but a 18" is a weight disadvantage due to the added width from a 255 to a 285. |
09-19-2019, 11:54 PM | #13 |
Scooby Guru
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Vehicle:2003 SOHC destroker |
you can fit up to 265's without flares. some 9's or 9.5's will fit fine with the right offset.
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09-20-2019, 12:03 PM | #14 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:2004 WRX wagon silver |
Quote:
Doesnt that cause alot of slop? Last edited by subaru_gc8; 09-20-2019 at 12:11 PM. |
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09-20-2019, 11:02 PM | #15 |
Scooby Newbie
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I have fun on falken azentis 615k + 215/45/17 with eneki 17x7's . I'm in STS class and limited to 225 as what I can go for wide size. it all depends on what you want to do with the car. it can be a slippy slope. are you wanted to do hpde or solo.
your in DFW right. I'd go see what squid shawn owner of kraken motorsports can do for you. I think he runs a 265 as his daily and a 315 as his track/solo tires. |
09-21-2019, 10:43 PM | #16 | |
Scooby Guru
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Vehicle:2003 SOHC destroker |
Quote:
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09-23-2019, 06:42 PM | #17 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 493859
Join Date: Nov 2018
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: >> N. Dallas<<
Vehicle:06 WRX TD Swapped sorta black-ish |
Quote:
HA! Yeah I know Rizzo. He has done a ton and will be doing more. Lets just say the car has some "issues" that put me out of most classes. I'm primarily set up for AX, but also have an eye for HDPE. Everything is a compromise. ONe wheel width, one tire for doing everything. I don't know why thats such an issue... HAHA. |
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09-25-2019, 10:58 AM | #18 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:2004 WRX wagon silver |
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09-25-2019, 04:24 PM | #19 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 12029
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Sterling, VA
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We have a lot of track customers on our 17x9" Mach V Awesome wheels. They are Subaru hubcentric, and dual-drilled with both Subaru bolt patterns. They are light and tough.
(Uh...they are strong, but do try to avoid this...) Dan Mach V FastWRX.com |
02-21-2020, 11:06 PM | #20 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 466171
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Sorry to revive this old topic but I'm looking for similar advice for a 15+ WRX.
I'm in the market for new wheels but unsure what would be best for track use (HPDE). Sorry if this has been answered but I've scoured the 15+ wheel fit threads and just couldn't find this specific question. Most people seem to go for 18x9.5 +35 as there's a LOT of aftermarket options and it just looks good but it's also right on the cusp of needing fenders rolled which I'm trying to avoid. Since some people in that thread experience rubbing and some don't with that spec, I'm feeling like the chances are I may have problems with that fitment pushing the car harder on track. My car is on stock suspension but I'm likely to install street/track coilovers in the near future. Does anyone with track experience have any recommendations for what is best for performance and a "safe" fitment without needing fender work? Many thanks (again, really sorry if this has been answered in another thread, I've tried really hard to find the info) |
02-22-2020, 09:56 AM | #21 |
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What part of the country are you in? Rolling fenders flat is pretty simple, and I would be willing to bet that there is someone near you that can do that for you. On VA Chassis (2015+), it's really just the rears that need to be rolled flat. The fronts you can get away with for awhile.
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02-22-2020, 12:20 PM | #22 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 493859
Join Date: Nov 2018
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: >> N. Dallas<<
Vehicle:06 WRX TD Swapped sorta black-ish |
Regardless of year, I went through the same evaluation, and still really have not decided for this reason:
Tire availability and cost. After evaluating tire options and what I can tell of tire life for my car (High HP) I'm still on fence about final wheel size. You can buy wheels once. But tires (and brakes) are going to be a cost factor for sure. After surfing around for a significant amount of time I think I will end up with two sets wheels. One for street/Auto-x and one for HPDE. The HPDE set will likely be sourced to fit available used race take-offs. I know that isn't a specific answer for you, but hopefully helps. |
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