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Old 10-22-2019, 10:12 AM   #1
vlad11591
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Default Maperformance Stage 1 OTS 18+ STI

So I did a quick search and nothing came up for this. Checked MAP's IG and they just recently released a stage 1 91/93 octane OTS map for 18+ STI.

I've been reading that still keeps the SI-drive so throttle response changes as you change modes, which is why I didn't do COBB because it gets rid of all that.

I reallllly liked the MAP OTS on my WRX, so on the STI hoping I should have the same.

Has anyone ran this tune yet? I know it's relatively new (3-4 months?)
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Old 10-22-2019, 02:58 PM   #2
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no love for MAPerformance?
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Old 10-23-2019, 05:26 PM   #3
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MAPerformance doesn't seem to be quite as popular with the STI EJ crowd.

Most reviews that I've seen prefer MAP's OTS tune over Cobb's. Supposedly it retains the throttle mapping in the drive modes. I've seen a few people also claim that it makes more power and yields better fuel economy compared to Cobb's.

My guess is that Cobb's tune is a bit more conservative and runs richer to provide a higher safety margin for reliability and user error.

MAP's stage 1 OTS tune is only $75 so it's probably worth a try if you already have an AP. You could do back-to-back datalogs with it and Cobb's stage 1 so we can compare the results

I seriously doubt that you'll see the claimed 25+ whp gains over Cobb stage 1 on a mechanically stock car.. especially with how good the factory tune already is on the 19+ STI.

MAP's dyno comparison of Cobb's tune certainly looks "interesting".. missing data and the huge dip at 6,000 rpm..



Cobb's stock vs stage 1 comparison for the 19+ STI is much more realistic.. good mid-range gains with little up top since the stock tune is already pretty good.



Even looking at Cobb's stage 2, you can see that there's little to be gained in the upper RPM range. Cobb gains nothing by honestly admitting this..




My guess is that MAPerformance offers a good, or even great, product.. their marketing just seems a bit extreme.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 10-23-2019 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 10-23-2019, 05:37 PM   #4
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Cobb stated this regarding the Type RA/19+ STI tunes:
Quote:
COBB Tuning Subaru WRX STI Type RA Accessport and Parts
The Type RA is loaded with a much more aggressive tune than we are used to seeing from Subaru. In fact, on ACN91 octane fuel the car was seeing enough knock to shut off the boost control system completely. Using higher quality fuel (93 Octane) we did see much more consistent power out of the Type RA however it is still leaning fairly hard on the knock detection system with hits of 4 degrees seen relatively consistently. With that said, our internal calibration team was still able to find a bit of power, specifically in the mid-range, which can be realized in our Stage 1 Off The Shelf Maps. By using a different tuning strategy, we were also able to mitigate the concerning levels of knock. This makes for noticeable gains and peace of mind, especially for those using ACN91 fuel.

The factory calibration essentially starts with higher base timing values and the knock system rarely allows it to fully take advantage of dynamic advance. Our calibrations will start at a slightly lower base value with a higher allowance of dynamic advance. Its not necessarily disastrous for longevity as the knock correction system is indeed doing its job. Our approach is to not lean on that system as hard as the factory calibration does.
The video below talks about the OEM tune being more aggressive on the '18 STI than previous years. They mention the OEM tune leaning out in higher RPMs (above 5,400rpm) and pulling timing. Cobb's map runs a bit richer to avoid this. This should apply the 19+ as well.

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Old 10-23-2019, 07:12 PM   #5
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The charts are definitely skewed. Stock STI's i've seen have dynoed at 220-225 whp. If the stock is showing 238 on their dyno, that has to be a high reading dyno.

I'm not chasing power numbers. The primary reason to run the tune is because it's hard to drive this car in a commute with the touchy throttle. On my previous WRX i ran Cobb STg1 vs MAP to see the difference, and even on my previous WRX, i saw a difference. MAP is definitely more aggressive and more lean up top, and COBBs tune was always more rich. MAP just feels like more power and feels more linear.

