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Old 07-01-2019, 06:12 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default BMW plots major expansion of M performance range

In a development that harks back to its formative days and the Giorgetto Giugiaro-designed M1, BMW M is also looking at proposals for unique limited-run M models inspired by the Vision M Next concept, with a convertible version under consideration alongside the planned Ďreborn M1í coupť.

ďWe are investigating M variants that may also be stand-alone, that donít have a predecessor,Ē Flasch said at the launch of the BMW X3 M and X4 M when questioned on the future of the company.

On top of this, BMW M also plans to expand its number of hardcore CS models, starting with the new M2 CS in 2020.

A key driving force in BMWís decision to build on its current number of M models is the companyís R&D boss, Klaus FrŲhlich, who once led the engineering at Land Rover and has been a member of the BMW board since 2014.

In an about-turn on the current M model strategy, plans have now been approved for a new four-wheel-drive four-cylinder 1 Series with up to 400bhp, Autocar has learnt. The hot new model will go up against the strong-selling Audi RS3 and Mercedes-AMG A45, as well as the upcoming Volkswagen Golf R Plus.



At the other end of the line-up, a new range-topping M X8 model has been conceived as a competitor to the likes of the Audi RS8, the Mercedes-AMG GLE 63 and the Porsche Cayenne Turbo.

Upcoming M Performance models will continue to receive tuned versions of standard BMW engines in petrol, diesel and petrol-electric plug-in guises. However, future hardcore M models will run one of three key BMW M petrol engines from a modular driveline family similar to the one in place at Mercedes-AMG.

According to sources with knowledge of the plan, all future dedicated BMW M engines will receive a common 500cc cylinder capacity, with a 2.0-litre four-cylinder, updated 3.0-litre in-line six-cylinder and new 4.0-litre V8 set to underpin the range. The decision to base the new engines around a common architecture is claimed to speed up development and allow greater economies of scale in production.

In the middle of its range, BMW M will introduce new M3 and M4 models in 2020. They will feature an updated version of the existing twin-turbo 3.0-litre in-line six with up to 500bhp. Manual, automatic, rear-wheel drive and four-wheel drive options will be offered, according to insiders.

The firm is also planning to provide selected M Performance and M models with petrol-electric power. Although it is not yet official, engineering sources suggest plans are under way to establish a two-tier line-up of hybrid drivetrains.

The lower-powered hybrid drivetrains are set to be adopted by M Performance models, with the high-powered units planned for fully fledged M saloon and SUV models and set to be launched first.

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Old 07-01-2019, 08:11 AM   #2
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Give me the deets on the M2 CS!
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:23 AM   #3
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I’m lookin hard at the new M2C right now. Beautiful machine. Those brakes!

I think BMW needs to take the e-assisted steering out of entire M line.
What a transformation a quick-rack hydraulic unit would be in that car.
Or even just the C/CS models. Please?

They’ve got a silver loaded DCT model in right now, but have 5 more inbound.
I want to drive a 6MT base unit. That silver is a beautiful color in person.
Wish they had a proper blue instead of the green/blue.

@godfather2112 how has your experience been with the M2? Have you JB4d it yet?
You have 6MT or DCT?
After getting rid of my heavily tuned 135i, I’ve got the itch again real freakin bad.

Last edited by Brahmzy; 07-01-2019 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
I think BMW needs to take the e-assisted steering out of entire M line.
What a transformation a quick-rack hydraulic unit would be in that car.
Or even just the C/CS models. Please?
Have you spent any significant amount of time driving one? And by that I mean months of DD'ing one.

When I first got into my R, I was a little discouraged. But after having it for a few months, I got used to it's nuances. After a year, I get into a car with a hydraulic unit and it feels... different and not in a good way.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:01 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Iím lookin hard at the new M2C right now. Beautiful machine. Those brakes!

I think BMW needs to take the e-assisted steering out of entire M line.
What a transformation a quick-rack hydraulic unit would be in that car.
Or even just the C/CS models. Please?

