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Old 07-12-2018, 05:30 PM   #101
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With the next STI coming later than I thought, at least I'll be able to test drive that and the next RS and R at the same time and they'll be new at the same time. Assuming of course the RS lags behind the ST only slightly and doesn't arrive at the end of the cycle. Also assuming there will be a new STI...


Will be fascinating to see how Subaru competes with VW and Ford next time around...
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:43 PM   #102
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Subaru does make a bespoke WRX body. They just call it Levorg.
Thanks for the kick in the nuts.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:45 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
...
With the SGP I'd think Subaru could design something more unique with the WRX, but I think they'll save money by continuing to share the design with the Impreza.
Yeah I agree. Didn’t they acknowledge the VA wasn’t styled as true to concept as it could’ve been? Something about being able to design it better this time around? Or am I recalling wrong and just doing some wishful thinking haha.

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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I had a call at the station and posted before I was finished. The "I don't drive a VW R, It's a Golf R." statement. Sure, VW chooses not to change the name. Certainly they could. Also, is "R", by itself, as synonymous and recognized as WRX or STI? Didn't VW have other models with an "R" designation? That could get confusing. Yes, Subaru has used STi on other models; but, not in the states, and that was well before they "separated" Impreza from the name.

I could see it on it's own "normal" 5 year cycle now. If they are going as far as enhancing the chassis each time as they did last time. If not, then WTF?

Would be interesting considering Toyota seemed to ask for a convertible and it was said Subaru flatly said no.
...
Funny thing about the Golf R is that it doesn’t say Golf anywhere on the car. To non-enthusiasts who don’t know the subtle styling cues, it looks exactly like a regular Golf, yet it only gets a stand-alone R... why leave Golf out of the visual branding? At least the WRX/STI can’t be mistaken for an Impreza.

Yeah I can see a 5 year thing happening, which is why I’m not ruling out MY20 jump just yet. Basically no one knows... we’ll see it when we see it. Though I kinda doubt they’d enhance the SGP. The whole point is to cut costs with one platform and enhancements just adds back cost.

And it’s interesting about the brz. I’d like to see it get on the SGP so hopefully it’s in the cards.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:57 PM   #104
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Subaru should just skip their next design plan for the WRX and use the idea they have after THAT one. That way it's technically two designs ahead and then the design is both relevant and remains so.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:08 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Subaru should just skip their next design plan for the WRX and use the idea they have after THAT one. That way it's technically two designs ahead and then the design is both relevant and remains so.
They are likely already doing that by tying the Impreza refresh in with the WRX.
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:58 AM   #106
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This thread is a week or so old now... thats means we could be less than one year away now :P
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:25 AM   #107
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They can take as long as they want. Because I'm sure I'll want to buy whatever they're cooking up. And that's not a good decision for me right now.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:11 AM   #108
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With the next STI coming later than I thought, at least I'll be able to test drive that and the next RS and R at the same time and they'll be new at the same time. Assuming of course the RS lags behind the ST only slightly and doesn't arrive at the end of the cycle. Also assuming there will be a new STI...


Will be fascinating to see how Subaru competes with VW and Ford next time around...
They will all be hybrids. VAG has already said the R would be battery pack enabled, same for Ford with the next gen RS, and at this point it's doubtful another RS will grace our shores. Booby has also hinted at going hybrid on the next gen WRX/STI. If that doesn't appeal to you, I'd buy the RA motor 2019 STI. VAG has already said the next R will be DSG only and I wouldn't be surprised if the other two follow this due to battery packs.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:53 AM   #109
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Hybrid adds more weight than power. At this stage it’s pointless IMO in a compact body AWD performance car with current tech options. Look at how much a plain Jane Prius costs and how much it weighs. It doesn’t pencil out until Subaru is willing to ditch their AWD system in favor of some version of a hub motor setup. But by the time that is a viable option, Subaru will be last to the table with that setup as every larger menu will have something out there on the market. Easy AWD for all doesn’t bode well for Subaru.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:58 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
I had a call at the station and posted before I was finished. The "I don't drive a VW R, It's a Golf R." statement. Sure, VW chooses not to change the name. Certainly they could. Also, is "R", by itself, as synonymous and recognized as WRX or STI? Didn't VW have other models with an "R" designation? That could get confusing. Yes, Subaru has used STi on other models; but, not in the states, and that was well before they "separated" Impreza from the name.
Fair enough. I don't think there's any other official R models out yet, but they are planning on releasing more over seas... the T-Roc, Tiguan, and Arteon will be getting the R treatment.