I bought the tune earlier today anyway so i should have it sometime tomorrow. I can try and post stock/cobb/map, logs to compare, but it's tough to find straight roads with no trouble
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Old 10-25-2019, 09:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad11591 View Post
So I did a quick search and nothing came up for this. Checked MAP's IG and they just recently released a stage 1 91/93 octane OTS map for 18+ STI.

I've been reading that still keeps the SI-drive so throttle response changes as you change modes, which is why I didn't do COBB because it gets rid of all that.

I reallllly liked the MAP OTS on my WRX, so on the STI hoping I should have the same.

Has anyone ran this tune yet? I know it's relatively new (3-4 months?)
I ran the MAP OTS on my WRX as well, and decided to try the MAP tune on my '18 STI. In early June I contacted MAP about the '18 STI tune after purchasing [my second] AP from them. They agreed to send me a 'beta' version to test. I ran the tune for 3k miles until I went 20g with flex fuel, downpipe, ELH etc.

I definitely prefer the MAP tune over the Cobb tune specifically due to throttle response. The MAP tune in S# feels like the stock tune in S, whereas the Cobb tune feels less responsive than "I" mode. There was no perceptible increase in power over stock via the butt dyno. I experienced minor knock, but nothing to be worried about (-0.7, -1.40, and a rare -2.4 occasionally). No DAM drop. Fuel economy seemed about the same as stock, definitely not worse.

Overall I would say the MAP tune is a good choice if you are just running an AP with no power mods (I ran a catback and AOS). If/when you get a downpipe/intake or whatever, I would recommend a pro tune (dyno/e-tune).
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Old 10-25-2019, 09:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonestocksti View Post
I ran the MAP OTS on my WRX as well, and decided to try the MAP tune on my '18 STI. In early June I contacted MAP about the '18 STI tune after purchasing [my second] AP from them. They agreed to send me a 'beta' version to test. I ran the tune for 3k miles until I went 20g with flex fuel, downpipe, ELH etc.

I definitely prefer the MAP tune over the Cobb tune specifically due to throttle response. The MAP tune in S# feels like the stock tune in S, whereas the Cobb tune feels less responsive than "I" mode. There was no perceptible increase in power over stock via the butt dyno. I experienced minor knock, but nothing to be worried about (-0.7, -1.40, and a rare -2.4 occasionally). No DAM drop. Fuel economy seemed about the same as stock, definitely not worse.

Overall I would say the MAP tune is a good choice if you are just running an AP with no power mods (I ran a catback and AOS). If/when you get a downpipe/intake or whatever, I would recommend a pro tune (dyno/e-tune).
Yea I know it's not going to be a huge boost in power but it seems to help out top end, and make it more drivable as a daily. That's really all I want.. and a nice linear pull to 6k
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Old 10-25-2019, 12:38 PM   #8
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The biggest gains will be in the mid-range from 3k-5k rpm. It may actually feel less linear afterwards since the torque curve is no longer flat and still drops off hard after 5k rpm.

Below is a Type RA stock baseline vs dyno tune on California's 91 knoctane blend

https://i.imgur.com/H2s6Guo.jpg

I believe this was Kostamojen's Type RA. His results match the gains shown on Cobb's Stage 1 map.
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:11 PM   #9
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^^i assume the Type RA and 2019+ STI all dyno the same at around 270-290 HP/TQ
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Old 10-25-2019, 09:42 PM   #10
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in the video that nick posted, that 18 dynoed at 225 i believe. I don't think stock they're dynoing that high.

I have a chromebook, so i have to borrow a friends laptop to download AP manager and then i'll have logs soon with the tunes.
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Old 10-26-2019, 08:16 PM   #11
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I've been running their OTS tune for a year now. The throttle response is much more linear then stock and the drive mods are preserved. I didn't run the Cobb map long to compare though. DAM has never dropped and I don't have any significant knock. Overall I like the driveability a lot and the power is smooth all the way to redline.
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:31 AM   #12
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Finally got around to doing my first oil change, and putting on the tune....

