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04-18-2012, 05:04 PM | #1 |
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2002 Subaru Wrx Wagon with Blouch Evo 3 16G
Car: 2002 Wrx Wagon
Tuner: Brad at Engine Logics Dyno Info: Dyno Dynamics Transmission: 5spd Gear: 3rd (pretty sure) Peak HP at RPM: 270.3 Peak Torque at RPM: 236.5 Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: Unknown Target Boost: unknown Target AFR: unknown Fuel: 93 Octane Engine Mods: Rebuilt Blouch evo III 16g, TGV deletes, 850cc injectors, 38mm tial external wastegate, grimmspeed uppipe, 3" SPT catback, walbro 255 fuel pump, NGK iridiums one step colder spark plugs ,v2 Invidia catless downpipe, Grimmspeed EBCS, samco turbo inlet, JDM v7 STI TMIC with Splitter, port and polish OEM exhaust manifold.
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Last edited by m0nkey; 06-24-2013 at 10:12 PM. |
04-18-2012, 05:10 PM | #2 |
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I think you can get better boost response with that setup, you have some good hardware.
Whats it spool like on the street? |
04-18-2012, 05:15 PM | #3 |
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04-18-2012, 06:53 PM | #4 |
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Anybody else has input on my Dyno graph? This is my first protune.
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04-18-2012, 08:13 PM | #5 |
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Torque seems a bit low but it is very flat and holds for quite a while. For an Evo III the spool is way late! Would like to see a Boost plot for it
Like you said before the Dyno is probley a Heartbreaker but as long as you enjoy it!! Last edited by ppayer38; 04-18-2012 at 08:20 PM. |
04-18-2012, 09:06 PM | #6 | |
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04-18-2012, 10:22 PM | #7 |
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I skipped right over that... haha thanks bud!
Am I correct in seeing that the AFR is around 11.3? Would richening that up to 11.0-10.9 help at all and keep the tune a littel safer? Maybe let him run a little more Timing and get some more out of it while still being safer? Im not a tuner by any means just things ive noticed on these cars... |
04-18-2012, 10:41 PM | #8 |
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You might be right, but I'm no tuner so I left the car in his hands.
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04-18-2012, 11:33 PM | #9 |
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i have a very similar setup on my 04 wrx. my evo 3 spools the same time yours does. also, either the dyno you got tuned on must be a heartbreaker, or mine was incredibly lenient cuz i put down almost 100 more hp than that. i'm getting retuned on monday for 91 octane and i'm not sure what kind of dyno they have but i'll let you know how it compares.
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04-19-2012, 07:43 AM | #10 | |
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E85 I could see 300-325 but not 350 on an Evo III... |
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04-19-2012, 08:33 AM | #11 |
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That power curve is atrocious for that turbo, even on a 2.0L
That dyno HAS to be a heartbreaker, an EVOIII should do 300 on 93 pump no problem on an average reading dyno. Seen it easily a hundred times. That said, if that dyno is a heartbreaker, that's fine, nothing wrong with a lower number on a lower reading dyno. But it should definitely have more down low. |
04-19-2012, 08:38 AM | #12 | |
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The last thing you want is more timing. More boost is always safer than more timing. timing=the number one way people blow up subaru motors. Its not a volume knob for power and there is no place for the word conservative in a sentence about turning up the timing. Unless you went too conservative with timing to begin with, which indicates a tuner that doesnt know wtf they are doing. If the car is tuned properly you shouldnt have to touch the timing if you raise the boost. Just add fuel. I ran the same timing on my bugeye on the 16PSI map that I did on the 22PSI map, with over a 40whp difference, and it lasted years. This was on a VF22, which hit 14.7PSI by just before 3000rpm then RIPPED to 21PSI by 3400-3500. If that EVOIII is spooling much later than that, there is a problem. That said, if he is running 11.3 AFRs, I would bet his tuner knows what he is doing, and there is some other issue that is causing the slow ramp up of low end. *figured out part of the problem, see below* Last edited by Davenow; 04-19-2012 at 08:49 AM. |
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04-19-2012, 08:49 AM | #13 |
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Just noticed the STI TMIC. JDM or not, they are barely an upgrade over the 02-05 WRX tmic. They are SLIGHTLY larger, but still have the same core that flows like garbage.
Get rid of it. Its holding your low end back by a lot. A GOOD bar/plate TMIC will get you spooled a solid 400+rpm sooner, which will make a HUGE night and day difference in how the car drives. It will also REALLY improve throttle response. You can also get another 20whp or so out of the motor without going less conservative (because the cooler air charge will allow A LITTLE more timing, or more boost) (Yes I am aware I JUST spent a good bit of time saying more timing is a no-no. There are variables to it. But IN GENERAL, more timing is a no-no, and I would generally recommend leaving it alone even on the larger intercooler and upping the boost 1.5-2PSI then re-evaluating the datalogs) And by GOOD tmic, I do NOT mean the $98 ebay intercooler that a bunch of nasioc vendors are passing off as their own and selling for 400-500 bucks. You want a TurboXS, MRT, Perrin, APS, any Hyperflow core'd TMIC, or ideally, if you can swing it, a Spearo. The cheap TMICs flow better, but they do a far worse job of cooling and are no better than the STI tmic you wasted your money on. (not trying to be a dick to you, I am a "tough love" kind of guy and dont feel that candy coating things helps anyone) |
04-19-2012, 08:51 AM | #14 |
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ALSO just noticed it was dyno'd in 3rd gear.
