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Old 04-23-2018, 01:06 AM   #1
jkc107
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Default Warning/help me - microfiber scratching clear coat

Just washed my wifeís new GTI at home with new microfiber towels. The same ones I use on my silver WRX. Washed it during the day and everything looked fine until I got gas at night and saw this madness. Does anyone know if this is permanent? If not, any suggestions on how I can fix this? Preferably before my wife sees...
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:04 AM   #2
vapore0n
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How do you know it was the microfiber towel and not the sponge you used?

I use a double bucket method for washing my car. One for rinsing, one for washing. A microfiber washing sponge thingy, plenty of soap for lube (:yeah), a leaf blower for drying, and then some quick detailer + microfiber for removing any left over spots of water.

Having a proper coating of something (sealant, wax) helps with preventing swirls too.

Those swirls are all removable. You do need to buff them out though. I suggest reading about using a porter cable random orbital buffer + pads (I suggest orange then white) + polish liquid + sealant to top it off.
Yeah, it can be overwhelming to keep your car nice, but once done it should be easier to maintain.

Also, Im sure your car has the same swirls. Silver hides them better.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:11 AM   #3
MtnXfreeride
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Looks like typical car wash swirling.. but I would bet it was whatever was used to wash the car, not the microfiber. If the Subaru handles it with its soft paint it probably isn't the microfiber.

I would get a dual action polisher like this:
https://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-.../dp/B002654I46


and you should only need a light cutting/polishing and a final finishing compounds:
https://www.chemicalguys.com/V36_Cut...p_vkit_101.htm

and for pads.. probably just a medium cutting pad and a softer buffing pad (orange/white):
https://www.chemicalguys.com/Hex_Log...ufx114hex6.htm

https://www.chemicalguys.com/Hex_Log...ufx112hex6.htm

The GTI has a pretty flowy boring exterior - few flares/aggressive corners/paneling so you might not need to buy a smaller 3" backing plate and 3" pads.

You'll want to wash, clay bar and possibly IronX (if you have a lot of brake dust on the sides) before you get to buffing... you'll want a good coating to protect the paint after you do all this work... expensive but you'll have the basics to fix it again and again.



I also use 2 buckets to wash.. you'll notice that the rinse bucket is brown after a wash but the second bucket still is clear. I use a microfiber mitt and a foam cannon to apply soap as lube.

Lately Ive been using a pH basic soap in my cannon (from walmart.. vehicle/boat wash by the gallon) because it works so much better than pH neutral soap - the downside is you need to apply a coating after every wash to make water bead and stay cleaner/wash easy next wash... either spray wax or spray sealant last long enough for me and they tend to have drying agents that help you dry the car after a wash (I still use a blower or waffle weaving drying towel first to get the majority of my hard water off).
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:49 AM   #4
MarcWinkman
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As others have stated, that doesn't look to be from the microfiber towels. That's more likely from wash media. Invest in two new 5 gallon buckets, a grit guard for each, some wash pads (Adam's Polishes makes good wash pads), good pH neutral soap (and don't be afraid to use a lot of it) and to remove the swirls, a good random orbit polisher, some good pads and polishes. If you're new to using a random orbit polisher to remove swirls, be sure that whatever polishes you select have diminishing abrasives so that you don't take off more clear than you want to. I would recommend Lake Country Pads and Menzerna Polishes. For sealant, Wolfgang is a sure shot. Easy to work with and has good durability.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:56 PM   #5
jkc107
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Thanks for the responses. Iím sure itís my microfiber towels because when I wash with soap I never do it in a circular motion. Only my drying is done that way. Iím going to take your suggestions and try to buff it out with a polish of some sorts. Iím sure amazon will have something.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:12 PM   #6
MarcWinkman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc107 View Post
Thanks for the responses. Iím sure itís my microfiber towels because when I wash with soap I never do it in a circular motion. Only my drying is done that way. Iím going to take your suggestions and try to buff it out with a polish of some sorts. Iím sure amazon will have something.
In that case, toss your current microfiber towels and get some new ones. Invest in some good waffle weave microfiber towels and dry in straight lines starting at the top. Let the weight of the towel do the work for you. No need to go in circles to dry. Also dry indoors if possible to prevent the wind from blowing crud all on the car to get trapped between your drying towel and car to potentially cause surface marring.
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Old 04-23-2018, 03:20 PM   #7
TMalo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc107 View Post
Thanks for the responses. Iím sure itís my microfiber towels because when I wash with soap I never do it in a circular motion. Only my drying is done that way. Iím going to take your suggestions and try to buff it out with a polish of some sorts. Iím sure amazon will have something.
Don't waste your time trying to polish by hand. You will not get the results you are after. Harbor Freight sells a cheap dual action polisher.
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:52 PM   #8
cerbomark
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https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-panamera.html

