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Old 02-11-2019, 07:25 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Subaru to reveal two electrified cars in Geneva Branded E-Boxers




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Subaru will launch two models, powered by an electrified version of its boxer engine, at the Geneva motor show in March.

The two unspecified models, which will be branded as e-boxer machines, will be the firm’s first electrified cars in the European market. While Subaru has yet to reveal which cars they will be fitted to, they are likely to be machines in the current range. It unveiled a Forester Advance Sport Concept, which previewed an STi-tuned version of the SUV with an e-boxer powertrain, at the Tokyo Auto Salon recently.

Subaru’s Boxer longitudinally mounted flat four boxer engine features two rows of pistons mounted flat horizontally opposed to each other, giving the unit a lower centre of gravity. Subaru uses the arrangement because it believes it improves handling, with the opposing pistons reducing engine vibration.

It is not yet known which size of boxer engine Subaru will use for the e-boxer powertrain, or whether the system will be a pure hybrid or a plug-in. The firm’s website refers to the powertrain as ‘hybrid, the Subaru way.’

The firm has previously hinted that a future WRX STi could use a plug-in hybrid powertrain, because increasingly strict emissions regulations would rule out the use of the 2.5-litre turbocharged boxer engine in the most recent model.

While Subaru has not previously sold a hybrid in the UK, it does have experience of the powertrain. In 2013 it launched an XV Hybrid in Japan and the US. That machine mated a 2.0-litre boxer engine with 148bhp mated to a 14bhp electric motor. The firm also launched a plug-in Crosstrek Hybrid in the US last year.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:33 AM   #2
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Quote:
Why Subaru Is Happy to Be Last in Electric Race
A few carmakers are waiting on the sidelines and letting rivals pay for electric R&D.

Kyle StockJune 5, 2018, 6:00 AM EDT
Subaru owners are a green bunch. They tend to bike, camp and kayak more than other drivers and inordinately live in the parts of the U.S. with the toughest emissions mandates. The company plays to this ecological image by producing more than 1 million vehicles each year without sending any waste to landfills. Yet the Subaru set can’t buy a battery-powered version of its favorite car.

Today’s Subarus run exclusively on fossil fuels. Later this year, the company plans to introduce a plug-in hybrid version of its Crosstrek SUV, combining gas engines with electric motors. A fully electric car is still years away.

“If we put one out now, we’re going to be competing in the teeth of the market with everybody else,” Subaru Corp. U.S. Chief Executive Officer Tom Doll explained in an interview. “This way, we can let them kind of sort it out, then we can come in.”

Electro-skeptics

Some automakers are setting a slow pace in the race to electric vehicles.
Source: Bloomberg New Energy Finance
Subaru is among a small group of automakers setting a casual pace in the global race for electric vehicles. Mazda Motor Corp. is on a similarly relaxed timeline—at least two years from introducing a battery-driven motor. Mazda could not be reached for comment, but the company has said the relative efficiency of its gas-powered cars afford it the luxury of moving slowly and deliberately. The far larger Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV currently offers just two vehicles featuring battery technology: the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid minivan and the all-electric Fiat 500e.

These laggards appear content to let other research and development departments perfect the technology while consumer demand slowly merges with accelerating emissions mandates. Demand for electric vehicles outside China is weak, with battery-powered models accounting for only one in 50 or so vehicle sales globally. Battery technology is still expensive, and charging infrastructure is sparse in many parts of the world. Above all, it’s hard to find examples of manufacturers wringing profits from the electric revolution right now.

“I’d rather be last in and get it right”

Slow sales haven’t deterred others from charging into what may prove to be the auto industry’s biggest growth story in decades. Volkswagen AG is in front, with 17 battery-powered models available right now, followed by Bayerische Motoren Werke AG’s 13 plug-in vehicles. Even a more cautious U.S. automaker such as General Motors Co. expects to have 20 all-electric options by 2023, including seven different sport utility vehicles.

A slow roll to electrification can make sense. An automaker gets to save in the near term by allowing rivals to pay for electrification R&D. In a few years, when the costs of batteries have dropped drastically, a latecomer can then try to hammer out deals with the best suppliers and be right back in the electric race.

“That is the bet,” said BNEF analyst Colin McKerracher. “Basically, they think they can wait and see.”

Fiat Chrysler boss Sergio Marchionne went so far as to beg customers to not buy the all-electric 500e, noting in 2015 that his company was taking a $14,000 loss on every one that silently coasts out of a dealership. More recently, he questioned the wisdom of EV production under current circumstances: “I don’t know of a (business) that is making money selling electric vehicles, unless you are selling them at the very, very high end of the spectrum,” Marchionne told a crowd at Detroit’s annual auto show.

The Chrysler Pacifica minivan is one of just two Fiat models now sold with a battery-powered motor.