Which is the wrong gear for a 5 speed. You need to be in 4th. That is why it ramps up like ****. The motor isnt getting loaded fast enough to really get the turbo cranking. So there may be nothing wrong, in fact, I doubt there is anything wrong, as long as it was indeed dyno'd in 3rd gear (why the hell would he dyno it in 3rd???? 4th has always been the standard). That said, that TMIC is still most definitely killing you. |
04-19-2012, 10:22 AM | #15 |
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Dave.. Instead of quoting each of your posts or combining them im just jsut respond haha.
BTW where do you get your experience from? Tuning yourself or do you have somebody tune your car? I can believe you have been around the Suby world for a while... Dont take offense just wondering! The timing thing I can understand as you should be able to run the same Timing at 22psi as you do 14psi... As long as the timing curve is set for the 22psi map it wont hurt at all to run it on the 14psi map so there I agree. Also agree with the Boost over Timing because it is "safer"(Thats what me & my tuner chose to do). But if I can run 11.0 instead of 11.3 and keep knock away forsure and run a little more timing why not? It goes along with what you said in your 3rd post even though you were talking about denser/colder air being used instead of more fuel it keeps the car a little safer for everyday just incase something randum does happen I have no issues with some of the OS guys that are reputable because most Tuners dont do just 1 system and if they do I more than likely will not use them... I also completely agree with the JDM/STi TMIC, it is a waste of money because for a few hundred more a great TMIC or FMIC can be used with a much better/bigger gain The 5spd's ive seen Dyno'ed on here usually run 3rd but that may just be the "new" thing to do or something. I agree that 4th would give you more load and better response on the turbo but in 3rd my VF43 does better than his EvoIII by hitting full boost at 37xx-38xx and we all know that the EvoIII beats the VF's in every way! Think I covered it all haha But to the OP I would check to see if anything in fact is holding the low end back or figured out what is off in the tune... All I have is VD & Airboy plots of my car but they are almost even @ 5-7 difference bettwen WHP/WTQ in every log/graph I run. I couldnt ask for better and would like to see your car perform to its potential as I know it has some left on the low end. |
04-19-2012, 12:17 PM | #16 | |
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04-19-2012, 12:17 PM | #17 |
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Op, With a very similar setup, 770 cc injectors, hta68, I pulled off almost the exact same numbers on a heartbreaker Mustang dyno. For a heartbreaker dyno those numbers seem about right for a somewhat conservative tune on a bugeye. Also Note how the tuner did not "spike" your boost and then taper it, he was prolly trying to save your tranny by letting the boost come up and hold with very small tapper.
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04-19-2012, 01:24 PM | #18 |
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Agreed...with the 07 6 speed being an exception.
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04-19-2012, 02:34 PM | #19 |
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Thanks guys for the replies. As for the up grade TMIC which one would be the best bang for my buck? While upgrading the Top mount would my v7 splitter and hood scoop do the job? I dont want to go front mount because i will have to cut up my bumper, might loose my fog lights, get a intake, etc.
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04-19-2012, 07:26 PM | #20 |
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If the topmount is too big your splitter may not work. My buddy's bugeye with a hyperflow, has no splitter because the IC sits almost flush with the hood. But he also has the grim speed intake spacers also.
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04-20-2012, 03:21 PM | #21 |
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davenow is spot on about getting a nice bar plate tmic, and how it'll give you more spool and torque.
if you end up getting a difference tmic, you can keep your v7 splitter and fit it with the new one. the seal wont be perfect but you can mcgyver it to be better. if on a budget try to buy a used one in the classifieds. I have a spearco on my td04 bugeye and the before/after was very impressive. The better flow, cooling efficiency, cooling capacity all add up. hyperflow, process west, perrin are supposedly nice too. |
04-23-2012, 02:39 AM | #22 |
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I just bought a hyperflow tmic for a member on here. I Can't wait to see how much power Ill put down.
*** Also I'm getting sputtering once I start boosting but only when i have driven the car for a while. Normal driving and idle is fine but once I start boosting it goes crazy. I changed out my spark plugs with the correct gaping. I just ordered 4 new coilpacks hopefully it will solve my sputtering. I also checked all the hoses where connected to my external wastegate and grimmspeed ebcs*** |
05-07-2013, 09:20 AM | #23 |
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I've read this whole thread and all I get is people saying wrong gear for the dyno. But I want to know why the help so late on full boost? This should outspin the hta68. The compressor wheel in your turbo, is it the 39 lb wheel? That turbo should be hitting full boost from what ive read at like 35oorpm the lastest. Not still spoiling
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05-07-2013, 08:29 PM | #24 |
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Judging spool by a dyno sheet is a lost cause.
Who knows how the dyno was setup for loading. You can configure a Dyno Dynamics or Mustang dyno to load third gear like 5th or load 3rd gear like 1st. If you aren't familiar with this particular dyno, who knows if this is late, early, or just right spool... you're guessing. Even on the street, you'll see different spool based on exhaust setup, intake setup, weight, tire size, transmission / final drive, gear, different definitions of "full boost", the list goes on.... Ultimately you end up with a bunch of people trying to read too much into a single dyno chart. This is probably very normal spool for an EvoIII on this dyno. |
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