'99 Outback - Blown Head Gasket, now what?

[Tessai]

So, long story extremely condensed, I bought a "good condition" Outback that ended up having a blown head gasket among other issues.

I've already spent the purchase price of the car on repairs and I'm just tired of fixing things. I've owned the car for over a week and it has yet to even see my driveway... it had to be towed to the shop from the initial drive home.

So, I've heard multiple people refer to subarus as "lego cars" because of the relative ease in which parts from other models/years swap in.

I've done some basic searching of this board (how I determined my problem was the head gasket) and I'm left wondering what to do from here.

Should I just rebuild the existing engine? Or, would it be better long-term to swap in something else? Perhaps a newer 2.5L perhaps without the HG issues?

The Outback is an automatic with 130k on it, so I'm not looking for turbocharged fury. Is there an engine that swaps with a minimal amount of issues?

Or, am I better off just repairing the engine I've got?

I realize these are pretty noob questions but I'm a bit pressed for time and I'm a total noob to subarus... I wouldn't know what engines to even start looking at.

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[Frogsthatmoo]

Don't worry, these aren't noob questions, at least you've done some research!


You have to think of it financially. I personally don't know how much replacing the head gaskets would run, but you can easily call around to local shops and see how much they want for the job. This kind of job could be done in a day or two. The thing is, once you replace the head gaskets, you should be good to go for another 150,000 miles or more (that's from my own personal experience). I think it had something to do with the stock head gaskets or something, no idea, but most people on here say once you replace them, they should be fine.

If you want to go the route of sourcing a new engine, you're looking at weeks (or days if you're lucky) of sitting around on the computer trying to find the engine and then the time spent getting the engine, and then installing the engine. There are part-outs on this forum and sl-i.net (Legacy forum) every now and then, but not too often.


If I were you, just go with replacing the head gaskets. It'll be relatively quick seeing as you're pressed for time. I also would assume you don't want to deal with anymore hassles with this car, and replacing the motor would be a big hassle and possibly costly.


By the way, what year car?

[Tessai]

Thanks, thats pretty much what I was looking for.

The head gaskets will have to be done in my own garage. A friend is a manager of a local shop where all the work to date has been done. I'm one of those people that did the radiator cap, the thermostat, the water pump, basically the entire cooling system minus the heater core and the head gaskets are new and it still overheats within a mile of gentile driving.

However, luckily for me (in a way) the work was necessary anyway. I bought the car from a car lot, not private party, but the previous owner really abused this thing.

I'm glad to hear that there has been success with the new headgaskets. In the searching I did, many of the older posts were talking about head gaskets re-failing in short order. These must have been the older gaskets.

I have time to work on the car, I just need to decide what do with it.. swap or replace HG. The shop is tired of the car being there as much as I am .

Its a 1999 Outback. I guess I was holding out some hope that someone would be like "Oh yeah! The '04 Forester 2.5L bolts right in and you just plug in the ECU from the donor car and it'll run just fine!" or something. No such luck.

Alrighty then. Next question: Are there aftermarket head gaskets that are worth checking out or should I just pay the dealership a visit and stick with the factory parts?

[Frogsthatmoo]

Have you tried getting all the air out of the cooling system? I used to have an overheating problem which was caused by the water pump leaking and air would get into the system. About once a month (before I got it properly fixed) I would park the car on an uphill, turn it on with radiator cap and bleeder valve open, and just try to fill it up until it came out of both caps.

It seems like you're smart enough to try this before resorting to replacing the head gasket, but I figured I'd ask.

[Tessai]

I personally haven't tried that... all of the work so far has been done by a friend's shop while I've been at work. I'd imagine they've tried that already but it is worth a try... I guess at this point it wouldn't hurt.

[Patrick Olsen]

I blew the original design gaskets twice in about 12k miles on my '97 Legacy 2.5GT. The 2nd time they were replaced with the new HG design, which is the same design Subaru has used ever since (part number ends in AA610, as I recall). I then went over 4 years and ~90k miles without blowing them again. For most of that time I was making 25% more power than stock (dyno-proven), and the car was treated to numerous open track days, auto-x runs, drag strip passes, and general hard driving. So yes, the new gaskets are definitely better. They're not invincible, though, as I did eventually blow them.

As far as ease of swapping with a newer engine, the '97-99 Legacy/Outback (and '98 Impreza 2.5RS and Forester) used the EJ25D DOHC (Phase 1) engine. It has a different ECU than the newer EJ251/252/etc SOHC (Phase 2) engines, so there are some differences in the wiring harnesses and sensors. There's basically no easy way to "plug 'n' play" a newer engine into the car. It's not the mechanical side that's the problem, it's the electrical side.