While skipping the infancy of electric vehicles has advantages, there are risks to being late. Subaru, for instance, could tarnish its halo among the environmentally sensitive drivers now placing hundreds of thousands of reservations for emission-free Teslas. Latecomers also risk missing out on recruiting top electric engineers and establishing vital battery-supply deals.

Battery prices have fallen by 79 percent in the past seven years, a pace that will make electric vehicles cost-competitive with internal combustion cars by 2024, according to BNEF. “Once this happens, things will shift quite quickly,” McKerracher said. “Even now, you’re starting to see more and more automakers say, ‘Yes, we can actually make money on these things.’”

No less a skeptic than Marchionne foresees demand accelerating quickly. He expects that by 2025, more than half of all vehicles sold will be powered, at least in part, by batteries or fuel cells, and he recently gave the green light to build hybrid drivetrains on all models of Ferrari, another company he helms. Fiat is also steering its Maserati brand squarely into Tesla Inc. territory, with plans for a sinuous, all-electric sports car that will zip up to 196 miles per hour.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-electric-race

Subaru's first electric car here within five years

XV EV likely to be the first electric Subaru in Oz

Subaru says it will have an electric SUV within five years, and Australia is right in the target zone.

The Japanese maker has begun its foray into electrification that will show up first with hybrid versions of its Forester and XV crossover before turning to more advanced plug-in and battery-electric vehicles.

During the launch of its fifth-generation Forester SUV this week, Subaru Australia Managing Director Colin Christie explained that EVs form part of Subaru’s near future plan and that the Australian market is primed for one if it’s delivered in the correct fashion.

“The hybrids we are talking about [coming in the next two years] are mild hybrids so not plugins,” he told Drive.

“But fully-electric vehicles, there’s no firm time yet. But Subaru has a very clear plan with what they want to do with electric cars and we would expect them in the not too distant future. We’re not talking ten years and we're not talking two years, somewhere around five years we’ll potentially have fully-electric vehicles.”

Subaru has not detailed its first electric vehicle yet but Christie says the logical choice, as paved by other manufacturers, is to bring an SUV first. But unlike premium brands creating exclusive new models, Christie reckons that creating an EV with a familiar badge is better.

“What I’ve seen from the Australian market is that bringing in an electric vehicle into a known product gets better traction than bringing in a stand-alone product.

“In the next few years we’ll see multi electric vehicles from other manufacturers and that will determine what direction we go.

“So, do you put them in something existing or in a standalone product. I think a lot of that is being debated, what it turns out like.”

It would also appear that the car won’t be a traditional SUV like the Forester and is more likely to be something such as the XV – as first reported by Drive earlier this year.

“No, not a fully electric Forester, fully electric vehicles. We’re still to say what they are.

“I’d expect you’d have an electric SUV and more than likely a small car or something as well, but I think as battery technology improves and ranges get longer and longer [we'll see cars like the Forester go fully-electric].

“There are still a lot of questions that need to be answered for the Australian market but my view, and Subaru’s view is electric vehicles have a place here.”
https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/...e-years-119388

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Old 02-11-2019, 11:10 AM   #3
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"The firm has previously hinted that a future WRX STi could use a plug-in hybrid powertrain, because increasingly strict emissions regulations would rule out the use of the 2.5-litre turbocharged boxer engine in the most recent model."

Buy your STi now before this disaster!!^^^
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:17 AM   #4
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If you think a Hybrid sports car is a disaster, obviously you haven't heard of the NSX, porsche 918, or LaFerrari.

I've heard that there is so much interest in the Crosstrek Plug-in that dealers have rather long waiting lists. Hopefully this e-boxer thing has plenty of range though.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:22 AM   #5
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If you think a Hybrid sports car is a disaster, obviously you haven't heard of the NSX, porsche 918, or LaFerrari.
No one's saying you can't make a hybrid car fast - but none of those are in the STI's price range either. I think the point (i.e. what people are afraid of) is that the freedom to mod goes out the window. How do you swap turbos / injectors / etc and still keep the hybrid stuff working? How many track days before the hybrid stuff breaks?

How many significantly MODDED NSX/918/LaFerrari do you know about?
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:47 AM   #6
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320hp 400tq, dual clutch, with 450miles of range
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:37 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by hadvw View Post
No one's saying you can't make a hybrid car fast - but none of those are in the STI's price range either. I think the point (i.e. what people are afraid of) is that the freedom to mod goes out the window. How do you swap turbos / injectors / etc and still keep the hybrid stuff working? How many track days before the hybrid stuff breaks?

How many significantly MODDED NSX/918/LaFerrari do you know about?



Or you can wonder how to upgrade the capacitors or re-wind the motor or swap batteries....

It's just different tech.



Or I can bitch about those new fangled computers and sensors on your car. A carb'd small block can easily make more power than your fancy computerized iCar.
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:53 PM   #8
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Or you can wonder how to upgrade the capacitors or re-wind the motor or swap batteries....