Theyíve got a silver loaded DCT model in right now, but have 5 more inbound.
I want to drive a 6MT base unit. That silver is a beautiful color in person.
Wish they had a proper blue instead of the green/blue.

@godfather2112 how has your experience been with the M2? Have you JB4d it yet?
You have 6MT or DCT?
After getting rid of my heavily tuned 135i, Iíve got the itch again real freakin bad.
The 2016-2018 M2 are pretty maxed from the factory and adding a JB4 doesnít really do anything in term of netting more power. Adding a downpipe might get you more power but from everything Iíve read, the 2016-2018 M2ís donít have much room, if any for tuning on factory turbo and injectors. You can add water / meth and see some solid gains though.

I have the DCT and at first, I was somewhat bummed that I didnít get a manual. However, after the first month or so of owning it, thereís no way I would buy this car in a 6 speed. The DCT is a damn blast to use plus you get a 7th gear which is nice for the freeway. Occasionally if Iím on a date I might throw it in auto in the city just so it shifts smooth and the date isnít being jarred around. When going WOT in sport + with stability off, the car shifts damn hard with the dct, itís a pretty unique experience. If I ever trade up for a M2C, ill definitely get it with a DCT trans and sunroof (mine does not have a sunroof). I would get the executive package and apple CarPlay, itís a nice feature to have. The factory navigation is pretty solid but doesnít account for accidents or road closures. The speak to function (call, play this track, destinations, etc) is really good too.

It definitely reminds me of my E46 M3 (has 6 speed) in a lot of ways. The steering can feel slightly synthetic as it changes depending on driving mode but I canít really complain about it.

I do like the linear power as opposed to a little lag then sudden power. It makes the car more predictable. Iíve been able to slide the car pretty aggressively while keeping it in control. That said, itís also really easy to throw the back end out. In sport + with stability off from a stop and going WOT, youíll definitely light up the tires throughout first and 2nd (depending on tires and road conditions).

Being completely honest, at first I wasnít overly excited or impressed with the car for the first few weeks. Once I figured out how to disable all the driving aids, I absolutely love the car. The only other car I could really fathom owning would be a loaded Porsche Cayman but youíre talking a ton more money and a 4 banger, which isnít bad I guess.

For the money, I think itís the best car under $70k that you can buy. Iím not into EVís for my weekend cars so thatís out of the question. The one thing I noticed is that I get compliments every time I take the car out (I have Long Beach blue). I mean compliments from kids to old women who I never would have though would compliment a car.

I have 16k miles on it now, 0 issues. Just smiles per gallon. I do want to test drive the M2C. The S55 has far more tuning capability than the my car does and those seats, I need them.

Feel free to PM me with any questions
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:33 PM   #6
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If you want an honest performing RWD 2-door sports coupe under $100k in this day and age your options are pretty limited. The M2 isn't perfect but if you put aside your gripes about the EPS, weight, and take it out for a hard ride not many cars offer the same type of power and playful balance in a refined car that's much tighter than what you will get from the Camaro, Mustang and Corvette.
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Old 07-01-2019, 06:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
If you want an honest performing RWD 2-door sports coupe under $100k in this day and age your options are pretty limited. The M2 isn't perfect but if you put aside your gripes about the EPS, weight, and take it out for a hard ride not many cars offer the same type of power and playful balance in a refined car that's much tighter than what you will get from the Camaro, Mustang and Corvette.
I think a 240i "gran coupe" (a.k.a sedan) with a 6mt would be a good E46 M3 successor (assuming it has a mechanical diff of course); although I might be biased because it's a bimmer I'd actually want, and I'm not a bimmer guy.






