Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday February 17, 2018
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-16-2017, 08:38 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NEPA
Vehicle:
Hint
forward in Italian

Default 2018 Volkswagen Golf GTI

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...h-model-review

The GTI is now entering its 12th consecutive year as a winner of our 10Best Cars award (along with the rest of its Golf family), and it’s as good as ever. The GTI is a practical car with real performance credibility at a price that would make plenty of dynamically inferior cars blush. But despite already having an ace in the hole, Volkswagen keeps upping the ante. This year, that meant a minor horsepower bump across the GTI’s lineup, a limited-slip differential and stronger brakes for the GTI’s two upper trim levels, standard adaptive dampers for the topmost Autobahn trim, and wider availability of active safety technology. We’ve been smitten with the GTI for years, and with Volkswagen’s commitment to the continued refinement of this little hot hatch, we expect the bloom to stay on this rose for the foreseeable future.

Hit link for the rest of article,
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 12-16-2017, 07:25 PM   #2
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2018 Legacy /allroad
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

I would love an autobahn model... yummy
72 month warranty.. man, the deal gets sweeter every time
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 07:28 AM   #3
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NEPA
Vehicle:
Hint
forward in Italian

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I would love an autobahn model... yummy
72 month warranty.. man, the deal gets sweeter every time
Hay Scrap. Happy holidays and all that crap

Check out Britain’s best drivers car 2017. It did a very well considering what McLaren and 911 gt3 cost. Same with the Honda.


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ar-2017-winner

AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 12:51 PM   #4
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2018 Legacy /allroad
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

that is very interesting...THe fact that it outscored a BMW and Mercedes is interesting.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 01:44 PM   #5
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:
2017 GTI/1999 OBS
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
that is very interesting...THe fact that it outscored a BMW and Mercedes is interesting.
And all it needs to keep up with a Type-R are some sticky tires and a tune.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 03:46 PM   #6
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
¡ ES UNA SALSA...
MUY SALSA !®

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
And all it needs to keep up with a Type-R are some sticky tires and a tune.
In a straight line, maybe.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 04:56 PM   #7
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:
2017 GTI/1999 OBS
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
In a straight line, maybe.
Mostly in the twisties.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 11:58 PM   #8
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
¡ ES UNA SALSA...
MUY SALSA !®

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Mostly in the twisties.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 11:21 AM   #9
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2018 Legacy /allroad
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Forget tires and tunes, etc. You can get those for the turbo honda I am sure. Fact is out of the box the GTI is just staggeringly good. Plus with all the dealers giving 6000 dollars off MSRP on all GTI's I mean it is the veritable definition of a no brain'r.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 12:52 PM   #10
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
¡ ES UNA SALSA...
MUY SALSA !®

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Forget tires and tunes, etc. You can get those for the turbo honda I am sure. Fact is out of the box the GTI is just staggeringly good. Plus with all the dealers giving 6000 dollars off MSRP on all GTI's I mean it is the veritable definition of a no brain'r.
Fact is out the box the Type R is staggeringly good. We need to distinguish FWD based performance value and raw performance here. VW will not offer us a competitor to the Type R, so if you wanna keep a warranty and not fuss with your purchase to have extra fun, and a manual trans is a must, the Type R in all its ugly is the way to go. The GTI is a rabbit hole for modding. Tires and more power make for a frustrating experience. Been there done that. Type R is a complete package where the rear does what you want when you want in corners. It takes a lot of tweaking to make a GTI rotate like a Type R. And finding Type R level braking for the GTI is also costly and difficult. How bout those Type R seats? So so good.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 12:58 PM   #11
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2018 Legacy /allroad
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Well the new GTI comes with the Golf R brakes on the medium and top trims... so that is good. I personally would not want to make my GTI 'like' any other car. The point is the GTI shoots straight down the middle. It is a B+ or A- at every single category. Other cars may edge it out in acceleration, or braking, or figure 8 g's, or room, but none can match its overall everymans appeal in all categories. The Type R was born for track life, the GTI was made for real life.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 01:47 PM   #12
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
¡ ES UNA SALSA...
MUY SALSA !®

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Well the new GTI comes with the Golf R brakes on the medium and top trims... so that is good. I personally would not want to make my GTI 'like' any other car. The point is the GTI shoots straight down the middle. It is a B+ or A- at every single category. Other cars may edge it out in acceleration, or braking, or figure 8 g's, or room, but none can match its overall everymans appeal in all categories. The Type R was born for track life, the GTI was made for real life.
Good brakes don't make GREAT brakes. Upgrading good brakes is difficult and costly on the GTI.

The point of the Type R is taking something like a GTI to the next level with OE development hi po parts and warranty. It's ok to say both are good performance values in their own right without having to be compared straight across. Some people like spicy and some like extra extra spicy. Saying the GTI is just as good as a Type R if you add x and y is missing a whole lot of what the Type R is capable of, IMO. I dunno what it would take to make my GTI go 170 mph, but apparently Honda offers something that will. And that stability development of the chassis and body is what makes the Type R so good at human speeds. Good brakes vs. great brakes etc.