It's just different tech.
Precisely - it's different tech. It would take years for tuners to relearn it all, start manufacturing replacement batteries, etc.. Plus, it's one more area for a manufacturer to lock things down - max amperage from the batteries, wiring limitations, alternator/generator limitations, etc.

Not impossible, but it's a whole new set of things to learn.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:12 PM   #9
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Why even mod? Want something faster? Go buy something faster.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:15 PM   #10
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Because it's fun?


As for the tuners, they'll adapt or die. Plenty of engineers out there with knowledge, or the abilities to do this today. Just wait until more Teslas come down in price and are out of warranty.... That's the hold back right now, is price of entry to start playing.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
Because it's fun?


As for the tuners, they'll adapt or die. Plenty of engineers out there with knowledge, or the abilities to do this today. Just wait until more Teslas come down in price and are out of warranty.... That's the hold back right now, is price of entry to start playing.
We still need a "like" button. I was just trolling.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:55 PM   #12
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I dunno but this looks crazy fast and fun. I welcome our EV overlords.

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Old 02-11-2019, 08:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
Because it's fun?


As for the tuners, they'll adapt or die. Plenty of engineers out there with knowledge, or the abilities to do this today. Just wait until more Teslas come down in price and are out of warranty.... That's the hold back right now, is price of entry to start playing.
In the year 2033, Teslas will be the new WRX which are the new Honda Civic. Hard-parked, donked-out, bro'd-up, low'd.
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Old 02-13-2019, 05:07 PM   #14
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They Bring a facelift levorg to. Now 2.0l engine no turbo and no turbo and hoodscoop. Had hoped they would Bring the new 1.5and 1.8 dit
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:28 PM   #15
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They Bring a facelift levorg to. Now 2.0l engine no turbo and no turbo and hoodscoop. Had hoped they would Bring the new 1.5and 1.8 dit
Oh no! They took the joy right out of the Levorg!
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:58 PM   #16
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Oh no! They took the USA right out of the Levorg!
So sayeth the Doll Dictionary.
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Old 02-14-2019, 12:02 PM   #17
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Oh no! They took the joy right out of the Levorg!
at least in Europe there wasn´t that much joy with a 1.6 ltr turbo and CVT
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Old 02-14-2019, 12:14 PM   #18
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They Bring a facelift levorg to. Now 2.0l engine no turbo and no turbo and hoodscoop. Had hoped they would Bring the new 1.5and 1.8 dit
Where did you hear this? I did find this:

http://www.carglancer.com/subaru-hyb...-reach-europe/

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Apart from hybrid premieres, the updated Subaru Levorg wagon with a new 2.0-liter gasoline engine will be introduced in Geneva.
Should be interesting.
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:05 PM   #19
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IMO Hybrid is dumb.. just put out a full electric Hatch WRX trim with 220 mile range and see how it sells.. if it sells good make a STI full electric trim and make a cheaper XV/Impreza trims. Starting with the WRX is perfect because it is in the neighborhood of other full electrics price wise (assuming the tax break). If it offers a faster 0-60 and 0-80 than current WRX with similar handling people will buy it... at least I would.

Hybrids just waste too much space and weight. Take out the engine, transmission, gas tank, exhaust and you get a lot of battery room. Hopefully the hood scoop could stay with a radiator for battery cooling or something.
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Old 02-14-2019, 02:33 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
Where did you hear this? I did find this:

http://www.carglancer.com/subaru-hyb...-reach-europe/



Should be interesting.
will the levorg they reveal show the new wrx face
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Old 02-14-2019, 02:47 PM   #21
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will the levorg they reveal show the new wrx face
Levorg came out later, so it's probably the current Levorg.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:49 PM   #22
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I don't see the point of hybrids unless it's the trick hybrids in cars like the NSX where it's focused on performance. Most hybrid buyers never make the money back on fuel savings to cover the premium they spent over a standard gasoline engine model which is why a lot of them don't sell. Seems like R&D money would be better spent on full electric models.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:16 PM   #23
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In the year 2033, Teslas will be the new WRX which are the new Honda Civic. Hard-parked, donked-out, bro'd-up, low'd.
nope, in 2033 barely any teslas on the road today will still be running if any... When tech goes obsolete you throw it away. How many Iphone4's are their still in use. Every electrical car today is disposable. What will happen is people will start to put small blocks in Teslas. Mark my words on that.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:17 PM   #24
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How many significantly MODDED NSX/918/LaFerrari do you know about?
Bisimoto Engineering built a CRZ that made 500+ whp and still got 38mpg highway by keeping it's hybrid features.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:26 PM   #25
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nope, in 2033 barely any teslas on the road today will still be running if any... When tech goes obsolete you throw it away. How many Iphone4's are their still in use. Every electrical car today is disposable. What will happen is people will start to put small blocks in Teslas. Mark my words on that.
There's darkness in your heart. Let it out.
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