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Old 10-18-2024, 01:26 PM   #176
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Its kinda like the Hyundai situation. Theyre not really known for having reliable blocks or transmissions, but they have nice warranty. The Elantra N, what makes that car is the transmission. At 33,700 msrp, thing is a steal if you don't need awd and want an affordable zippy car, but for what you get capability wise, it would be nice to see Subaru try and compete with a beefed auto trans that could get the WRX up in speed in this day and age. Didn't the Japanese S4 have a 2.0 with 290ish hp?

However, The WRX does compete currently: The IS350 Awd, Naturally Aspir V6 311hp, but the same 0-60 as the SPT/Cvt WRX at 5.7/5.8.
I think if the car more or less released with 285ish hp at launch in 2022, it would of had a slightly better impression (Would have showed some progress for the Model, The 2.4 is progress don't get me wrong).
I mean the Ascent sits at 277 ft lbs.. and they tell you, you can "Tow" with that TR690 CVT. So that WRX SPT can definitely take some consistent boost pressure abuse at its current power figures. But we'll see, the EPA Edgelords must be giving Subaru more of a hard time than what is publicly seen. Would've loved to see the Stock 0-60 numbers be closer to 5.0 sec. That Damn Elantra rockets away at 4.8 sec. Which is Audi S3 Territory.

But I will argue that the Turbo set up in the Outback is actually quite nice. Good Power, CVT has the same failure-rate as any of the others on the market, which is why its even offered and has proven itself in the Outback year after year. But would I love to see a Dual Clutch? Uh Hell Yeah man, you would definitely see a jump in sales with such an offering.

Toyota has that New GR Yaris 8speed coming for the GR Corolla, It makes me wonder what Subaru would do in response to this.
As you correctly assume the CVT can hold more power and torque. However, the limiting factor is the 6 speed manual in the WRX that can only old 258 lb ft. That number has not changed since the VA came out in 2015. I think that Subaru did not want to sell a car with less HP/TQ in a manual version on their sporty car. So they just derated the CVT version as well.
Toyota does sell the manual Tacoma with less HP/TQ in the manual version, but Tacoma is a truck and the manual version sells in very small numbers anyways.
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Old 10-18-2024, 01:52 PM   #177
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As you correctly assume the CVT can hold more power and torque. However, the limiting factor is the 6 speed manual in the WRX that can only old 258 lb ft. That number has not changed since the VA came out in 2015. I think that Subaru did not want to sell a car with less HP/TQ in a manual version on their sporty car. So they just derated the CVT version as well.
What technical information exists to suggest that the CVT can hold more power and torque than the manual? I hear this spouted by people time and time again, but where is the real data? And what is the actual limitation, because plenty of people have put a lot more power through that transmission than just 258 lbft, myself included, even on a stock clutch. Do they just need to put in a better clutch?

I have seen plenty of people complaining about CVT's slipping and jerking on their stock WRX. When a manual starts to slip, you replace the clutch with a stronger clutch. When a CVT starts to slip, you.... replace the full transmission with another one that will just slip? There's literally nothing you can do. The CVT is 100% the limiting factor in my eyes.
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Old 10-18-2024, 02:55 PM   #178
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What technical information exists to suggest that the CVT can hold more power and torque than the manual? I hear this spouted by people time and time again, but where is the real data? And what is the actual limitation, because plenty of people have put a lot more power through that transmission than just 258 lbft, myself included, even on a stock clutch. Do they just need to put in a better clutch?

I have seen plenty of people complaining about CVT's slipping and jerking on their stock WRX. When a manual starts to slip, you replace the clutch with a stronger clutch. When a CVT starts to slip, you.... replace the full transmission with another one that will just slip? There's literally nothing you can do. The CVT is 100% the limiting factor in my eyes.
I do know for sure 258 lb/ft torque is the limit on the MT for Subaru's specifications. There's something I know related to this that's not forum friendly material.

anecdotally...

Subaru has never, from the factory, offered that transmission with more than 258 lb/ft torque. No matter 2.5l, 2.0l, 2.4l, or the torque heavy diesel.

Subaru has offered the CVT with a lot more even as far back as 2012. You could get a DIT Legacy in Japan w/ 295 lb/ft torque over a decade ago.
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Old 10-24-2024, 01:54 PM   #179
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https://www.reddit.com/r/subaru/comm...ghting_in_san/
Drivers in California seem to keep finding it in the open driving around in camo. Will someone get a much closer in depth look of it, we will have to wait and see
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Old 10-24-2024, 02:56 PM   #180
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You know, it does kind of look like a giant 1998 Forester
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Old 10-24-2024, 03:32 PM   #181
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What technical information exists to suggest that the CVT can hold more power and torque than the manual? I hear this spouted by people time and time again, but where is the real data? And what is the actual limitation, because plenty of people have put a lot more power through that transmission than just 258 lbft, myself included, even on a stock clutch. Do they just need to put in a better clutch?