There are no other R models in the US though. There are "R-Line" models, similar to what Subaru has done, or at least said they would do, with the sti? but no R's.

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Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
Funny thing about the Golf R is that it doesn't say Golf anywhere on the car. To non-enthusiasts who don't know the subtle styling cues, it looks exactly like a regular Golf, yet it only gets a stand-alone R... why leave Golf out of the visual branding? At least the WRX/STI can't be mistaken for an Impreza.
Probably because they know everyone would pull the golf badges off on day one... Honestly, I was torn on keeping the R on there or not, but ultimately decided to leave it. I'd pull the front fender badges off today if I could since I think they're tacky, but my xpel film is cut around them...
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:27 PM   #111
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They will all be hybrids. VAG has already said the R would be battery pack enabled, same for Ford with the next gen RS, and at this point it's doubtful another RS will grace our shores. Booby has also hinted at going hybrid on the next gen WRX/STI. If that doesn't appeal to you, I'd buy the RA motor 2019 STI. VAG has already said the next R will be DSG only and I wouldn't be surprised if the other two follow this due to battery packs.
There will be another RS. With how well they sold, I'm sure they would consider selling in the NA again.

If there is speculation on if the next RS will be a hybrid, I don't think it will be in the upcoming RS. It takes 4-5 years to engineer and release a vehicle with 2-3 years between engine recycles. The current RS was probably engineered back in 2011. The next gen one was probably started like a year or two ago. Ford would not be stupid enough to scrap 1-2 years of work to change fill the speculation of a hybrid going on now.

Ford is a little on the conservative side, so I don't expect a hybrid performance engine on a low selling vehicle right off the bat. It may come in during a refresh.

For VW, I can totally see them doing this. I honestly hope that it doesn't come until MK9. The upcoming MK8 may be the last, driver's oriented golf platform that we get. I read somewhere that by MK9, VW will be on the automated train by then. I have my own doubts on that, but we shall see.

Can't say much on the Subaru end. They are a niche company so all the automotive stuff I know from larger companies don't always apply in the same way.
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:39 PM   #112
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VAG has already said the next R will be DSG only and I wouldn't be surprised if the other two follow this due to battery packs.
That's not necessarily true.

For one, there's no indication that the north american R will be losing the manual transmission, Canadian R build sheets apparently are out, with no indication that there's a loss of the manual transmission.

What happened though, is in VW dropped the manual R, likely temporarily. In September WLTP standards are replacing DEDC standards, I think in all of Europe? VW has to re-test every single car and configuration that it makes. Given that the MK8 golf comes out in Europe next year, they're likely to just have a one year hiatus on the manual. It remains to be seen what happens for the MK8 R. Guaranteed they're developing a manual for the GTI because the European take rate for that is huge and it WILL be certified on the WLTP standards, and considering that the manual in the R is no different than the one in the GTI, the US will likely still get that option. Whether or not they can meet the new WLTP standards or not with the manual in the MK8 R remains to be seen.

long story short... no they have not said that the manual R is dead. They did say that it will likely be electrified though. Probably keeping the same 300hp petrol motor but with an electronic rear differential in place of the existing haldex unit. Golf R is already on a shared frame with the E-Golf (other golfs are on a different frame), so fitting some batteries would be easy.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:17 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Fatnslow View Post
There will be another RS. With how well they sold, I'm sure they would consider selling in the NA again.

If there is speculation on if the next RS will be a hybrid, I don't think it will be in the upcoming RS. It takes 4-5 years to engineer and release a vehicle with 2-3 years between engine recycles. The current RS was probably engineered back in 2011. The next gen one was probably started like a year or two ago. Ford would not be stupid enough to scrap 1-2 years of work to change fill the speculation of a hybrid going on now.

Ford is a little on the conservative side, so I don't expect a hybrid performance engine on a low selling vehicle right off the bat. It may come in during a refresh.

For VW, I can totally see them doing this. I honestly hope that it doesn't come until MK9. The upcoming MK8 may be the last, driver's oriented golf platform that we get. I read somewhere that by MK9, VW will be on the automated train by then. I have my own doubts on that, but we shall see.

