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Old 02-13-2018, 03:15 PM   #151
no694terry
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Sorry but i dont see how a returnless system could deliver cooler fuel. Looking at an 08 Impreza 2.5i, the fuel dead ends in steel lines on top of the block, then the 2.5i takes in very little fuel, meanwhile the pump is pumping at 4bar with 90% of it recirculating round and round inside the tank waiting to go to the engine
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:12 PM   #152
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Without testing, it's all conjecture. I noted 'theoretically' for this reason. Unfortunately, the downsides of a dead-ended system are too much for me to bother rigging anything up with temperature measurement
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:28 PM   #153
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ya who cares. moving on. Ive just been semi interested in all this since im coming up on running all new fuel lines in the tube chassis. Planning on -6an feed and 5/16" return. Just need to pick a filter
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:02 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy_H6TT View Post
Haha, yeah I know NASCAR motors aren't low tech; flat plane cranks, EFI, 9000rpm+ redline! And seeing where you're located you have to appreciate my love of the sport #doitfordale
They're still crossplane and NASCAR has been doing their job of dialing them back in the from the 10k RPM peaks they had. They've been reeling the budget aspect of it back in a lot. We had flatplane only on the GT350R-C project. Then the FIA and IMSA side of my job was cool but also lame because of BOP. Great, we can make all of this power and save all this fuel but it'll only be so that we're penalized...great!!

With that being said, I've been focusing on intake manifold a bit too much and haven't touched my surge tank. I need to get back onto things. My bugeye DD is waiting to guinea pig.
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Old 02-23-2018, 03:25 AM   #155
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True? I thought NASCAR did use a flat crank... my bad. That GT350 is cool though; not a huge Mustang fan but being able to pick one up for around $50k its certainly a future classic worth holding on to!
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:21 PM   #156
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what yall think about AN fitting restriction. These -6an fittings have 7/32" ID's, my stock 5/16" hose barbs have bigger holes
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:39 PM   #157
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what yall think about AN fitting restriction. These -6an fittings have 7/32" ID's, my stock 5/16" hose barbs have bigger holes
6AN standard fitting (not hose) I.D. is 0.300"
6AN hoses are even larger at 0.340"

7/32" is 0.21875" (!!)

I don't know where you bought your fittings, but I'd be permanently scrapping whatever brand you saw a 7/32" orifice on something labeled 6AN...
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:47 PM   #158
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6AN standard fitting (not hose) I.D. is 0.300"
6AN hoses are even larger at 0.340"

7/32" is 0.21875" (!!)

I don't know where you bought your fittings, but I'd be permanently scrapping whatever brand you saw a 7/32" orifice on something labeled 6AN...
They're ICT Billet fittings i got from Summit Racing. I measured with a ruler at my desk, but its about 1/32" under a 1/4", the tube that goes inside the hose when assembling.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:48 AM   #159
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Just measured a few 6an fittings and they are about .27" ID, but their nipple has to go inside the line and still have a wall, which means it has to be smaller. It probably also varies depending on whether it's for ptfe or "normal" rubber fuel line. The ones I measured have the white swirly symbol on the sides, probably made by ICT (china?) and stamped by someone else. I have some russell fittings at work, for the rails. Will measure them when I get the chance.


I'm hoping to run ptfe wherever possible, but it's not very flexible so routing requires more precise measurement.

It's funny how critical we are being with the ID of the fuel line. If you look at the ID of the fuel pump you're running, you may be surprised how small it is. The ones with built in check valves in the nozzle though...
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:13 AM   #160
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Just measured a few 6an fittings and they are about .27" ID, but their nipple has to go inside the line and still have a wall, which means it has to be smaller.
As I said above:

6AN standard fitting (not hose) I.D. is 0.300"
6AN hoses are even larger at 0.340"

Low-quality manufacturers definitely don't always hit these.
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:39 AM   #161
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I will measure the Russell size change fittings at work tomorrow, but as I said...the type of fitting will determine the ID. Ptfe and push lock hoses are designed to seal differently and so are their respective fittings there is only so much room to have a structurally sound nipple and still keep the ID sufficient. Maybe someone will buy some generic fittings for ptfe, push lock and normal hose and post a visual comparison. All I have are some generic fasster ptfe and push lock fittings and a few Russell size conversion fittings. It's obviously easier to keep a larger ID on a fitting when it's the male end that screws into a female fitting, versus a nipple that has to be wedged inside a hose with a specific ID range. Typical rubber hose has a good bit of stretch compared to ptfe.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:04 PM   #162
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My point was that the AN fitting diameters are defined by the standard. Regardless of what you measure, the standard is the correct measurement and a good way to filter out low quality fittings.