They should make a 240i 6mt wagon
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Old 07-01-2019, 06:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
If you want an honest performing RWD 2-door sports coupe under $100k in this day and age your options are pretty limited. The M2 isn't perfect but if you put aside your gripes about the EPS, weight, and take it out for a hard ride not many cars offer the same type of power and playful balance in a refined car that's much tighter than what you will get from the Camaro, Mustang and Corvette.
^^^ Pretty much this. The M2 is marginally bigger than the e46 M3. It definitely feels heavier than the E46 but thatís to be expected. The Mustang V8 is a great car but itís massive and definitely feels massive to drive. I do enjoy the refinement of the M2.

I was debating between a clean low mileage E46 M3 is the M2. Sent M2 because of warranty and the fact that I plan to drive the hell out of the car and not worry about mileage whereas the E46 M3 is be considered about racking up miles.
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:56 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
If you want an honest performing RWD 2-door sports coupe under $100k in this day and age your options are pretty limited. The M2 isn't perfect but if you put aside your gripes about the EPS, weight, and take it out for a hard ride not many cars offer the same type of power and playful balance in a refined car that's much tighter than what you will get from the Camaro, Mustang and Corvette.
You mean 4 seats right? There's some good 2 seater options - Jaguar, Alfa, Porsche. Can't think of much with 4 seats.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:43 PM   #10
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You mean 4 seats right? There's some good 2 seater options - Jaguar, Alfa, Porsche. Can't think of much with 4 seats.
The Jag F type doesn't really compare at all to the M2. I drove the F type S and R and they fell rather large for the size and there is a disconnect from the driver, the ride is also way more stiff than it needs to be. It handles okay but it definitely isn't on par with the M2. Its a great canyon cruiser car thats mildly uncomfortable but the sound of the S type or R is glorious.

Isn't the Alfa a sedan? Doesn't seem like an equal competitor and I don't think the handling, transmission or "driver engagement" is on par with the M2.

The cayman however is the closest competitor and I think overall the Cayman would take the crown. You're also looking at $20k more to get a Cayman that's equivalent.

It took me a long time to find a car that I was willing to buy. I don't want to spend money modifying a car to be faster, I don't want some **** box rattle, crap interior, **** sound system, Japanese car, I want a warranty or something thats damn reliable. The M2 checks all those boxes. In my opinion, excluding the Cayman which is significantly more expensive, the M2 is the best car for the price while attempting to maintain that old connected "ultimate driving machine" of BMW past with modern technology, enough horsepower and comfort features.

My biggest gripe with the M2... rocks kicking up from the front tires and hitting them wide hips in the back. Make sure to get the paint protection film on the rears.

The only mod i'm considering doing is the dinan resonator delete pipe to make the exhaust louder.

Oh yeah, the back seats are useless unless you're a double leg amputee. It's a 2 seater car with seats in the back to hold your ladies purse and sport coat.
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:37 AM   #11
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I wait anxiously for X328d///M CSL slicktop with optional moon roof.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:39 AM   #12
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Oh yeah, the back seats are useless unless you're a double leg amputee. It's a 2 seater car with seats in the back to hold your ladies purse and sport coat.
So, like the 135i, lol. Just useless rear seats. I once had to have a person back there and they could only sit sideways for the short trip. My daughter *might* be able to fit on the pass side in her booster seat..

Thanks for the great thoughts/tips @godfather2112 & @heavyD.

Iíve driven an M2 twice, but not enough to get to really get a good feel for the e-steering.
Iím really torn on the DCT/6MT. At the end of owning my 135i, I told myself when I get another Bimmer, itís going to be a DCT. I was DONE shifting that thing in traffic/commutes. MT Bimmers take quite a bit more intentionality to shift than, say, an STI. That 2nd gear shift cannot be lazy @ WOT.
But the MT involvement is a thing with a manual and I miss it after 3 years with only autos.. I need to test drive an MT M2C to see if anything is different there than my 2010 135i as far as the 1>2 shift. That was laborious as a daily at times and Iím not one to complain about MTs.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:51 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by godfather2112 View Post
The Jag F type doesn't really compare at all to the M2. I drove the F type S and R and they fell rather large for the size and there is a disconnect from the driver, the ride is also way more stiff than it needs to be. It handles okay but it definitely isn't on par with the M2. Its a great canyon cruiser car thats mildly uncomfortable but the sound of the S type or R is glorious.