Can't say much on the Subaru end. They are a niche company so all the automotive stuff I know from larger companies don't always apply in the same way.
Wrong on all accounts. The current RS, the Mk3, was designed over a very aggressive timeframe. It was designed over the 18-24 months before the 2016 release so earliest would have been late 2013, but IIRC it was 2014 dev started and they got it done quickly. There is a whole video series on development, and it was more aggressive than anything I have ever seen, so definitely didn't start in 2011. The car is so good because the dev team had 100% control and it mostly stayed out of the bean counters hands. Also, it didn't sell well here. The past 12 months have seen 3, 4, and 5k off MSRP.

The RS is Euro product and Ford Europe has said the next RS will be a hybrid. Euro emissions regs are very aggressive and all the companies releasing performance cars for the Euro market will have to continue to reduce emissions and they are all going to use battery/hybrid solutions to meet these metrics. VAG has said this, as well as Ford, and there have been hints from Subaru this will be the case with them as well.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:18 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
That's not necessarily true.

For one, there's no indication that the north american R will be losing the manual transmission, Canadian R build sheets apparently are out, with no indication that there's a loss of the manual transmission.

What happened though, is in VW dropped the manual R, likely temporarily. In September WLTP standards are replacing DEDC standards, I think in all of Europe? VW has to re-test every single car and configuration that it makes. Given that the MK8 golf comes out in Europe next year, they're likely to just have a one year hiatus on the manual. It remains to be seen what happens for the MK8 R. Guaranteed they're developing a manual for the GTI because the European take rate for that is huge and it WILL be certified on the WLTP standards, and considering that the manual in the R is no different than the one in the GTI, the US will likely still get that option. Whether or not they can meet the new WLTP standards or not with the manual in the MK8 R remains to be seen.

long story short... no they have not said that the manual R is dead. They did say that it will likely be electrified though. Probably keeping the same 300hp petrol motor but with an electronic rear differential in place of the existing haldex unit. Golf R is already on a shared frame with the E-Golf (other golfs are on a different frame), so fitting some batteries would be easy.
I literally just read an article this week where a VAG head said they are dropping the manual. I never said it was permanent only regurgitating what VAG, themselves, have stated publicly.
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:16 PM   #115
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I like what chano said about him wanting subie to base the next wrx on a next gen platform and not the current impreza. Then we'd get a brand new car with brand new interior, styling and tech. They wont do this though and instead we'll get a MY21 wrx which will feels 4 years dated (interior and exterior as there's only so much adding fenders does) as the Impreza is MY17. But they should base the next impreza off the next WRX I reckon. That would blow the industries mind.

Re hybrids for next RS and R... high probability on that one given execs been saying this. I think I'm ok with this personally. By then I'll be done with manuals in traffic. Yes more weight but if it's matched with 400hp (like rumoured) and a good auto tranny then sign me up.... the current WRX is way less fun than they used to be anyways.....
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:18 PM   #116
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Fair enough. I don't think there's any other official R models out yet, but they are planning on releasing more over seas... the T-Roc, Tiguan, and Arteon will be getting the R treatment.

There are no other R models in the US though. There are "R-Line" models, similar to what Subaru has done, or at least said they would do, with the sti? but no R's...


.
Ah. I thought I saw a CC "R" version at one point. Probably fake news. Like the fake STi we took in that the used car manager at the time saw the badges and gave the dude STi trade in value and it was an un-modded WRX. Made out like a bandit!
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:43 PM   #117
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I like what chano said about him wanting subie to base the next wrx on a next gen platform and not the current impreza. Then we'd get a brand new car with brand new interior, styling and tech. They wont do this though and instead we'll get a MY21 wrx which will feels 4 years dated (interior and exterior as there's only so much adding fenders does) as the Impreza is MY17. But they should base the next impreza off the next WRX I reckon. That would blow the industries mind.

Re hybrids for next RS and R... high probability on that one given execs been saying this. I think I'm ok with this personally. By then I'll be done with manuals in traffic. Yes more weight but if it's matched with 400hp (like rumoured) and a good auto tranny then sign me up.... the current WRX is way less fun than they used to be anyways.....
That was my other thought, too, is them making the Impreza more like the WRX. People would having the styling of the WRX, but it'd cost less. Although I know there'd be WRX owners who'd complain that the Impreza looks like the WRX. If it were mostly interior similarities that were more driver-focused with some similar tech I think that'd be a win for everyone.