I have had the same issues and I think mine was caused by a salt/sand/grit winter environment where I live. Do you live in those conditions? So as stated above it needs to be soaked down and softened before rubbing it around on the paint. That will correct . I use the Porter Cable too. If the above link shows you can see the door pics that I did 1/2 on to show the difference. Good luck. Let me know if you want to buy a used polisher with all the attachments?
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:57 PM   #9
cerbomark
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FYI< that wasn t a one time thing. Those swirls build up more and more as it get washed, dried etc...
Who knows how the dealer washed it too. They are famous for wiping down a dry car which is the worst.
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:54 PM   #10
jeffk182
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Drying is when a lot of scratches happen. Personally, i've been using AMMO Hydrate as a drying agent and still have 0 swirl marks. I wash my car once a week and only polish the paint once a year. The key is to not apply any pressure and let the towels absorb. AMMO hydrate acts as a lubricant to allow the towel to glide over the surface better and also adds a small layer of sealant. Look it up on youtube and decide if it's worth it to you.
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:58 PM   #11
jkc107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerbomark View Post
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-panamera.html

I have had the same issues and I think mine was caused by a salt/sand/grit winter environment where I live. Do you live in those conditions? So as stated above it needs to be soaked down and softened before rubbing it around on the paint. That will correct . I use the Porter Cable too. If the above link shows you can see the door pics that I did 1/2 on to show the difference. Good luck. Let me know if you want to buy a used polisher with all the attachments?


I donít live anywhere near those conditions. If my polish doesnít work out Iíll let you know. Thanks!
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:01 PM   #12
jkc107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffk182 View Post
Drying is when a lot of scratches happen. Personally, i've been using AMMO Hydrate as a drying agent and still have 0 swirl marks. I wash my car once a week and only polish the paint once a year. The key is to not apply any pressure and let the towels absorb. AMMO hydrate acts as a lubricant to allow the towel to glide over the surface better and also adds a small layer of sealant. Look it up on youtube and decide if it's worth it to you.


Oh shoot. I wonder if thatís what happened. I donít recall how wet or dry the paint was while going over the car. Iím going to have to be mindful of that next time
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:24 PM   #13
Snellicus
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Every spring i would get my car out, power wash, clay bar, wash and wax. Used a squeegie, compressed air and shammies to dry it. Now i have a vinyl wrap and i do the same bur no clay bar and no wax.
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Old 04-28-2018, 04:44 AM   #14
RexKwonDo
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You know if your towels/wash mitt/sponge are dropped on the ground that you shouldn't continue using them, right? (For some people it would seem obvious but I'm not that surprised when I see people still make this mistake). It looks like a REALLY dirty towel or sponge was used on the hood in the photo...

Proper care of your microfiber towels is really important, how do you wash your towels after they've been used?

https://www.detailedimage.com/Auto-D...crofiber-Care/


Also, when you wash/dry the vehicle with any sort of physical media, you want to work in straight lines, ideally from front to back, and with very minimal pressure (almost like you're just lightly dragging the towel across the panel)...I always try to move in the direction that air flows over the vehicle. Using circles or the Miyagi technique was an idea that I think got embedded in a lot of people's minds as being the correct method to wash or wax a car, but really all it does is create the type of swirls you're seeing.

Personally I use (and would recommend to anyone) a McKee's 37 Turbo Car Dryer for the majority of my car, the less you have anything physically touching the car, the less likely you are to induce scratches and swirls. Hands-down one of my top 3 favorite detailing products I bought last year.

And for the record, if you've never done any paint correction, you may want to get an estimate from a local detailing professional. It's a considerable investment financially for the DA, the pads, polishes, clay bar, etc. and while a random orbital isn't going to be nearly as risky as putting a rotary polisher in the hands of someone without experience, it's not entirely fool proof, either. This isn't as simple as buying a tube of some magic polish from AutoZone and spending twenty minutes buffing the hood by hand...it's a significant time investment if you want to truly remove that damage and make the paint look new again. I would almost recommend paying a detailer to do the paint correction, and investing in products that will help you minimize the chances of having this happen again (i.e. 2 buckets, grit guards, nice microfiber wash mitts, Griot's Garage PFM drying towels, the air dryer I mentioned above, and so on) and getting familiar with the best techniques for maintenance washes and applying a quality wax or sealant.

I think sometimes people (and even videos from some of the pros) make it sound/look easier than it is...not saying it's brain surgery, but it's not just making a sandwich, either. If you do opt to go the DIY route to fix these swirls, read up thoroughly and watch a bunch of YouTube videos, and practice on an old beater or junkyard body panel first if at all possible!
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:01 PM   #15
willypm
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Wash, clay bar and seal with your favorite sealant .
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:11 AM   #16
BlueBellThunder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexKwonDo View Post
You know if your towels/wash mitt/sponge are dropped on the ground that you shouldn't continue using them, right? (For some people it would seem obvious but I'm not that surprised when I see people still make this mistake). It looks like a REALLY dirty towel or sponge was used on the hood in the photo...