The throttle response takes a bit of getting used to. Sport mode seemed like my car was lagging at first, but quickly realized that you just have to give it a bit more gas in first. It did actually help prevent me riding out the clutch, and it was SOOO much better in city driving. No exaggeration, night and day.... I didn't mess around with I mode.

S# car feels great, and is still great for daily driving. The bigger advantages to these tunes is the linear feeling., and that is exactly what you get. You really have to push your pedal to the floor to feel the power, which is exactly what I wanted. When you go WOT it pulls all the way to redline with no flat spots, and doesn't really drop off hard like the stock tune. You lose aggressive torque curve in the early RPM's but better top end.

MPG seems to be better. I've driven it pretty aggressively, and I'm at 160 miles at the halfway point. Usually i'll get around 270-280 miles before next fill. Following this logic, I should be around 300 if I drive the rest of the time semi conservative.
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:45 AM   #13
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Thanks for the review.

Would you say that the throttle mapping is different between Sport and Sport# like it is with the stock tune? or is the Sport# tune just more aggressive with timing and boost?

What boost level are you hitting with the MAPerformance tune?

I know the OEM tune's throttle mapping is mostly a gimmick to make the car feel faster at part throttle, but I enjoy it and was hoping the MAP tune retained it to some extent.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Thanks for the review.

Would you say that the throttle mapping is different between Sport and Sport# like it is with the stock tune? or is the Sport# tune just more aggressive with timing and boost?

What boost level are you hitting with the MAPerformance tune?

I know the OEM tune's throttle mapping is mostly a gimmick to make the car feel faster at part throttle, but I enjoy it and was hoping the MAP tune retained it to some extent.
Yea, it's definitely different, but not as drastic as a difference with the OEM sport vs sport #. Map does not really retain that ridiculous torque you feel in the OEM S#, but it still feels quick. You really do have to mash the pedal to the floor in 1st to 2nd to feel the torque. I have to check with the boost levels. Assuming OEM I was hitting 18 lbs in S#, I don't see why this wouldn't be the same.

All in all, pretty happy with it.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:56 PM   #15
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Thanks, that's surprising since many have said the MAP tune was much better than Cobb in terms of the drive modes.. I'm sure the improved fuel economy will quickly offset the cost of the tune.

I'm considering purchasing the MAPerformance stage 1 tune and doing a comparison with the Cobb tune. I have an isolated location near me where I can safely do 3rd gear pulls to compare the OEM, Cobb, and MAP tunes.

The other part of me just wants to buy a downpipe & Cobb flex fuel kit and get a dyno tune
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Old 11-05-2019, 05:53 PM   #16
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do it Nick! that way i can decide which route to go! haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Thanks, that's surprising since many have said the MAP tune was much better than Cobb in terms of the drive modes.. I'm sure the improved fuel economy will quickly offset the cost of the tune.

I'm considering purchasing the MAPerformance stage 1 tune and doing a comparison with the Cobb tune. I have an isolated location near me where I can safely do 3rd gear pulls to compare the OEM, Cobb, and MAP tunes.

The other part of me just wants to buy a downpipe & Cobb flex fuel kit and get a dyno tune
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:14 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Thanks, that's surprising since many have said the MAP tune was much better than Cobb in terms of the drive modes.. I'm sure the improved fuel economy will quickly offset the cost of the tune.

I'm considering purchasing the MAPerformance stage 1 tune and doing a comparison with the Cobb tune. I have an isolated location near me where I can safely do 3rd gear pulls to compare the OEM, Cobb, and MAP tunes.

The other part of me just wants to buy a downpipe & Cobb flex fuel kit and get a dyno tune
Yea the COBB tune does not retain drive modes but the MAP one does. I think I got it for 60$ since I bought a tune off them before. That's basically close to what I pay to fill up depending on fluctuating gas prices.

I would say get the MAP one, as it's cheap, and a pretty good improvement over stock. I really didn't push it all that hard in S# 1-2 gear so it could be the same as OEM S#. 3rd gear feels quicker though for sure on the MAP tune.