However, you can put your heads and intake manifold onto a newer Phase 2 shortblock. It's got a better thrust bearing arrangement, and the Phase 2 blocks are supposedly more resistant to HG issues. (I say supposedly because the early Phase 2 engines were prone to HG failures, sooooo....) There's also a possibility that you already have a Phase 2 shortblock - some of the '98 RSs and Foresters and '99 Legacys/Outbacks came from the factory with the Phase 1 heads on the Phase 2 blocks, apparently as Subaru shifted the production over. (I've read here that all of the '99 Legacys/Outbacks had the Phase 2 block, but I don't know if that's true or not.) There are ways to visually distinguish the blocks, but off the top of my head I can't remember what they are. I remember it was discussed repeatedly "back in the day", but it's hard to find a definitive thread about it. Here's a pretty good one that I just bumped that might tell the story. I'm pretty sure you can safely say that if your trans is bolted to the engine with more than 4 bolts/studs then you have the Phase 2 block.

Pat Olsen

[bry593]

it's disappointing that subaru put out a bullet proof 2.2l and then five years later, a simple increase in displacement rattled consumer confidence due to repeated failed head gaskets. as mentioned, they did finally fix the issue, but in the meantime there were some slightly sub-par fixes being implemented (i.e. coolant additives). however, if you replace the gaskets with the new design, the car should be nearly as durable as the tried and true 2.2.

[Tessai]

Originally Posted by bry593

if you replace the gaskets with the new design, the car should be nearly as durable as the tried and true 2.2.

Well, that inspires confidence. I'm still on the fence as to if I keep the car. Depending on how my legal situation plays out, either the guy that sold it will be getting the car back as-is, or I'll be keeping it and fixing it up.

Thanks for the input, all.

[Jonathan]

While if the basic block is still in good condition replacing the head gaskets with the new style can indeed make the Phase I EJ25 motor reasonably reliable, there are unfortunately some stories where if the engine is driven too long with low coolant, the basic block can crack and no head gasket repair can cure these engines. When you do not know what the previous owner did, or when they realized they had a problem, you are taking something of a gamble.

[Tessai]

I believe the shop has already compression checked it while checking for a blown head gasket in the first place. If not, they pressure checked the cooling system.

Would either of those tests have found a cracked block?

If not, aside from obvious external cracks, is there anything else I can check for?

I'm towing the car home tomorrow as I'll be doing the rest of the work myself. I've got a borrowed car now so I can take my time, and am no longer in a rush. I've got a few friends that are much more mechanically minded than I offering to help, which is a huge bonus.

As far as gambling, I'm pretty much screwed at this point. I've got too much money into repairing this car to justify ditching it for something else now. If we tear it down and the block is trashed then something else will go in its place. Likely a junkyard replacement that I'll replace the headgaskets on before it gets put back in the car.

[Patrick Olsen]

I wouldn't be too worried about the block being cracked, I think that's a pretty small possibility. And assuming the dealership did the test(s) properly, a cracked block would've been found.

[Tessai]

A shop is doing all the tests. I mean, the car runs fine it just overheats... so I can drive it anywhere within a 2 mile radius and I'm golden .

I don't trust the dealership I bought it from to know the difference between the oil cap and the fuel cap.

I bought the head gasket from Subaru this weekend ($51 each... ouch!) and am now sourcing the rest of the parts (valve cover gasket et all). The water pump, timing belt, and thermostat all have less than 5 miles/two weeks on them so I'll be reusing those parts, luckily. My biggest problem right now is locating an engine hoist. I've got baby-free time this weekend to work on the car as my wife goes out of town to visit in-laws and I'd like to get this done. Not sure if it will be financially feasible at this point with the parts and tools I still need to get.

Now searching for write-ups and how-to's on this work. I know it has been done before and beaten to death on this board... just gotta do the searches and print them out.

[bry593]

they may cost $15, but they will work correctly.... i've bought cars that had "blown head gaskets" and the only problem was an american made thermostat....

[Tessai]

The thermostat caused coolant to spew from the overflow tank after a mile of driving?

[JamesWilson2]

Originally Posted by Tessai

The thermostat caused coolant to spew from the overflow tank after a mile of driving?

If it never opens, yes. Same thing with air in the system.

[Tessai]

Pretty sure it was tested but I'll boil some water tonight just in case.

[Patrick Olsen]

Originally Posted by bry593

they may cost $15, but they will work correctly.... i've bought cars that had "blown head gaskets" and the only problem was an american made thermostat....

Yup, those damn Americans have never figured out the technology to make decent thermostats!