I have seen plenty of people complaining about CVT's slipping and jerking on their stock WRX. When a manual starts to slip, you replace the clutch with a stronger clutch. When a CVT starts to slip, you.... replace the full transmission with another one that will just slip? There's literally nothing you can do. The CVT is 100% the limiting factor in my eyes.
sure, you, me, and a bunch of other people pushed more power through the trans than the manufacturer/engineers/etc rated it for. it's an old transmission that started use back in 1990 that's been upgraded and made better, but it's still an old split case designed a long time ago.

there should be nothing shocking at all to know that the factory is only willing to rate it if the torque doesn't exceed 260ish.

this is just my opinion, but the biggest weakness on the WRX is not the stock power, or the looks, or the brakes, that transmission sucks. I will never own another Subaru with the WRX manual.
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Old 10-24-2024, 08:35 PM   #182
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Just the direction the Japanese brands are taking. Makes sense when seeing the new Honda Pilot "Trail-whatever" Edition is a pretty nice package for 2025. Bigger vehicle like this new Outback iteration. Has a naturally aspirated V6 in it. Might as well call it the New 4Runner.
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Old 10-24-2024, 09:27 PM   #183
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Just the direction the Japanese brands are taking. Makes sense when seeing the new Honda Pilot "Trail-whatever" Edition is a pretty nice package for 2025. Bigger vehicle like this new Outback iteration. Has a naturally aspirated V6 in it. Might as well call it the New 4Runner.
Please do not compare a FWD-based crossover that shares its platform with a minivan to a 4Runner ever again. Thanks.
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Old 10-25-2024, 01:56 PM   #184
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Please do not compare a FWD-based crossover that shares its platform with a minivan to a 4Runner ever again. Thanks.
Lmao, I mean as far as going "Bulky, More Square, Larger, More Off-road ready" They all seem to be jumpin on the Bandwagon. Even VW with that new Scout iteration.
100% Despite the differences in drivetrain/all-wheel "Assist," I appreciate that V6. Just like I appreciate the V6 in the Frontier when compared to the new Tacoma.
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Old 10-25-2024, 07:04 PM   #185
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Lmao, I mean as far as going "Bulky, More Square, Larger, More Off-road ready" They all seem to be jumpin on the Bandwagon. Even VW with that new Scout iteration.
100% Despite the differences in drivetrain/all-wheel "Assist," I appreciate that V6. Just like I appreciate the V6 in the Frontier when compared to the new Tacoma.
The V6 in the Pilot? That thing sucks and belongs in an Accord. I’m not trying to hit VTEC YO every time I go up a hill. Honda had literally the best daily driver ever (Accord Coupe V6 6-Speed Manual) and of course they get rid of it for a virtue signaling 1.5 L hybrid CVT-only powertrain.

Everyone hates the turbo 4 in the new Tacoma but it makes way more torque than the old V6. N/A V6’s suck in trucks. I had a TRD Pro Tacoma with the manual and it sucked driving around unladen never mind with a load behind it.
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Old 10-26-2024, 10:25 AM   #186
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sure, you, me, and a bunch of other people pushed more power through the trans than the manufacturer/engineers/etc rated it for. it's an old transmission that started use back in 1990 that's been upgraded and made better, but it's still an old split case designed a long time ago.

there should be nothing shocking at all to know that the factory is only willing to rate it if the torque doesn't exceed 260ish.

this is just my opinion, but the biggest weakness on the WRX is not the stock power, or the looks, or the brakes, that transmission sucks. I will never own another Subaru with the WRX manual.
Is the 6MT WRX using viscous coupler?
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Old 10-26-2024, 10:34 AM   #187
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Everyone hates the turbo 4 in the new Tacoma but it makes way more torque than the old V6. N/A V6’s suck in trucks. I had a TRD Pro Tacoma with the manual and it sucked driving around unladen never mind with a load behind it.
The only people hating on the turbo 4 in the Tacoma are those that are convinced it will be a reliability nightmare. Driving the two back to back isn't even a contest. The turbo 4 makes so much more torque and drives so much better than the 1GR or 2GR.

I haven't driven a manual truck that drove well, TBH. My dad had a string of manual trucks (F150, F250, F250, Tacoma) and they could only be described as "good" against their contemporary automatics which were basically trash. By the mid 00s, automatic trucks were nicer to drive than manual.
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Old 10-26-2024, 09:27 PM   #188
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Is the 6MT WRX using viscous coupler?
I have no idea, it's the same split case design they introduced in the early 90s though.

granted, it's now a 6 speed instead of a 5, the synchros are all better, etc.

talk about getting their money's worth out of a design though.
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Old 10-28-2024, 11:54 AM   #189
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The V6 in the Pilot? That thing sucks and belongs in an Accord. I’m not trying to hit VTEC YO every time I go up a hill. Honda had literally the best daily driver ever (Accord Coupe V6 6-Speed Manual) and of course they get rid of it for a virtue signaling 1.5 L hybrid CVT-only powertrain.