I guess I just don't really know what an econobox performance interior is supposed to look like? I've always liked most interiors. However, I generally find VW/Audi interiors and anything upscale to be way too tech-heavy. Honda and Toyota are pretty simple layouts. The Ford Escape rental I had wasn't intuitive, especially with the steering wheel controls being backwards. Jeep puts their buttons in odd places.
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:43 PM   #118
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Ah. I thought I saw a CC "R" version at one point. Probably fake news. Like the fake STi we took in that the used car manager at the time saw the badges and gave the dude STi trade in value and it was an un-modded WRX. Made out like a bandit!


CC has an R-line trim, not true R.
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:54 PM   #119
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I literally just read an article this week where a VAG head said they are dropping the manual. I never said it was permanent only regurgitating what VAG, themselves, have stated publicly.
I'm now in the VW world. I have read all of these articles. VAG head said nothing, to my knowledge. If you have an article that has a quote, I'd love to see it. This is what's being circulated in the VW R circles (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...es-126763.html)

What is being reported is exactly what I stated above... that emissions regulations is requiring VW to re-test every single car they sell, and they're not re-testing the R manual for it's one remaining year before the MK8 comes out in Europe. This does not apply to US R's.

Not to say it won't happen, but that's not what's being reported. Manual R's languish on dealer's lots. Not sure what % manual vs dsg are sent to the US, but DSG clearly sells better.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:13 PM   #120
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...
Probably because they know everyone would pull the golf badges off on day one... Honestly, I was torn on keeping the R on there or not, but ultimately decided to leave it. I'd pull the front fender badges off today if I could since I think they're tacky, but my xpel film is cut around them...
I actually like the R! For these cars it looks better having that standalone designation... R, GTI, WRX, STI, RS... Though for the RS, I wish they left the Focus off. It looks so out of place. There are 3 different fonts on the back (Ford, focus, RS) and each stands out and doesn't look cohesive. And the Focus and RS badges aren't even in the same horizontal plane and aggravates my OCD tendencies but I digress...

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Old 07-13-2018, 10:55 PM   #121
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I'm now in the VW world. I have read all of these articles. VAG head said nothing, to my knowledge. If you have an article that has a quote, I'd love to see it. This is what's being circulated in the VW R circles (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...es-126763.html)

What is being reported is exactly what I stated above... that emissions regulations is requiring VW to re-test every single car they sell, and they're not re-testing the R manual for it's one remaining year before the MK8 comes out in Europe. This does not apply to US R's.

Not to say it won't happen, but that's not what's being reported. Manual R's languish on dealer's lots. Not sure what % manual vs dsg are sent to the US, but DSG clearly sells better.
i noticed that during my hunt. manuals in any color are easy enough to find. dsg makes it tougher and if you dont want red, black, or white you are really screwed. i got the last gray dsg in like a 700 mile radius.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:51 PM   #122
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Ah. I thought I saw a CC "R" version at one point. Probably fake news. Like the fake STi we took in that the used car manager at the time saw the badges and gave the dude STi trade in value and it was an un-modded WRX. Made out like a bandit!
How could this happen unless the sales manager was in on it? Don’t you guys run the VIN number and check car fax and stuff like that on any trade? I don’t see how that could happen just by mistake?
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:05 AM   #123
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Was this back in 2004? Subaru dealers back in the day weren't so demanding of VINs. Now they have to have it for pretty much everything.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:35 AM   #124
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They can take as long as they want. Because I'm sure I'll want to buy whatever they're cooking up. And that's not a good decision for me right now.
Totally agree. As much as I want this new wrx/sti to come out. I plan to order one the minute I can, and honestly it would be better for me if it was a year or two away lmfao
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:53 PM   #125
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How could this happen unless the sales manager was in on it? Don’t you guys run the VIN number and check car fax and stuff like that on any trade? I don’t see how that could happen just by mistake?

EVERYTHING now is VIN based. When this happened, not so much(at least at my dealer). Manager definitely wasn't in on it as he kicked himself for a while. It turned out to not be as bad. Someone knew the car and was willing to pay what we put in it. So, a wash was a good thing.
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