Proper care of your microfiber towels is really important, how do you wash your towels after they've been used?

https://www.detailedimage.com/Auto-D...crofiber-Care/

How to Wash Microfiber Towels PROPERLY - YouTube

Also, when you wash/dry the vehicle with any sort of physical media, you want to work in straight lines, ideally from front to back, and with very minimal pressure (almost like you're just lightly dragging the towel across the panel)...I always try to move in the direction that air flows over the vehicle. Using circles or the Miyagi technique was an idea that I think got embedded in a lot of people's minds as being the correct method to wash or wax a car, but really all it does is create the type of swirls you're seeing.

Personally I use (and would recommend to anyone) a McKee's 37 Turbo Car Dryer for the majority of my car, the less you have anything physically touching the car, the less likely you are to induce scratches and swirls. Hands-down one of my top 3 favorite detailing products I bought last year.

And for the record, if you've never done any paint correction, you may want to get an estimate from a local detailing professional. It's a considerable investment financially for the DA, the pads, polishes, clay bar, etc. and while a random orbital isn't going to be nearly as risky as putting a rotary polisher in the hands of someone without experience, it's not entirely fool proof, either. This isn't as simple as buying a tube of some magic polish from AutoZone and spending twenty minutes buffing the hood by hand...it's a significant time investment if you want to truly remove that damage and make the paint look new again. I would almost recommend paying a detailer to do the paint correction, and investing in products that will help you minimize the chances of having this happen again (i.e. 2 buckets, grit guards, nice microfiber wash mitts, Griot's Garage PFM drying towels, the air dryer I mentioned above, and so on) and getting familiar with the best techniques for maintenance washes and applying a quality wax or sealant.

I think sometimes people (and even videos from some of the pros) make it sound/look easier than it is...not saying it's brain surgery, but it's not just making a sandwich, either. If you do opt to go the DIY route to fix these swirls, read up thoroughly and watch a bunch of YouTube videos, and practice on an old beater or junkyard body panel first if at all possible!
I actually bought the McKee 37 and returned it. The hose was difficult to maneuver. Iím on the fence about getting the metro vac master blaster revolution. It has a much narrower hose. Iím just trying to justify the $419 price. I did order a cheap leaf blower from Amazon that Iím going to try this weekend. I donít think itíll be the same, but if it doesnít work, Iíll use it for blowing the leafs and my current leaf blower for vacuuming the leaves.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:35 AM   #17
Valantia
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All of the other guys who posted here offered you some genuinely amazing advice. I just want to add to their efforts by suggesting one of the following applications.

Once the marks are removed, typically the professionals who would apply these would remove them for you, you can help prevent them by applying one of the following to the car.

1) Ceramic Coating

2) Vinyl Wrapping

3) Xpel Protective Film

Some of these are much more expensive than others and vary from each installer. You can apply them yourself if you so choose but be wary they require a very meticulous, careful process. They are a nice way to protect your paint if you want a more permanent solution.
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:48 PM   #18
GarrettPlusBugeye
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The best advice I could give is to look up AmmoNyc videos on YouTube. His videos on car detailing, paint care, and general auto cleanliness are above and beyond the standard of quality others hold. He'll teach you some great methods.
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Old 05-20-2018, 11:00 AM   #19
get_schwifty
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Any update on how it came out?

I've had a lot of luck using M105/M205 for defect removal in combination with a DA and yellow/orange and white/blue Lake Country flat pads. While M105 is for severe defect removal and a little unfriendly to work with due to stupid short buffing cycles, heavy dusting, and you hating yourself if you let it dry, M205 is quite friendly and does a stellar job at removing swirls (IMO far better than UP), and while I have far less experience than others here, it's the most versatile compound I've ever used. Even with harder paint like what I believe Audi uses, and moderate defects, when paired with a moderately more aggressive pad (such as a white) and longer buffing cycles, you can still remove these defects with a DA and finish flawlessly.

This was the outcome I got the first time I used M105/M205, and these were with holograms that were so deep that Ultimate Polish did not remove it and Ultimate Compound was working so slow I switched to the M105/M205 system so that I would finish before the end of the fiscal year - so it's a pretty easy system to use if you are patient and prime/lubricate/clean the pads properly. I've gotten even better outcomes since

Before correction


After M105 applied with a 5-inch orange LCC pad and a DA


After M205 applied with a 5-inch orange LCC pad and a DA


End result after sealant

Last edited by get_schwifty; 05-20-2018 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:02 AM   #20
RexKwonDo
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Nice results for sure, but I'm just not a fan of the M105/205 combo, IMO they've been surpassed by newer and better products. I've also used Chemical Guys V-line which was just sort of "meh". Personally I've found the Griot's Garage BOSS line to be the best bang for buck, minimal dusting, and requires fewer passes to get the job done. Really good stuff.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:06 AM   #21
MarcWinkman
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For paint correction, I'm a big fan of the Menzerna lineup. FG400 for moderate to heavy defects followed by SF3500 to finish. I also really like the Sonax product lineup, Profiline Cut Max for moderate to slightly more severe defects followed by Profiline 4/6 as a finishing polish. Clean up afterward with IPA or Gyeon Prep and follow with your coating, sealant, or wax of choice.
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