Everyone hates the turbo 4 in the new Tacoma but it makes way more torque than the old V6. N/A V6’s suck in trucks. I had a TRD Pro Tacoma with the manual and it sucked driving around unladen never mind with a load behind it.
Just another data point for the V6 talk. My very heavy Grand Cherokee has an old V6 in its 5000+ lb carcass, and while I would never consider it peppy, it is adequate. The 8 speed transmission is a God send for that engine. It even pulled my 3500 lbs of pontoon and family with that old pentastar. Would I like the new Hurricane straight 6 from the wagoneer. Heck yes, but this has proven to be a solid option for me and my family. On the freeway I can get 26 mpg average over 185 miles of driving loaded up. Not great, but not horrible either. Much better than my Ram.

So for what it is worth, the N/A V6 is not sporty, but if properly set up, it can work fine in a truck like application. I have no idea why V6 tacos got such abysmal mileage. It never made sense to me. MY GCL OVerland is heavier and with a weaker engine and still outperforms the V6 Taco in efficiency.
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Old 10-28-2024, 02:42 PM   #190
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Old 10-28-2024, 02:48 PM   #191
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I think that will do well. It looks like a tougher outback, going along with the more square offroad land rover vibe everybody is going for. Wheels look like 20" too. That is large for an outback.
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Old 10-28-2024, 03:15 PM   #192
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Old 10-29-2024, 12:20 PM   #193
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all that's old is new again.

dig up Paul Hogan for a new ad campaign!
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Old 10-30-2024, 05:40 AM   #194
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Looks more wagon and less SUV in that photo. Good.
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Old 10-30-2024, 07:21 AM   #195
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Drove my CX70 Turbo S Premium from MA to HHI in SC for a 2 week vacation. Got home Saturday. 3800 miles. 1k there. 1k back, 1800 from a trip from HHI to Myrtle and back (4 hrs each way), and then another trip to Charleston (2+ hours each way).

I will never own another Subaru until they move away from teh CVT and put a real transmission in them. While I didn't hate the CVT on a commuter Impreza, on road trips it was loud because small engine, had to run at higher RPMs. But the feel from moving back to a real transmission, yum. (If you grow up with just CVT, you may just find going to a real auto weird, so there's that - but I didn't)

My CX70 turbo, under 2k rpms cruising at or under 75mph. Sure, I have more then 2x hp/tq too, and that most certainly helps, but damn it was nice to have a quiet cabin, good music, excellent weather. No NVH issues and the straight 6 turbo is no joke. Pulls like a freight train. And the tranny.... shifts like buttah.
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Old 10-30-2024, 10:51 AM   #196
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Drove my CX70 Turbo S Premium from MA to HHI in SC for a 2 week vacation. Got home Saturday. 3800 miles. 1k there. 1k back, 1800 from a trip from HHI to Myrtle and back (4 hrs each way), and then another trip to Charleston (2+ hours each way).

I will never own another Subaru until they move away from teh CVT and put a real transmission in them. While I didn't hate the CVT on a commuter Impreza, on road trips it was loud because small engine, had to run at higher RPMs. But the feel from moving back to a real transmission, yum. (If you grow up with just CVT, you may just find going to a real auto weird, so there's that - but I didn't)

My CX70 turbo, under 2k rpms cruising at or under 75mph. Sure, I have more then 2x hp/tq too, and that most certainly helps, but damn it was nice to have a quiet cabin, good music, excellent weather. No NVH issues and the straight 6 turbo is no joke. Pulls like a freight train. And the tranny.... shifts like buttah.
Mind if I ask why not get the CX90? It's cheaper and has more seat (if needed) and the same cargo space. It's an odd situation between the 70 and 90.
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Old 10-30-2024, 04:47 PM   #197
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Mind if I ask why not get the CX90? It's cheaper and has more seat (if needed) and the same cargo space. It's an odd situation between the 70 and 90.
This might not be their answer, but I'm pretty sure the 70 has better financing incentives right now. So if you don't need the third row, I bet the 70 is a slightly better deal.
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Old 10-30-2024, 09:55 PM   #198
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This might not be their answer, but I'm pretty sure the 70 has better financing incentives right now. So if you don't need the third row, I bet the 70 is a slightly better deal.
Yep. But don't need the third row. Have dogs. And also love the under floor storage. And it looks better. (Front end design).

I was just as stumped as many when they split the designations and not just a CX90 as both a 2 row & 3 row. That said, the Turbo S Premium CX70 starts $500 cheaper than the same CX90. I'm a dink, no kids will be in the car and all my adult friends, don't need to fit in 6/7/8 people. 4/5 is fine. In the past 30 years, I have never needed more than 4 seats in a car because at most it's Me/Wife, another person/couple.

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Old 10-30-2024, 11:33 PM   #199
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Looks like the damn Griswold Family Truckster. Like, seriously it does.
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Old 10-31-2024, 07:34 AM   #200
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Looks like the damn Griswold Family Truckster. Like, seriously it does.
As someone that not only was alive to have ridden in the old Ford LTD/Country Squire Wagons as a family car back and forth to school in the 'way' back, but also saw the movie when it was in theaters, no. No it does not.
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