When you are talking about the wall thickness, barb size, etc. you should note the AN standard still applies. If anything causes the ID to dip BELOW the minimum measurements, it is a choke point and would not meet the standard. Goodridge, Eaton (Aeroquip), and some smaller specialty brands ($$$) are the only ones I've seen consistently hit the AN sizing requirements. Earl's usually does... but the thing to note about Earl's - they private label a LOT of their parts, and rarely from the same manufacturer. Their QD fittings, for example, are manufactured by Staubli.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:40 AM   #163
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I was pretty surprised how small the ID was on my 6an lines. Made me feel like I wasted money not just using stock 5/16 hose stuff
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:04 PM   #164
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UPDATE

Ok so I know it's been forever, and I have been following the thread without much posting because we weren't really making much progress, so here's where we're at now:

car 1) 2007 sti - the dw hardwire relay burned out for no apparent reason. car barely gets driven, maybe once in 2-3 weeks if that. contacted dw, they sent replacement. he's having me drop in ID1700's so that we can at least try to run the car on e85. He's also having me drop in Cobb Flex fuel and pressure kit soon. I know the hardwired dw300 on this car will still struggle past 450 so we're hoping for 450 until we figure out a double pumper setup.

car 2) 2015 sti - dropped in ID1300x and it seems to be doing decent at 430whp on the hardwired aem320 on e85. 80's IDC

car 3) 2014 sti - dropping in ID1700x right now, along with IAG rails, IAG -6an underhood fuel lines, perrin FPR, and going to hardwire the walbro450 and hope for 500-550whp on e85? until he can go radium double pumper setup and run lines from tank to underhood.

after the injector installs and everything underhood is taken care of on both cars, we'll start planning the in-tank upgrades as well as running lines. are my expectations for car 3 realistic?

here's a few pics
IMG_4735 by vladirsx, on FlickrIMG_4751 by vladirsx, on FlickrIMG_5192 by vladirsx, on FlickrIMG_5199 by vladirsx, on Flickr
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:15 PM   #165
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43 base + 28 psi boost + 10 psi pump back pressure you looking at ~ 80 psi fuel pressure at the pump.

80 psi on 450 will do 328 lph

ID1700 will need 320 lph to run up to 7500 rpm.

I would probably run 25 psi max boost on 450 with E80 and watch differential fuel pressure.
And get rid of Cobb AP its for noobs.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:05 PM   #166
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43 base + 28 psi boost + 10 psi pump back pressure you looking at ~ 80 psi fuel pressure at the pump.

80 psi on 450 will do 328 lph

ID1700 will need 320 lph to run up to 7500 rpm.

I would probably run 25 psi max boost on 450 with E80 and watch differential fuel pressure.
And get rid of Cobb AP its for noobs.
probably only need 1200-1300 cc to hit 550 though.

I think I posted a 450 log in here somewhere running 1000's at 4bar with 2 bar of boost with stock lines. I'm at 100% duty cycle at 420whp on e80. But my tunes conservative and my motors not an effecient power maker
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:35 AM   #167
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probably only need 1200-1300 cc to hit 550 though.

I think I posted a 450 log in here somewhere running 1000's at 4bar with 2 bar of boost with stock lines. I'm at 100% duty cycle at 420whp on e80. But my tunes conservative and my motors not an effecient power maker
you will be out of pump by 500 whp, in most cases differential fuel pressure will be dropping hard, and running a pump that is maxed out will lead to bad things as conditions change.
im not sure about fitment but DW400 looks promising

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Old 07-16-2018, 07:02 AM   #168
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you will be out of pump by 500 whp, in most cases differential fuel pressure will be dropping hard, and running a pump that is maxed out will lead to bad things as conditions change.
im not sure about fitment but DW400 looks promising

at some point, probably when i upgrade injectors. I'll be putting in a surge tank. 450 to feed tank, a bosch 044 to feed rails.
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Old 07-16-2018, 07:48 AM   #169
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Default Simplest path to FUELING 500-550whp?? on E85

DW350 > Bosch 044 and the 350 is engineered to be a directed fitment replacement for the 044 meaning the 350 will fit hangers & tanks meant for the 044
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:06 AM   #170
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DW350 > Bosch 044 and the 350 is engineered to be a directed fitment replacement for the 044 meaning the 350 will fit hangers & tanks meant for the 044
theres just a part of me that dont like DW pumps. anytime i hear about wiring burning up or something is a DW related. Even on my brothers car, he had a 65c and burned up his bulk head connector. Maybe just coincidence but just how i feel
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:36 PM   #171
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Taking an eye loupe to inspect a DW injector pintle was all it took me to return my DW parts and move along. The data they provide for their product is good, but the bar has been raised and I don't feel they've stepped up to the current level of quality out there.

Didn't we talk about all this a few months and pages back in this thread? As much as I like the 044 pumps, the only one I've really seen that seems like a solid across-the-board upgrade on paper is the AEM 400 pump.

Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 07-16-2018 at 01:11 PM.
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