Of course I agree about categorical competence and value of the GTI. A GTI is good enough in base form for me for what I use it for. But going back to the other point, I'm not going to pretend I can transform my GTI into a good track or auto-x car because I added some parts. Like I said, been there done that. It did not happen and it does not happen without a lot of time and work and money.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 02:28 PM   #13
IWantASuby
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 190420
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: VT
Vehicle:
'13 BRZ Limited
'04 Impreza Outback Sport

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I would love an autobahn model... yummy
72 month warranty.. man, the deal gets sweeter every time
Our local VW dealer was offering a '17 GTI S for $21k....it was not on the lot long. I'm a Subaru guy and need AWD but like you said, dealers like that and that warranty...idk, it's tempting indeed.
IWantASuby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 03:05 PM   #14
Skylab
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Encinitas
Default 2018 Volkswagen Golf GTI



Yeah, and it’s not just one at this price...

https://www.vwking.com/searchnew.asp...Model=Golf+GTI


No dealers on the West Coast come anywhere close to these discounts.


You want the Sport, though. It’s got the VAQ differential.

Last edited by Skylab; 12-18-2017 at 03:12 PM.
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 03:06 PM   #15
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2018 Legacy /allroad
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Good brakes don't make GREAT brakes. Upgrading good brakes is difficult and costly on the GTI.

The point of the Type R is taking something like a GTI to the next level with OE development hi po parts and warranty. It's ok to say both are good performance values in their own right without having to be compared straight across. Some people like spicy and some like extra extra spicy. Saying the GTI is just as good as a Type R if you add x and y is missing a whole lot of what the Type R is capable of, IMO. I dunno what it would take to make my GTI go 170 mph, but apparently Honda offers something that will. And that stability development of the chassis and body is what makes the Type R so good at human speeds. Good brakes vs. great brakes etc.

Of course I agree about categorical competence and value of the GTI. A GTI is good enough in base form for me for what I use it for. But going back to the other point, I'm not going to pretend I can transform my GTI into a good track or auto-x car because I added some parts. Like I said, been there done that. It did not happen and it does not happen without a lot of time and work and money.
Very well stated
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 03:06 PM   #16
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
'09 wrx
'14 Outback

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantASuby View Post
Our local VW dealer was offering a '17 GTI S for $21k....it was not on the lot long. I'm a Subaru guy and need AWD but like you said, dealers like that and that warranty...idk, it's tempting indeed.
It really is... actually has me re-considering my awd requirement. I do still "require" an AWD car so I can get to the mountains without chaining up, but the family does have an Outback that I can outfit with snow tires.

It's a mixed bag though. On one hand, the GTI significantly cheaper than the R, and has a lot of the performance attributes I'm looking for as my DD. On the other, if I get a GTI, I have to make the Outback my sled, so therefore the GTI has to be automatic so that the wife can drive it when I'm in the mountains.

I'll likely end up in an R, but boy the GTI does throw a wrench in things...
dwf137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 03:51 PM   #17
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2018 Legacy /allroad
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

It really does....And even if you have to choose the automatic, it is just one of the best autos on the planet..... so that is even not a big deal.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 04:05 PM   #18
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
'09 wrx
'14 Outback

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
It really does....And even if you have to choose the automatic, it is just one of the best autos on the planet..... so that is even not a big deal.
I'll have to test-drive one... I have yet to drive their DCT. It'd certainly make my daily slog easier, but I hate the disengagement.
dwf137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 04:21 PM   #19
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:
2017 GTI/1999 OBS
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Good brakes don't make GREAT brakes. Upgrading good brakes is difficult and costly on the GTI.
With the PP you just need pads and fluid. This isnt a super heavy car with a million HP, the stock calipers and rotor size are up to the job. Bonus: the brake booster can be adjusted via software.

Quote:
The point of the Type R is taking something like a GTI to the next level with OE development hi po parts and warranty. It's ok to say both are good performance values in their own right without having to be compared straight across. Some people like spicy and some like extra extra spicy. Saying the GTI is just as good as a Type R if you add x and y is missing a whole lot of what the Type R is capable of, IMO. I dunno what it would take to make my GTI go 170 mph, but apparently Honda offers something that will. And that stability development of the chassis and body is what makes the Type R so good at human speeds. Good brakes vs. great brakes etc.
Are you forgetting the Clubsport? That was basically the direct competitor to the Type-R, even owned the 'ring record prior to the Type-R.

Quote:
But going back to the other point, I'm not going to pretend I can transform my GTI into a good track or auto-x car because I added some parts. Like I said, been there done that. It did not happen and it does not happen without a lot of time and work and money.
A mk7 GTI with the performance pack and sticky tires is a VERY good autox car. Its just as good as the Focus ST competivly and you can see that at all levels of competition including nationals.

The Type-R is going to wind up in much more difficult stock classes and probably wont put up Autox times much faster than a GTI or Focus ST.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 05:00 PM   #20
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Vehicle:
¡ ES UNA SALSA...
MUY SALSA !®

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
With the PP you just need pads and fluid. This isnt a super heavy car with a million HP, the stock calipers and rotor size are up to the job. Bonus: the brake booster can be adjusted via software.