This is the beta version, so they may have a revision in the near future.
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Old 11-06-2019, 11:28 AM   #18
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This is the beta version, so they may have a revision in the near future.
Good to know. I may inquire to see if they plan on any future revisions.

The improved fuel economy alone is certainly tempting since my work commute is ~50 miles round trip. My driving is at least 80% highway. I average ~22-23 mpg with up to 24-25 mpg on the highway.

Surprisingly, the mpg display actually reads 1-2% low after tracking 5 tanks. I've been getting ~290-300 miles out of ~13 gallons.

It's a far cry from what I was getting in my '16 WRX. I averaged 23-24 mpg even on E60
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Old 11-10-2019, 03:29 AM   #19
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So guys I'm curious if the tune you are talking about is for the 19+ STI or the 18+? MAP has had an OTS out for the 18s for at least a year but there are references in this thread to betas this year. I don't see anything new updated on MAPs site so just looking for some clarification.

Thanks!
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Old 11-11-2019, 03:31 PM   #20
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I inquired about the throttle mapping retention for the different drive modes, or rather the lack of. This was MAP's response:

"Our OTS tune will be very similar to most OTS tunes and unfortunately will not retain the difference in throttle response."
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Old 11-11-2019, 07:39 PM   #21
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interesting, I've been debating whether or not to get the MAP tune. The throttle input mapping being retained was definitely a plus. I guess I'll wait and see if someone comes out with an OTS tune that incorporates them.
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Old 11-12-2019, 03:59 PM   #22
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So guys I'm curious if the tune you are talking about is for the 19+ STI or the 18+? MAP has had an OTS out for the 18s for at least a year but there are references in this thread to betas this year. I don't see anything new updated on MAPs site so just looking for some clarification.

Thanks!
These are specific to the 19+. These are beta for this year. Not sure if it's on the website yet, but you would have to contact MAPerformance directly through nasioc or the website for quotes on the tune and specific octane. My OTS says 19+ 93 OTS so it's definitely for the 19.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
I inquired about the throttle mapping retention for the different drive modes, or rather the lack of. This was MAP's response:

"Our OTS tune will be very similar to most OTS tunes and unfortunately will not retain the difference in throttle response."
I spoke with someone over email, but they mentioned that the throttle response would be retained. I use this tune daily and it definitely is retained. S# is different than S, as it is with I.
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:47 PM   #23
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If you want best bang for buck and have access to 93oct get a downpipe and Cobb Stage 2. Leave everything else stock. Totally worth it and it's only a minor intrusion.

I say don't bother with anything Stage 1 unless it's a customized tune...

If you don't have access to 93oct and don't mind more intrusive mods then do a downpipe + other parts (recommendations vary depending on tuner) and a custom tune.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:41 AM   #24
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If you want best bang for buck and have access to 93oct get a downpipe and Cobb Stage 2. Leave everything else stock. Totally worth it and it's only a minor intrusion.

I say don't bother with anything Stage 1 unless it's a customized tune...

If you don't have access to 93oct and don't mind more intrusive mods then do a downpipe + other parts (recommendations vary depending on tuner) and a custom tune.
That's funny I would think exact opposite.

Custom tune with anything other than catback. The OTS maps stage 1 really don't seem all that harmful, and are semi conservative. (cobb/Map) Really just meant to smooth out power band, and better drivability.

To each their own though.
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:55 AM   #25
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There'll be little difference between a stage 1 OTS tune and a custom "pro-tune".

I was chatting with my local Subaru tuner and he pretty much said it would be a waste of money to have him tune it.. Cobb's tune is a bit on the rich & conservative side, so he could lean it out, bump the torque, and improve fuel economy a bit more. (This is in reference to California's 91, there are probably more gains to be had on 93)

The factory tune on the 19+ STI has improved a lot compared to previous years. I have a hard time justifying a stage 1 tune and risking warranty hassles because of it. If I'm going to risk it then I may as well start adding more parts

I enjoy the factory drive mode settings, so I'd mostly go stage 1 for the improved fuel economy
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