Isn't the Alfa a sedan? Doesn't seem like an equal competitor and I don't think the handling, transmission or "driver engagement" is on par with the M2.

The cayman however is the closest competitor and I think overall the Cayman would take the crown. You're also looking at $20k more to get a Cayman that's equivalent.

It took me a long time to find a car that I was willing to buy. I don't want to spend money modifying a car to be faster, I don't want some **** box rattle, crap interior, **** sound system, Japanese car, I want a warranty or something thats damn reliable. The M2 checks all those boxes. In my opinion, excluding the Cayman which is significantly more expensive, the M2 is the best car for the price while attempting to maintain that old connected "ultimate driving machine" of BMW past with modern technology, enough horsepower and comfort features.

My biggest gripe with the M2... rocks kicking up from the front tires and hitting them wide hips in the back. Make sure to get the paint protection film on the rears.

The only mod i'm considering doing is the dinan resonator delete pipe to make the exhaust louder.

Oh yeah, the back seats are useless unless you're a double leg amputee. It's a 2 seater car with seats in the back to hold your ladies purse and sport coat.
The Jags sound amazing, both V6 and V8, sad to hear they don't drive that great, but can't say I'm surprised.

Alfa makes the 4C, turbo 4 and 2 seater. I get less excited about turbo fours cause they don't sound as good.

I prefer the look of the last gen 1/2 series (1M?), that's my only complaint about the M2.
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Old 07-02-2019, 01:05 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
So, like the 135i, lol. Just useless rear seats. I once had to have a person back there and they could only sit sideways for the short trip. My daughter *might* be able to fit on the pass side in her booster seat..

Thanks for the great thoughts/tips @godfather2112 & @heavyD.

Iíve driven an M2 twice, but not enough to get to really get a good feel for the e-steering.
Iím really torn on the DCT/6MT. At the end of owning my 135i, I told myself when I get another Bimmer, itís going to be a DCT. I was DONE shifting that thing in traffic/commutes. MT Bimmers take quite a bit more intentionality to shift than, say, an STI. That 2nd gear shift cannot be lazy @ WOT.
But the MT involvement is a thing with a manual and I miss it after 3 years with only autos.. I need to test drive an MT M2C to see if anything is different there than my 2010 135i as far as the 1>2 shift. That was laborious as a daily at times and Iím not one to complain about MTs.
Find a dealer that will allow you to put it into full M mode (every thing off) and go blast around with the DCT. I caution going heavy on turns in lower gears as you will slide or spin it out but Iíd there are windy on and off ramps, the dct is a damn blast. I occasionally and by occasionally I mean pretty rarely put the car in full auto in the morning to let it warm up which is kind of nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
The Jags sound amazing, both V6 and V8, sad to hear they don't drive that great, but can't say I'm surprised.

Alfa makes the 4C, turbo 4 and 2 seater. I get less excited about turbo fours cause they don't sound as good.

I prefer the look of the last gen 1/2 series (1M?), that's my only complaint about the M2.
I shouldnít have said the Jags drive awful, they just feel pretty big and more of a ďgentlemanísĒ pleasure cruising vehicle with a more harsh ride. The infotainment system does blow and some interior prices are pretty darn cheap. Overall, itís just a different car than the M2 and seems to fit a different purpose. If money allowed it, Iíd have an M2 and Jag f type R (maybe S). Both sound so damn good at WOT and the ZF trans is pretty good. Itís. It as fast as the DCT in the M but itís definitely quick enough.
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Old 07-02-2019, 09:01 PM   #15
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I want something like the shoe to come back (Z3 M3 Coupe) and no not the Zupra.
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:29 PM   #16
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Lol, saw an ///M clown shoe the other day. So ugly, but such awesome cars in their day.
They cannot make cars that small anymore. Couldn’t get over how tiny it was.
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