Are you forgetting the Clubsport? That was basically the direct competitor to the Type-R, even owned the 'ring record prior to the Type-R.


A mk7 GTI with the performance pack and sticky tires is a VERY good autox car. Its just as good as the Focus ST competivly and you can see that at all levels of competition including nationals.

The Type-R is going to wind up in much more difficult stock classes and probably wont put up Autox times much faster than a GTI or Focus ST.
And the Clubsport S isn't merely a GTI with tires and a tune. Nor was it ever offered here so I'm not sure I should remember it. The brakes on the Type R are in another league altogether. Wanna do more aggressive pad and fluid with a GTI, you would do the same in a Type R and yield similar gains in performance. It's not the power output nor weight that makes the Type R better than the Clubsport S around the Ring or other high speed tracks.

I auto-x'ed my MKV GTI (in SF region) and was modded with those things plus more. Tried stagger tire setup, bars, suspension setups you name it. My MKVII is not fundamentally different. Which is why I haven't bothered touching it and have been enjoying it stock for what it is. Getting a FWD car to PREDICTABLY rotate on and off power takes a lot of effort. Boost adds another layer. Not saying it won't be competitive in class against other boosted cars like the FoST or Civic Si or what not, but it's not a Civic Type R. The Civic Si is not a Civic Type R. Now if you wanna take your auto-x tailored GTI to a track environment, which I've done as well, throw all that out the window and start over.

For your average driving enthusiast who wants to experience the best setup possible for a functional and fun FWD hatchback right out the box and a warranty, it's not the GTI with a tune and tires. It's a Type R. Doesn't detract from the GTI in any way at all. GTI is way less $$$ and probably 7/10ths as capable. Which is fine for most. And while tires and a tune will get you closer to Clubsport S or Type R levels, close isn't the same.

Not trying to be argumentative here, just a little insightful.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 09:08 PM   #21
godfather2112
Papi Chulo
Moderator
 
Member#: 53794
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:
....

Default

This is all opinion here but I think for the average enthusiast, the GTI is a better option. Maybe our definition of “average enthusiast” varies but I think most “average enthusiast” lack the skill to capitalize on the performance that the Honda Type R offers. I would actually be surprised if the average enthusiast would be able to have better speed and time through twister roads. I haven’t driven a Type R so I can’t comment but I felt damn confident in my GTI (mkvi) on twistie roads even when slightly over driving the car. The GTI is just easy to drive and predictable assuming you’re not a complete ass hat.

Now, give the two cars to someone who knows how to drive and the Honda would destroy the GTI.

Regarding snow duty and the GTI. I was damn surprised how well my gti got around in the snow with snow tires. I can’t remember the brand of tire but it wasn’t top of the line and had 0 difficulties driving around Salt Lake City in the winter time. Granted, I did have to be lighter on the throttle but I never felt challenged or unsafe getting around.
godfather2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 11:40 PM   #22
Kostamojen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:
2017 GTI/1999 OBS
White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
The brakes on the Type R are in another league altogether.
How so? The brembo calipers? Because the rotor sizes are almost the same as is the brake pad surface area.
Quote:
It's not the power output nor weight that makes the Type R better than the Clubsport S around the Ring or other high speed tracks.
Ok then what is it that makes it so much better? The only major difference I can find from an engineering perspective is the front knuckles.
Kostamojen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 10:32 AM   #23
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2018 Legacy /allroad
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

What is the weight delta vs tire size between the two cars?
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 11:36 AM   #24
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2016 Golf R

Default

The problem with the Civic Type R is first of all you Americans are getting hosed on the pricing as it is no longer a good deal above MSRP. Secondly it comes with 20" wheels which simply aren't practical for a daily driver as plenty of CTR owners are having tire and wheel issues with the 20's and most are having to invest in smaller wheels/tires right off the bat. Third it's not nearly as well built a car as the GTI. The GTI for the everyday drivers is simply a better car out of the box.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 02:42 PM   #25
Sid03SVT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183032
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT
Vehicle:
OLD Family Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
The problem with the Civic Type R is first of all you Americans are getting hosed on the pricing as it is no longer a good deal above MSRP. Secondly it comes with 20" wheels which simply aren't practical for a daily driver as plenty of CTR owners are having tire and wheel issues with the 20's and most are having to invest in smaller wheels/tires right off the bat. Third it's not nearly as well built a car as the GTI. The GTI for the everyday drivers is simply a better car out of the box.
It's surprising to me when a VW is getting statements about having better build quality than a Honda; I'm not a honda fan-boi by a long stretch, I despise everything FF, and I've never owned either, but Honda quality/reliability has always been shown and has been a draw.

For the record, not a Subaru Fanboy either, it just fit most of my needs and some of my wants at the time and now I can't replace it because nothing exists to replace it; I have no horse in this race, except that I want someone to make the car I want that suits my needs, and I'll deal with the fallout.

At this point, I'd even consider an FCA product, which should show you how desperate/bored of repairing my Subaru I am.
Sid03SVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.